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- August 12th, 2007, 10:51 AM #101
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Hey Rehan, the advice you are giving is really helpful. I am a third yr MBBS student at Army Medical College and quite frankly there is no precedence of going abroad for a residency in our college, a fact that is very demoralising for me. The first and foremost problem that i am facing is that our summer vacations are way too short ( 4 wks) and badly placed ( mid june to mid july) to be able to enroll in some good elective program. Also do you think that doing some elective or research work here in pakistan would help me in procuring an elective abroad. Finally could you plz tell me which clg you are from?
Last edited by alimehdi; August 12th, 2007 at 11:02 AM.August 12th, 2007, 01:41 PM #102
Read the rest of the thread to learn about how to get an elective abroad, it's all been mentioned.
I go to Shifa College of Medicine and we also get only three weeks off for a summer break, but I take three weeks extra and make it into a 6 week break so that I can do an elective. When I come back, I have to make everything up that I missed, but it's the only way. You have to do the same.
Electives in Pakistan won't count for anything in any country except Pakistan.August 14th, 2007, 07:58 AM #103
alimehdi, MastahRiz is correct.
Arrange ahead of time to take some extra time off and try to do a minimum of 6 weeks as anything shorter will end up not being very productive.
I go to Shifa College of Medicine as well.
I agree that research done in Pakistan will not be very beneficial to your resume if you plan to apply for post-graduate training abroad.August 16th, 2007, 12:52 AM #104
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It was really helpful in reading your email regarding getting electives. But I guess that is for the medical student. I am an international medical graduate from Pakistan, and I am here in US for the USMLE exams. I have been told to take up observership in US, but I am having a very hard time in finding one. I have sent maybe a 100 emails to different institutions with no reply. I will continue trying out that, but do you have clue as to which istitutes will be helpful in giving me observerships??August 16th, 2007, 09:51 AM #105August 24th, 2007, 12:28 AM #106
I have been accepted for research electives (clinical research) at John Hopkins in the Department of Orthopedics and I also got accepted for clinical electives at UT Southwestern (currently ranked 18th in US) in the Department of Cardiology, both for the next year. I won’t be able to spend more than 6 weeks there because at that time I will be in my final year and it will be impossible to go there again before the completion of my final year. I personally think that clinical electives would be more fruitful from the residency point of view as the letter of Recommendations that I get will speak more about my clinical skills. What are your thoughts on that? Which would be more valuable, Research or clinical electives?
I also would like to say that everyone here says that only research work done in US would be of value. I think if you do a research (under supervision of a senior doctor who has been involved in research work) and then get it published in a peer reviewed journal (or at least an indexed journal) even in Pakistan, it does count. Surely not as much valuable as research work done in US but definitely a lot more than what we think of.August 24th, 2007, 09:10 PM #107
You're also right that research anywhere is better than no research at all, but research in Pakistan will only make your residency application better than other Pakistani graduates, not bring you into a competitive tier of American graduates as well, whereas enough research in American universities just might.
Congrats on the elective acceptance.September 18th, 2007, 10:54 PM #108
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iam a 3rd yr student at dow university khi,pakistan.im working on my application for research electives at john hokins.i plan to go in dec this yr.iv been mailing professors for the past weeks with minimum reply and even those i did are unavailable.i have been mailing doctors in cardiology gen surgery n peds.have even tried callin some but its really hard to get hold of them..should i just submit my application with these prefernces that sum1 mite accpet me or should i go for field tht is easier to get into?or should i try for electives in other hospitals??are private research centres good?im sorry if im repeating sum questions...September 19th, 2007, 03:16 AM #109
You should never limit yourself by only applying to one hospital. Just because Johns Hopkins has such a good reputation doesn't mean it's the only school out there for you to apply to. I think a lot of people who read this thread make that mistake. There are tons of other schools you should be applying to. To get a list of them, google the US top hospitals and apply to all of those schools anywhere on the top fifty or even top hundred.
If you don't get a response then there's not much you can do and yes, you should just send in your application anyway and hope for the best.
Private research centers probably aren't as good of an idea as centers that are actually affiliated with a university. Not sure if that's what you meant, but you should always try to get an elective at a center affiliated with an actual university in the US.October 15th, 2007, 06:28 PM #110
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dr. rehan thanks a lot for your help...October 19th, 2007, 12:18 AM #111
finally! it took me almost 2 hrs to read this whole thread! and i apologize if im going to repeat a few questions but ill try to do that as little as possible.
1stly Rehan and MastahRiz you ppl did an excellent job in helping everyone out. i hope it works out for everyone. here go my questions in response to Rehans post:
1.which yr of med school did you do your elective in?
2.how long prior to your elective did you apply?
3.you still havent named the other hospital you visited. if this was supposed to be your research electives,were you gonna do ur clinical electives at the other hospital?
4.are you still a medical student or doing your residency now?
5.wat did it say on your LOR? research or clinical?
6.if its purely a research elective and you dont even get to go on rounds, is it still worth it? what exactly do u do in a research elective?
7.if you do extra stuff and help them out which isnt a part of ur elective program, do you pursue them to give you a document about it otherwise wats the point?
