# Court Hearing 2 Dec 2016



## scooby (Nov 26, 2016)

anyone know about todays hearing regarding pmdc and CIP ?


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## muggle98 (Nov 3, 2016)

honestly when will this whole drama end??? its so frustrating


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## Asad3497 (Oct 3, 2016)

scooby said:


> anyone know about todays hearing regarding pmdc and CIP ?





muggle98 said:


> honestly when will this whole drama end??? its so frustrating


Try reading the IMDC thread. I posted about our sudden summon to college and what PMDC actually is asking from colleges.


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## Asad3497 (Oct 3, 2016)

Page 4,
http://medstudentz.com/#/forumsite/20686/topics/29346?page=4


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## Asad3497 (Oct 3, 2016)

And no refunds either.


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## MomenGill (Jul 18, 2016)

PMDC asked private colleges to write on affidavit that they will not challenge implementation of CIP for next year and then PMDC would relax the policy for this year 
To which the private colleges refused , so i am pretty sure the case is against PMDC at this point or they wouldn't have offered this deal , so take classes if the college has invited you , i have been going to IMC , Faisalabad for 14 days now , and they are confident that the CIP will not be implemented at all , or they wouldn't have rejected this deal


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## scooby (Nov 26, 2016)

MomenGill said:


> PMDC asked private colleges to write on affidavit that they will not challenge implementation of CIP for next year and then PMDC would relax the policy for this year
> To which the private colleges refused , so i am pretty sure the case is against PMDC at this point or they wouldn't have offered this deal , so take classes if the college has invited you , i have been going to IMC , Faisalabad for 14 days now , and they are confident that the CIP will not be implemented at all , or they wouldn't have rejected this deal



S.E.X.Y

- - - Updated - - -

anyone else know what happen today at Lahore High Court?


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## MomenGill (Jul 18, 2016)

scooby said:


> S.E.X.Y
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> anyone else know what happen today at Lahore High Court?


delayed until monday [i'm not confirmed but 2 out my 5 sources said this just now]
and proof of what i said earlier http://imgur.com/tlMSHjM


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## scooby (Nov 26, 2016)

all that will happen now is CIP will be implemented this year because now the judge will think pvt colleges are guilty and trying to run from pmdc and the judge will know its not just about this year.

i wonder what cmh has done and why their list is still not up.


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## Asad3497 (Oct 3, 2016)

scooby said:


> all that will happen now is CIP will be implemented this year because now the judge will think pvt colleges are guilty and trying to run from pmdc and the judge will know its not just about this year.
> 
> i wonder what cmh has done and why their list is still not up.


Actually, PMDC offering this solution (delaying to next year) after rejecting the same offer by colleges before, proves that they are trying to hang onto the last shreds of their ego. 
I wanna kill someone now. I have never drunk so much coffee tea or consumed the vast amounts of relaxants I have done due to this bull shi*


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## MomenGill (Jul 18, 2016)

Asad3497 said:


> Actually, PMDC offering this solution (delaying to next year) after rejecting the same offer by colleges before, proves that they are trying to hang onto the last shreds of their ego.
> I wanna kill someone now. I have never drunk so much coffee tea or consumed the vast amounts of relaxants I have done due to this bull shi*


Exactly , first of all PMDC cannot micro manage private colleges , and now they are just saving their ego because they did the wrong thing at the wrong time and ofcourse admitting your mistake is a phenomenon unfamiliar to most of us


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## Hussainraza1499 (Sep 1, 2016)

Lahore high Court postponed the hearing to Monday...for CIP


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## Alinasir (Nov 4, 2016)

what about SAT?


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## Asad3497 (Oct 3, 2016)

Hussainraza1499 said:


> Lahore high Court postponed the hearing to Monday...for CIP



Uh....WRONG! (That's the little Trump in me speaking out to your Hillary) 
Your info is wrong. The delay is coming since none of the parties is backing down and the court knows it is stuck. 
In one side, is the private colleges which are winning and have a positive evidences to win smoothly and easily. 
On the other, is the M'er F'ers, CM, PMDC, in short, the government. So, they can't just say a big fat NO!
So they are waiting for one side to let go, which is probably going to be PMDC due to their resurgence of the offer. 




Alinasir said:


> what about SAT?


