# Questions about Pakistan Medical School + Residency



## cooldude89 (Feb 14, 2007)

hey Ali, salaam

I just had a few question about med school in Pakistan and about residency iin America??

So I know that your a 4th year and probably in clinical expeience. 

Have you taken your USMLE if so how did you do? If not when do you plan to take it?
How does Med School plan you for the USMLE steps in Pakistan?
How long is summer vacation for med school in Pakistan?
What field of residency do you with to get in when coming back to the states?
So your doing a house job thats like residency in Pakistan Why? Isn't that wasting a year you could just come back to the states and start residency?
Have you taken any electives/done any research or published any material?
Inshallah I wish to go into general surgery when finished do you think I'll get a good spot when applying for residency in America or do I have any shot at all?
I plan to take my USMLE's during the 5 years of med school instead after. Probably 2 or 3 year do you think I'll have adequate time to study for them and med school in Pakistan, thereby getting a good score on the USMLE (inshallah 95% or above) and pass the year in med school?
#confused


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

This isn't the place to ask those questions. The title of this thread is "When do classes begin?" and that's what we'd like to keep the topic on.

You can find a lot of the information you're looking for if you try using the search function at the top of the page.


To ask questions, please post in *relevant* thread topics, or if no thread exists, then create a new one, but please *do not* ask something completely off-topic in an existing thread.


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## Rehan (Jan 26, 2006)

I went ahead and made this a separate thread. Thanks.


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

cooldude89 said:


> hey Ali, salaam
> 
> I just had a few question about med school in Pakistan and about residency iin America??
> 
> ...


1. Medical school in pakistan does not prepare you for the USMLE whatsoever!!!!! you have to figure it out on your own.

2. Vacations are only 6 weeks in the summer, and 1 week for winter and spring.

3. House job isnt a waste if you want to learn something.

4. Its too early for you to decide on surgery and everything is equally as hard to get into.

And you cannot take the USMLE until you have finished 4th year.


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Some schools give a month for winter. Between fourth year and fifth year some schools will even give you 2 months for winter break, so that you can have some time to do electives.


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## cooldude89 (Feb 14, 2007)

is it a rule that you can't take the USMLE before 4yr or do you think its just going to be really hard to do it??


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## ali9686 (Oct 24, 2007)

LOL, what is this 60mins? #laugh i will try to answer as best as possible bro.

Have you taken your USMLE if so how did you do? If not when do you plan to take it?
* Not yet bro, going finish school and then take it afterwards, schedule is too hectic.

How does Med School plan you for the USMLE steps in Pakistan?

*I m assuming that u meant " Med School *prepare* you for the USMLE"
School is just an institution that presents the information in format which they deem appropriate bro, its up to you on how u assimilate that information and understand it. The subject matter is the same everywhere whether at Harvard, J.H., Upenn, KE, Shifa etc; 

How long is summer vacation for med school in Pakistan?

*Depends on the school bro and how much the course needs to be covered before your professional exam. But usually the standard is one month. My first and sec year we got June 1st till July 1st off. Third yr we had no break because patho course was extensive and alot was left to be covered so we attended patho classes all summer long, and fourth year i got June 15th till July 15th. So it depends on the year you are in and how much of the course still needs to be covered before the exams start. But usually i squeeze in a couple days before and after due to flight schedules and what not, so i end up with 5- 5 1/2weeks#cool

What field of residency do you with to get in when coming back to the states?

*Again assuming that u meant "*wish* to get in" 
Depends on your interest bro, anything is possible with good scores in school and a nice USMLE exam, but the trend for FMGs is Internal Med, Family, OBGYN, and peds. But then again, anything is possible. I m shooting for anesthesia, insh'ALLAH, so pray for me bro!

So your doing a house job thats like residency in Pakistan Why? Isn't that wasting a year you could just come back to the states and start residency?

*House is job is necessary for those that want to practice in Pakistan. So u r right, its like a residency in Pakistan. I m choosing to do it because the opportunity is there bro, its alot of hands on and you can get to see some really rare cases while here, especially in medicine and surgery. 
Not really wasting a yr bro. Majority of the students do house job here, and along with study for the steps. So it better this way. My seniors told me its better to be productive rather than sitting idle and studying. Plus when applying for residency, u will have to explain for that time period that u graduated and took your steps. Studying for steps is not so good of an excuse. Again this is all advice from my seniors. 

Have you taken any electives/done any research or published any material?