8.and since im interested in surgery is it wise to pursue that in USA because i dont have any preferences or should i just start from some other country?
ok thats it. i hope u can give me answers. and im currently in 4th yr. i did 2 clinical electives this yr but i havent done anythin abroad.October 19th, 2007, 03:43 AM #112
You can do a research elective as early as your second year of mbbs. It may be possible to even do one in first year, but I don't know anyone who has done it, or if I would recommend it.
You need to apply for an elective at least four to six months in advance.
Yes, you should still do the elective even if it is purely a research elective, assuming that you don't have any other acceptances where you might be able to do more. In a research elective you usually do a lot of lab work or possibly animal testing.
I really don't know what you mean with question 7... what kind of extra stuff?
You can pursue surgery in the US but it'll be very difficult and there's a good chance that you won't get accepted without getting more experience first, but in the end it's always possible.November 12th, 2007, 04:55 PM #113
You mentioned you might not recommend doing a research elective after first year. What are the cons?
Also, I was generally looking at the eligibility requirements for electives in US universities and from the ones that I've seen it says the students must be in their final year. Am I just looking at the wrong ones?Rishtya Meena
Shifa College of MedicineNovember 12th, 2007, 05:33 PM #114
I wouldn't recommend going for a research elective until the middle or end of second year because simply put, you barely learn anything in first year. They've made the curriculum very relaxed for first years compared to what it used to be just two or three years ago. The course work has been cut nearly in half. You won't have finished learning any of the "basic sciences," which include both the first and second year. The classes are the same for the first two years, and include anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, embryology, and histology. By the time you finish your first year, you might know the anatomy of the upper limb, but not the abdomen, you may know the physiology of the heart, but not the endocrine system, etc. Once you've finished the first two years, then you have the knowledge of everything about the human body, including how, what, where, everything occurs- that's why they're called basic sciences. All the clinical information will come after that, because you can't learn what's abnormal before you know what's normal.
If you go for any type of elective right after first year, you'll really just end up making a fool out of yourself. You will get asked questions to see how much you know, and knowing less than half of basic sciences will hardly make you look like a medical student.
Electives are learning opportunities, but one of the main reasons people go for electives is to impress the doctors they'll work with, so that they can get a letter of recommendation or some other sort of help along the way. By the end of first year, most Pakistani medical students aren't even 20 years old, nor have they done any undergraduate degree, unlike all American medical students, who have at least one bachelors degree before starting med school.
You'll feel like a kid, and really be seen as one, too.
As for the requirements, what's written on a website and what actually is in play at some of these universities can be very different. For clinical electives though, yes, you have to be in your final year.
The requirements posted on websites are usually for clinical electives. Requirements for research electives are generally more lax, and often not even posted, because a lot of places have few, or no requirements at all.November 12th, 2007, 05:54 PM #115
Thanks, that really put the concept of electives into perspective.
Makes a lot more sense now.Rishtya Meena
Shifa College of MedicineNovember 17th, 2007, 01:43 AM #116
thje information u r gvng here z so much useful and beneficial...well m a student of 4th yr here in pk n wanna do my electives in medicine subfield endocrinology...can u guide me ??wt to do???
ofcourse after knwn ur expereince in JHU, my first priority will be this university....n also rehan most of important z what ll be the total cost of doin an elective???
What is students security number?how can we get it?
Last edited by MastahRiz; November 17th, 2007 at 01:26 PM. Reason: merged posts.November 17th, 2007, 01:59 PM #117
Asking for generic advice like 'please guide me' doesn't tell us at all how to help you. The entire process has already been covered and you should read it over carefully, but I will however, take a shot at your more specific questions.
First of all, just because Johns Hopkins is the university mentioned here in the thread, it doesn't mean that this is the only hospital that you have a chance of getting an elective at. There are lots of hospitals in the US that will accept you for clinical electives or research electives.
You can find that list here:
Secondly, when you start applying for electives, make sure you're filling out an application which is for foreign medical students, not local US students. A social security number is something that only US citizens will have, which means you're probably filling out the wrong application. Most schools have a separate application for foreign/ overseas medical students.
The total cost including (variable) will come out to near or around 3,000 US dollars (180,000 Rupees). This includes:
Cost of travel
Cost of tuituin @ elective
Health Insurance + Malpractice Insurance
MealsNovember 17th, 2007, 02:31 PM #118
Although the members and moderators at Med Studentz do try to help each other out whenever possible, they should not be seen as an easy substitute for researching and finding answers on your own.
If you have a question regarding a specific university, you should contact the offices of that university rather than ask your question on this message board.
Another point, and this isn't only directed towards you but if you are asking for help on this message board, write your message in a manner that reflects positively upon yourself if you want to be taken seriously.
The way you wrote your question and the blatant disregard you've shown in your spelling and grammar makes people not take you seriously, much less with any modicum of professionalism. So please, try to write in a professional and proper manner on here, and you will find people will take you and your questions seriously.
As for your question, MastahRiz seems to have already answered it -- if you have any other questions specific to Johns Hopkins University -- go to their website and e-mail their Office of the Registrar. If you have other specific questions about being a Pakistani student and doing a research/clinical elective abroad, feel free to ask them here.
Best of luck in your career.November 25th, 2007, 05:42 PM #119
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What's an observership?
And isnt anyone here who's done electives abroad other than America? Like England or Canada?November 25th, 2007, 06:09 PM #120
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