Currently, no one cares. It's just about who wins.


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## MomenGill (Jul 18, 2016)

at this point , it is safe to say , that PMDC has lost but i really do hope nothing goes wrong here because after all this is _Pakistan _​, fingers crossed


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## Annie144101 (Nov 27, 2016)

Asad3497 said:


> Hussainraza1499 said:
> 
> 
> > Lahore high Court postponed the hearing to Monday...for CIP
> ...


Will they display the merit list tomorrow?


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## scooby (Nov 26, 2016)

you guys are so wrong.

in every court case the judge prefers for a settlement. so one party offers the other party an offer. if the party rejects that offer then the judge's verdict must be accepted even if it is harsher.

The fact that private colleges rejected an offer made by pmdc gods to show a war like mindset in the heads of pvt colleges. PMDC will never back down now because it just got personal. The pvt colleges never wanted CIP or lower its fees.


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## 123sana (Sep 1, 2016)

Exactly! 
And the decision could favour pmdc now because pvt colleges are not ready to cooperate 


scooby said:


> you guys are so wrong.
> 
> in every court case the judge prefers for a settlement. so one party offers the other party an offer. if the party rejects that offer then the judge's verdict must be accepted even if it is harsher.
> 
> The fact that private colleges rejected an offer made by pmdc gods to show a war like mindset in the heads of pvt colleges. PMDC will never back down now because it just got personal. The pvt colleges never wanted CIP or lower its fees.


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## scooby (Nov 26, 2016)

The court decisions have always been harsher than a settlement offer present by the other party. In other words the judge has always given relief that is lesser in magnitude than the settlement offer given by the respondent side.

The fact that the judge has called the attorney general for help, summoned admissions record from pvt colleges, and asked pmdc counsel if action against pvt colleges was taken for violating 2013 policy by starting admissions before oct 31, this all goes to show that a bomb is gonna be dropped soon


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## Shady (Oct 5, 2016)

scooby said:


> The court decisions have always been harsher than a settlement offer present by the other party. In other words the judge has always given relief that is lesser in magnitude than the settlement offer given by the respondent side.
> 
> The fact that the judge has called the attorney general for help, summoned admissions record from pvt colleges, and asked pmdc counsel if action against pvt colleges was taken for violating 2013 policy by starting admissions before oct 31, this all goes to show that a bomb is gonna be dropped soon


Exactly, bud!
Not everyone here says what he/she wants to happen. Some people consider facts and figures too.


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## Asad3497 (Oct 3, 2016)

scooby said:


> you guys are so wrong.
> 
> in every court case the judge prefers for a settlement. so one party offers the other party an offer. if the party rejects that offer then the judge's verdict must be accepted even if it is harsher.
> 
> The fact that private colleges rejected an offer made by pmdc gods to show a war like mindset in the heads of pvt colleges. PMDC will never back down now because it just got personal. The pvt colleges never wanted CIP or lower its fees.





123sana said:


> Exactly!
> And the decision could favour pmdc now because pvt colleges are not ready to cooperate
> 
> 
> ...





scooby said:


> The court decisions have always been harsher than a settlement offer present by the other party. In other words the judge has always given relief that is lesser in magnitude than the settlement offer given by the respondent side.
> 
> The fact that the judge has called the attorney general for help, summoned admissions record from pvt colleges, and asked pmdc counsel if action against pvt colleges was taken for violating 2013 policy by starting admissions before oct 31, this all goes to show that a bomb is gonna be dropped soon





Shady said:


> scooby said:
> 
> 
> > The court decisions have always been harsher than a settlement offer present by the other party. In other words the judge has always given relief that is lesser in magnitude than the settlement offer given by the respondent side.
> ...


Actually, according to court regulations, especially high court rules, state that the judge needs to have a verdict and a private vote by the jury on the decision. If, in case, the jury is conflicted on decision, the attorney general is summoned to add heft to the one side of the jury he considers right. After that, the judge can weigh options and present verdict. 
This rejection to the offer of PMDC by private sector was not done blatantly and without reason. The same was done by PMDC earlier, and the colleges pointed this out and utilized this by weighing in and laying this to their foundation. The judge appeared pretty convinced by their argument but the jury got conflicted. 