*No electives yet, after you take your final prof in fifth year, there usually is a 6-7 month time period for your scores to be announced. This is the perfect time to do electives, not so much research. You can do research here if you want. There are some professor doing research at KE but its hard to get into. But u can always try bro. i think its about interest. Those thinking about PhD afterwards, then its a must, but me, i content with not doing any research.

Inshallah I wish to go into general surgery when finished do you think I'll get a good spot when applying for residency in America or do I have any shot at all?

*With good scores and and nice USMLE score, anything is possible bro. I can't say much, but try doing a google search on residents in surgery from Pakistan Colleges.

I plan to take my USMLE's during the 5 years of med school instead after. Probably 2 or 3 year do you think I'll have adequate time to study for them and med school in Pakistan, thereby getting a good score on the USMLE (inshallah 95% or above) and pass the year in med school?

*You can try it bro, but you wont be well prepared because of the course. Pharmacology is taught in 3rd year and Special Patho is taught in 4th year. Both are key subjects for the steps. So the earliest you can take it is at the end of fourth year. It is possible that if you study along with your normal courses allowing you to take it at the end of the fourth year, but i have yet to hear of such a student that has taken step1 before final year. In my opinion i wouldn't do it, i would take it at the end, every one has told me this and i think that it is wise. 


Hope my answers were of help. 
Again all my answers are in reference to KE. 
The Shifa guys might have some different approaches, it will be good to hear what they have to say as well.


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Good answer man. Should help out a lot of people here.


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## MedGrunt (Feb 21, 2007)

Technically you can take step 1 at the end of 4th year, but it's not common practice. With the already heavy course load of med school it would be very difficult to find enough time to study properly for it. Since USMLE scores are so important for your career it would be better to be well prepared and take it after 5th year, even if it does take a little extra time. You know how the saying goes...better safe than sorry!


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

I recently found out that about 15% of students from Aga Khan end up taking steps 1 after fourth year. Pretty big number for one school, considering that almost everyone else waits.

I'm most likely going to wait till after final year myself.


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## Doc_Ammara (May 2, 2006)

by the time you end up with 4th year and start the final year,its already so tough and the rotations, ward duties and all that stuff that y,its better to take step 1 after u are done with final year... coz once u get the result, it will stick to u for the next seven years...nobody wants to take SUCH risks! aint it#roll 
*so, what i have learnt so far is that its best if u take it after your final year!*#yes


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

If you revise what you cover throughout the years often using USMLE review books its very possible to give the Step 1 after 4th year, but the system here is so messed up you wont get ample amount of time to revise it all again properly etc.


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## ali9686 (Oct 24, 2007)

bro, you have to understand, the system is not geared towards the USMLE like it is at other international universities. over here its the Five year British System which was implemented in the stone ages. KE and FJ have yet to deviate from. Other universities and colleges have implemented The Multiple Choice Exam format, but KE and FJ have yet to follow suit. 
your right bro, if u keep up with your studies and give like 3-4 hrs daily of step studying, then it is possible to take it at the end of 4th year. i tried it in 1st year, but i found it just too difficult to do so. Developed a routine for like 3 months but just burnt myself out. but that choice is up to u bro,if u can do it, then by all means go for it. but choose wisely.


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

UHS has multiple choice questions in its exams but the questions are completely NON usmle based. Anyway some people say its hard others say its not. Most people in paki med schools are so used to studying EVERYTHING and in major detail. The usmle is simple just a review of most things really! Nothing too hard.


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## Doc_Ammara (May 2, 2006)

MastahRiz said:


> I recently found out that about 15% of students from Aga Khan end up taking steps 1 after fourth year. Pretty big number for one school, considering that almost everyone else waits.
> 
> I'm most likely going to wait till after final year myself.


this reminds of something #wink 
one i heard a govt. figure saying this ona tv show *"Agha Khan is less a medical college, more like a tuition center for USMLE, ensuring U.S visaz for the studentz..."*

Peace!


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## Tasha (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *ali9686 *

Have you taken any electives/done any research or published any material?
*No electives yet, after you take your final prof in fifth year, there usually is a 6-7 month time period for your scored to be announced. This is the perfect time to do electives, not so much research.



So, during those 6-7 months you technically still are a medical student. Is it ok to do electives after this time( I mean after you graduate) or is it a requirement to be a medical student at the time of the electives?


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## ali9686 (Oct 24, 2007)

Tasha, your a medical student till the time u receive your final scores and ultimately your degree no matter how long it takes for them to check papers. Usually it takes this long because students sitting for the annual exam, if there are any failures in the annual exam, 40 days after results are released they have to re-appear in the failed subjects ( i have yet to see a 100% result in annual exam). So the grading of the re-takers causes this massive delay before graduation. Many students take advantage of this and do electives in the field of interest. Not to mention that exam schedule it self is so long. 

Correct me if i am wrong but i think electives are for students only. After you graduate you cannot do electives but they have other programs like extern-ships and observer-ships which you are allowed to do. But you might have to look into that. Each institution has its own policy so you will have to check with them. Hopefully one of the shifa guys or 7up has more info on it.


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

electives are only for medical students.


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## Tasha (Nov 26, 2007)

Ok thank you both for clearing that up for me.


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## taimur (Jul 4, 2006)

ali9686 said:


> . over here its the Five year British System which was implemented in the stone ages. KE and FJ have yet to deviate from. Other universities and colleges have implemented The Multiple Choice Exam format, but KE and FJ have yet to follow suit.


just wanted to say that this year they have changed the exam format and are now focusing on MCQs at KE.....

they talk abt the MCQ as if it is some really new and cool invention................#laugh


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## ali9686 (Oct 24, 2007)

taimur said:


> just wanted to say that this year they have changed the exam format and are now focusing on MCQs at KE.....
> 
> they talk abt the MCQ as if it is some really new and cool invention................#laugh


That is what they told us during our first year as well bro. Rumors were that our our professional exam were to be MCQ's but its been 4 yrs and still no change in the system. Lets see what happens this year....


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## bkhan08 (Oct 26, 2007)

If i do 3 yrs in paki is it possible to transfer bak o the staTES for ur final year?


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Yeah it's possible, but the difference between the possibility and the practicality is considerable. You'd have to finish step 1, with an extremely high score, and start back in the beginning of the third year in the US program. You wouldn't be able to just do the final year in the US.

Also, you couldn't just apply to all the schools in the US-- you'd only be able to apply to schools that accept transfers, and amongst those schools you'd have to apply to the ones that have a similar enough curriculum and have openings for transfers. There aren't openings every year, and there'd be a good chance that there wouldn't even be any openings the year you want to transfer.

You'd have an extremely difficult time to say the least.


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

HIGHLY unlikely.. i bet you have a better chance of getting attacked by a shark in rawal lake then transferring from Pakistan to USA.


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## talib (Feb 22, 2011)

It's not THAT extreme, We have family friends, who had a girl that went to Aga Khan for 2 years and then transferred to a medical school in Washington and went about her studies and passed her steps. I'm not saying it's easy, but it's not IMPOSSIBLE.


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## medstudent1 (Dec 3, 2010)

If you take STEP 1 during med school and do really well it is possible to transfer.


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## Sam212 (Apr 3, 2006)

talib said:


> It's not THAT extreme, We have family friends, who had a girl that went to Aga Khan for 2 years and then transferred to a medical school in Washington and went about her studies and passed her steps. I'm not saying it's easy, but it's not IMPOSSIBLE.


I would challenge the veracity of that claim, let me know which school she transferred into, GW? I know that a few caribbean students have transferred in the past, but this is exceedingly rare. You will have to be top 5 of your class along with a fantastic Step I score. You have much better chances of getting in through undergrad than applying as a foreign transfer student to say the least.


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## talib (Feb 22, 2011)

Honestly, I don't know the specifics of it, I just know that she went to Aga Khan then transferred over, but she had to start all over again, but it was still worth it for her, because she got her residency in a heartbeat. I can check with my dad to ask his friend where she went exactly, PM me for details


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Sam212 said:


> I would challenge the veracity of that claim, let me know which school she transferred into, GW? I know that a few caribbean students have transferred in the past, but this is exceedingly rare. You will have to be top 5 of your class along with a fantastic Step I score. You have much better chances of getting in through undergrad than applying as a foreign transfer student to say the least.


It occurs a lot more often than you may think. Connections circumvent all of the requirements you've mentioned. Just because you or I don't know the names, birthdates and SSNs of the people doing it doesn't mean it's not happening, though I agree it is a riskier and more difficult route to go by.


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## Sam212 (Apr 3, 2006)

MastahRiz said:


> It occurs a lot more often than you may think. Connections circumvent all of the requirements you've mentioned. Just because you or I don't know the names, birthdates and SSNs of the people doing it doesn't mean it's not happening, though I agree it is a riskier and more difficult route to go by.