My source is a notable personality who is himself a well-known lawyer, and is directly in contact with jury members and the judge. He himself was present and is a close friend of my uncle.



Oh, and judges do not go for settlements. They go for, as termed, 'the middle way' out. In this case, there are not two parties at conflict, there are legally three, as announced before every hearing. There is the Private Colleges, PMDC (Government indirectly) AND us, the students. In EVERY such case in the past, the students will and need IS the middle way. And it is mostkt the decision taken.


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## scooby (Nov 26, 2016)

This is a single bench case. When there is a jury present the decision is of the jury not the judge.

In this case the judge is heading all of this. I dont know if there is a jury but this case isnt the sort where a jury is required. Its civil.


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## Asad3497 (Oct 3, 2016)

scooby said:


> This is a single bench case. When there is a jury present the decision is of the jury not the judge.
> 
> In this case the judge is heading all of this. I dont know if there is a jury but this case isnt the sort where a jury is required. Its civil.


Exactly. A Domestic Civil case to exact. This has been a very common problem in many places and especially still is in Pakistan. Such cases were categorized by the famous Thomas Wendell, in his The Classical Law. It is still a basis for such decisions that fall under Domestic, Civil or Inter-/Intra-Nation category in regards to common civilian laws. A jury is NOT formally present, in such cases both pursuing sides are unaware largely of most of the jury since they probably hold power to sway decisions. Only 2-3 members of the Jury are known and they convey the decisions of the private meetings of the members to the judge. The Judge in turn collaborates with a notable outside authority, privately in most cases, and holds a separate hearing for the verdict. 
In this case, the jury has been divided EQUALLY. So, the judge has to publicly discuss with the outside party, the Attornet General in this case, so everyone knows how the decision was taken and the jury can be convinced. 

My knowledge of law is not complete but sitting and studying with my English teacher who happened to teach law too helped me get tremendous knowledge in this regard too. Especially Non-Criminal Laws.


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## scooby (Nov 26, 2016)

your information sounds solid but none of the news mentions anythinng relating to a jury. Keeping the jury confidential is obviously a priority but the jury does give its opinion and that shouldve been published if there was a jury in the past hearings.

however the attorney general was summoned to get the perspective of the govt in terms how far it can go to regulate private medical colleges since they are essentially run on a private business model owned by private civillian businessmen.

at this point there is disagreement between the govt and pvt colleges in terms of regulating admissions and setting policies for privates. I feel that pvts are losing the case since there have been serious grounds to hold pvts accountable. Despite all that i feel students should have a choice on pvts and it should not be centralized. The tuition should be controlled though. Lets see what happens.


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## Asad3497 (Oct 3, 2016)

scooby said:


> your information sounds solid but none of the news mentions anythinng relating to a jury. Keeping the jury confidential is obviously a priority but the jury does give its opinion and that shouldve been published if there was a jury in the past hearings.
> 
> however the attorney general was summoned to get the perspective of the govt in terms how far it can go to regulate private medical colleges since they are essentially run on a private business model owned by private civillian businessmen.
> 
> at this point there is disagreement between the govt and pvt colleges in terms of regulating admissions and setting policies for privates. I feel that pvts are losing the case since there have been serious grounds to hold pvts accountable. Despite all that i feel students should have a choice on pvts and it should not be centralized. The tuition should be controlled though. Lets see what happens.


The jury presents a decision when it feels like it. Or else the matter is delayed to another hearing. 
The reason for why I say that in the end, Privates will win is that the main priority is neither side, but the student. In 2008, PEC did the same to engineering colleges. Safe to say, the were dissolved and re-elected.


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## abdullah7766 (Nov 4, 2016)

There is no private/external Jury involved in this case.

I got confirmed news on what happened on Friday. The Attorney general of Pakistan told the judge that the Govt could review the PMDC policy and make changes to accommodate the student's objections. The attorney general told the judge to let UHS display lists and after the list the govt would address the issues of students who had challenged the policy. This was basically the govt trying to end the case lol.

The Judge taking notice of this went the other way and again restrained UHS from displaying any merit lists. The Judge told the attorney general and PMDC to sit down with students and colleges and come to an amicable resolution by December 5th. The lawyers of students and colleges accepted this proposal of the judge and will sit down with the attorney general and PMDC officials to reach something that is acceptable to everyone.