Yes its happening, but the only students I have heard of ever getting in through that route are Caribbean students. Every school that accepts transfer students wants you to have taken the MCAT, along with the USMLE. I have a hard time believing that schools will let you just slide in because of connections, not just that, it'll be a fairly big hurdle for someone in Pakistan to take the MCAT just so they could transfer. They have to report who they have accepted to LCME, I agree connections will take you far, but you still gotta be in the ballpark. Guess I am a bit skeptical but you can see why.


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## Sam212 (Apr 3, 2006)

talib said:


> Honestly, I don't know the specifics of it, I just know that she went to Aga Khan then transferred over, but she had to start all over again, but it was still worth it for her, because she got her residency in a heartbeat. I can check with my dad to ask his friend where she went exactly, PM me for details



Bro, this isn't a transfer at all then if she to start all over again. She probably took the MCAT and applied just like everyone else. A straight up transfer is when they usually take you after 2nd year, i.e, after you have passed Step I. Then they place you in clinical rotations right away.


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## talib (Feb 22, 2011)

Sam212, I don't want to be rude, but you make it seem like once you go to a Pakistani Medical school, all your opportunities are locked regardless of who you are. Mind you, I am not basing my opinion on just this thread, I've viewed many of your threads, not to mention when you personally told me that Pakistani Medical Schools are not a good idea. Instead of dissuading others to do what you feel is best, I feel that you need to relax and look around you for once. Not everyone wants to go through the traditional route and take the MCAT's through an 8+ year process. Maybe someone wants to do it differently. As hard as you make it seem like, some people* are willing to put their whole life in it, it's not a shortcut of any sort that you make it seem, Pakistani Medical School's involve even more dedication than where you're at, because the curriculum is squeezed in such a small time frame. I am so tired of everyone making this field look like its some type of rocket science. You may have more experience than me, but I love medical, I've always loved science ever since I was young, and I didn't have to bust my ass to do good in it. I always feel it's the people that science is difficult to, that don't love it as much, or should reconsider. And just because we're not taking the MCAT's doesn't make the people who took the MCATS (no pun intended..) smarter than than them. All I am trying to say is, you need to stop discouraging people on threads, and actually help them out. Your route isn't for everyone, some people cant afford it, some people don't have the time, some people aren't aloud to, and some people don't want to. Everyone is different, so instead of going around making things look really difficult, you need to put some perspective in your words, because I for one know, that even though it won't be an easy route for me, it's sure as hell not gonna kill me, and I will get my residency here, and I will nail those USMLEs and I will be better than the American Graduate next to me, whether someone tells me it's impossible or i'll never do it, I really don't give a damn. Peace.


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## Sam212 (Apr 3, 2006)

talib said:


> Sam212, I don't want to be rude, but you make it seem like once you go to a Pakistani Medical school, all your opportunities are locked regardless of who you are. Mind you, I am not basing my opinion on just this thread, I've viewed many of your threads, not to mention when you personally told me that Pakistani Medical Schools are not a good idea. Instead of dissuading others to do what you feel is best, I feel that you need to relax and look around you for once. Not everyone wants to go through the traditional route and take the MCAT's through an 8+ year process. Maybe someone wants to do it differently. As hard as you make it seem like, some people* are willing to put their whole life in it, it's not a shortcut of any sort that you make it seem, Pakistani Medical School's involve even more dedication than where you're at, because the curriculum is squeezed in such a small time frame. I am so tired of everyone making this field look like its some type of rocket science. You may have more experience than me, but I love medical, I've always loved science ever since I was young, and I didn't have to bust my ass to do good in it. I always feel it's the people that science is difficult to, that don't love it as much, or should reconsider. And just because we're not taking the MCAT's doesn't make the people who took the MCATS (no pun intended..) smarter than than them. All I am trying to say is, you need to stop discouraging people on threads, and actually help them out. Your route isn't for everyone, some people cant afford it, some people don't have the time, some people aren't aloud to, and some people don't want to. Everyone is different, so instead of going around making things look really difficult, you need to put some perspective in your words, because I for one know, that even though it won't be an easy route for me, it's sure as hell not gonna kill me, and I will get my residency here, and I will nail those USMLEs and I will be better than the American Graduate next to me, whether someone tells me it's impossible or i'll never do it, I really don't give a damn. Peace.