Next hearing of the case is on Monday 5 December! WOOOHOOOO.


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## Asad3497 (Oct 3, 2016)

abdullah7766 said:


> There is no private/external Jury involved in this case.
> 
> I got confirmed news on what happened on Friday. The Attorney general of Pakistan told the judge that the Govt could review the PMDC policy and make changes to accommodate the student's objections. The attorney general told the judge to let UHS display lists and after the list the govt would address the issues of students who had challenged the policy. This was basically the govt trying to end the case lol.
> 
> ...



It is not about reviewing the policy. It is about the stupidity that PMDC has shown and the way they handled the situation.
I think it is safe to say and think that CIP will not be implemented this year, that's impossible. 
The strongest force in any nation are students. Do you think if the CIP was implemented and the current admissions cancelled, the students will not riot? That is the thing that weighs heavily in favor of us. I don't care who has a heavier side: PMDC or the Colleges. What I care about is that this whole drama is unfair to this year's applicants. If PMDC had got this policy informed to all colleges since June, why didn't they take action when the admissions were going on? Why did the court send out letters to universities like SZABMU cancelling the forms? This is OUR future. Not theirs. And in believe that if intake was done on a centralized basis, the corruption and under table 'donations' done this year will take a huge backseat due to the ease of integration of corruption.


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## Asad3497 (Oct 3, 2016)

abdullah7766 said:


> There is no private/external Jury involved in this case.
> 
> 
> Next hearing of the case is on Monday 5 December! WOOOHOOOO.


Hearing CAN NOT be done by judges alone. It is the iniquity that is banished in the modern world law. There is always a third party view, or by now one of the parties would have won by utilizing their power. This is the unique aspect of the case when Shariah Law is intergrated into Modern Law. 



Let's hope the next meeting gives some result. I am unfortunately sure that it will prolong though.


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## scooby (Nov 26, 2016)

there is no jury. stop implementing british and american law into a third world country like Pakistan. The judge can ask for advice from a panel but this specific case is being heard and decided by a single bench jude not a jury.


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## Asad3497 (Oct 3, 2016)

scooby said:


> there is no jury. stop implementing british and american law into a third world country like Pakistan. The judge can ask for advice from a panel but this specific case is being heard and decided by a single bench jude not a jury.


Actually, the British law is what is mostly implemented in Pakistan, with some modifications to add Islamic Law. After the separation, both India and Pakistan are following the same Law basis as were laid down by the British. 

And I have already told you, my source is someone who was INSIDE at the hearing and is working with the case. 

I am not forcing or proving anything. Just making a fact known. Not even trying to offend anyone.


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## scooby (Nov 26, 2016)

Pakistan also follows the Westminster model of governance but is it followed properly? NO.

if you have INSIDE information with someone working on the case then i guess the jury isnt so confidential now is it? stop trolling. this is a SINGLE BENCH case. its not a bloody SUITS season where you get juries for a case like this. There are the same number of NUMS students who will be affected by sat 2 and they can protest too. Using an american test for a Pakistani curriculum of Medicine in Pakistan... Give me a break. Will America ever allow Pakistani MCAT for its medical schools? Big fat juicy slimy No.

The PMDC has said that All pvt colleges were consulted in April and then this policy was made. If sat 2 wasnt the issue none of us would be filing petitions. Colleges are protecting money using sat 2 and getting students to protest.


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## Asad3497 (Oct 3, 2016)

scooby said:


> Pakistan also follows the Westminster model of governance but is it followed properly? NO.
> 
> if you have INSIDE information with someone working on the case then i guess the jury isnt so confidential now is it? stop trolling. this is a SINGLE BENCH case. its not a bloody SUITS season where you get juries for a case like this. There are the same number of NUMS students who will be affected by sat 2 and they can protest too. Using an american test for a Pakistani curriculum of Medicine in Pakistan... Give me a break. Will America ever allow Pakistani MCAT for its medical schools? Big fat juicy slimy No.
> 
> The PMDC has said that All pvt colleges were consulted in April and then this policy was made. If sat 2 wasnt the issue none of us would be filing petitions. Colleges are protecting money using sat 2 and getting students to protest.


I think there is no use arguing. Believe what you want to believe. That's what most of the people are already doing.


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