I never claim I know everything, I am not claiming that American grads are any smarter than foreign grads. You need to look at this objectively, you are taking this way too personally. Every single one of your arguments are invalid as to why someone should attend a foreign school, except perhaps they can't afford it. Paki schools aint any cheaper, last I checked they were around 15+K. You sure aint saving any time going to Pakistan, don't believe me? ask the guys who started this site. I like your confidence and I wish you get the residency of your dream, but that sure as heck wont be the fate of majority of kids that hang around here. So in essence, I am telling them the easier route. Fact: you are 18 and you probably dont even understand what medicine entails, I am trying to present the situation to you as honestly as I can. I realize that I am debbie downer most of the times, however, I want you to realize what kind of commitment you are about to make, therefore, I have to present the ugly truths of going the foreign route. 

If you can kill those USMLEs then why can't you kill the MCAT and open so many more doors for yourself than what you would have as an FMG? The only reason you should attend a foreign school is if you can't get in here, that would be the only reason. I am sorry to have offended you, but you need to know the truth. Graduation rate at American schools is in upward of 95%. You can look around and talk to people to find out what percentage of applicants from Pakistani schools got a residency. We're not talking first choice specialties or anything, just residency. Once you find out, then get back to me. Look at this objectively and stop taking it personally. I was all ready to go offshore but I got in here by some miracle so don't think I think of you or any other FMG any less than me. 

Either way, its your career, you ought to research this well. You owe it to yourself.


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## talib (Feb 22, 2011)

Sam212 said:


> I never claim I know everything, I am not claiming that American grads are any smarter than foreign grads. You need to look at this objectively, you are taking this way too personally. Every single one of your arguments are invalid as to why someone should attend a foreign school, except perhaps they can't afford it. Paki schools aint any cheaper, last I checked they were around 15+K. You sure aint saving any time going to Pakistan, don't believe me? ask the guys who started this site. I like your confidence and I wish you get the residency of your dream, but that sure as heck wont be the fate of majority of kids that hang around here. So in essence, I am telling them the easier route. Fact: you are 18 and you probably dont even understand what medicine entails, I am trying to present the situation to you as honestly as I can. I realize that I am debbie downer most of the times, however, I want you to realize what kind of commitment you are about to make, therefore, I have to present the ugly truths of going the foreign route.
> 
> If you can kill those USMLEs then why can't you kill the MCAT and open so many more doors for yourself than what you would have as an FMG? The only reason you should attend a foreign school is if you can't get in here, that would be the only reason. I am sorry to have offended you, but you need to know the truth. Graduation rate at American schools is in upward of 95%. You can look around and talk to people to find out what percentage of applicants from Pakistani schools got a residency. We're not talking first choice specialties or anything, just residency. Once you find out, then get back to me. Look at this objectively and stop taking it personally. I was all ready to go offshore but I got in here by some miracle so don't think I think of you or any other FMG any less than me.
> 
> Either way, its your career, you ought to research this well. You owe it to yourself.


I am not taking whatever you're saying personally, I am replying to it the way you're putting it, that's all. And 15k+ is better than taking out a loan for about 250k and then being in debt for about 6-7 years of your life. And you're saying that the people on Med School forum that want to go to a Pakistani School (majority) won't get a residency? It's your disregard, that you think just because you got in with the MCATs, you're safe, and any other route would have led you to failure. I don't want to repeat myself but Your Route Isn't For Everyone. And from what you're claiming "You should only attend a foreign medical school if you can't get in here.." that American Medical student's are more intelligent than FMG's. But whatever you're trying to claim, it's your own problem. I may be 18, but I know enough of what "medicine entails" and no one needs to tell me what I know and don't know. The _actual _fact of the matter per say is that I decided about 2-3 years ago that it's the route I want to take. I don't want to waste my time learning Organic Chemistry and Physics, when it won't do crap for me in Medical School. And I am not going to downgrade and go to any government college, I know where I want to go and it sure as hell won't bring me down in anyway. My confidence is what has made me who I am today, without it, and God's grace, I couldn't even be where I am today. And those 2 things are what I depend on for my journey ahead, you can say what you want, but I just don't think you should discourage the idea of a Foreign Medical School, just because it's not for YOU. What if you didn't pass the MCAT's god forbid? Where would you be? You sure as hell wouldn't be saying this, as a matter of fact, you probably would be telling people to go to Foreign Medical Schools, wishing you didn't waste your time in Undergrad. But that's another story. And "half these guys" on Medstudentz, as in Rehan and Rizwan, actually WENT to a foreign medical school, and they probably know more than American Medical Students, they believed in themselves, worked hard, and ended up in great residencies. I agree with you, that I am taking a risk, and I am not fighting you, I respect that you're my senior, but the risk that I am taking, I put that on God, I trust that if he wants me to do it, I will, and I'll do everything in my power to make it happen, then it's all on fate.


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