# SUB-Standard Medical Colleges Including CMH, YOU Should BE Vigilant ABOUT



## masterh (Sep 20, 2011)

*COLLEGES WITH NON-FUNCTIONAL HOSPITALS, WARNED BY PMDC:

*PMDC warns medical colleges with non-functional hospitals - thenews.com.pk

It includes names such as, CMH Medical & Dental College, Wah Medical College and FUMC.

*COLLEGES BANNED BY PMDC:

*STOP ADMISSION

*COLLEGES NOT RECOGNIZED BY PMDC:

*NOT RECOGNIZED


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## Nawall (Jul 7, 2014)

Found on FUMC's website Foundation University Medical College


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## Danish.sohail (Sep 4, 2014)

I dont know how the heck CMH is non functional hospital? Its always crowded with patients, habe international facilities and now it has been upgraded to international medical college. Furthermore, admissions are open there. This might be false news because international medical college of abbotabad is enrolling new students.


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## cefspan (Dec 25, 2011)

That's pretty stupid on behalf of pmdc


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## masterh (Sep 20, 2011)

Danish.sohail said:


> I dont know how the heck CMH is non functional hospital? Its always crowded with patients, habe international facilities and now it has been upgraded to international medical college. Furthermore, admissions are open there. This might be false news because international medical college of abbotabad is enrolling new students.


No, that is wrong. There is NO SUCH INTERNATIONAL MEDICAL COLLEGE, anywhere in Pakistan.  Secondly, that is NOT FALSE NEWS. CMH may have patients but not many of them are available for students to study or examine on. I have an army background and, I was even born in CMH, trust me, CMH LACKS a PROPER WARD SYSTEM, secondly the patients there are Army Officers and Army Soldiers, they don't let students examine them. As for the private patients, they pay heavy fee so, they also do not let students touch them. The only patients available would be JCO/OR families who may or may not let you examine them.

As far as the patient exposure is concerned, CMH lags behind Shalamar, FMH and LMDC. Shalamar sees the most patients (I gave a statistical overview comparing Shalamar with CMH and FMH in my previous posts) with Shalamar Hospital and Fauji Foundation, Lahore which treat countless patients for FREE, from poor and lower middle class families and, others at subsidized rates. Then, comes FMH with their Fatima Memorial Hospital and Hijaz Hospital and then LMDC with Ghurki Hospital (They may write Doctor's Hospital and Surgimed on the Prospectus, but medical students mostly go to Ghurki Hospital for rotations). CMH is behind them. CMH Hospital lacks the proper ward system that Shalamar Hospital, Fauji Foundation, Lahore, Fatima Memorial Hospital and Ghurki Hospital has. There is a lack of demo rooms in the OPD in CMH too. Hence, the patient exposure in CMH is LESS than that of Shalamar, FMH and LMDC.

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Nawall said:


> Found on FUMC's website Foundation University Medical College


Amazingly, I found no co-relation with the press release and the refuting statement by FUMC. I mean, PMDC did not state that FUMC has no hospital, it has a hospital but it is non functional. All these hospitals were labelled non-functional due to the LOW Bed Occupancy Rate and Lack of a Proper Ward System for Medical Education. I know this, because Fauji Foundation, Lahore is affiliated with my medical college i.e; Shalamar and before getting affiliated it had to rectify all these deficiencies. They were made to build and organize a proper ward system and, raise an endowment fund to treat as many patients free as they can, to raise and further improve the bed occupancy rate, back in 2011. They were made to construct new demo rooms as well, which they did. And, Alhumdolilah FFH, Lahore's system is working amazingly. I reckon, Fauji Foundation, Rawalpindi still has some deficiencies due to which PMDC notified them. That's my inference.


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## amir7500 (Sep 3, 2014)

You should not take admission in these colleges.


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## __________ (Jan 31, 2014)

masterh said:


> No, that is wrong. There is NO SUCH INTERNATIONAL MEDICAL COLLEGE, anywhere in Pakistan.  Secondly, that is NOT FALSE NEWS. CMH may have patients but not many of them are available for students to study or examine on. I have an army background and, I was even born in CMH, trust me, CMH LACKS a PROPER WARD SYSTEM, secondly the patients there are Army Officers and Army Soldiers, they don't let students examine them. As for the private patients, they pay heavy fee so, they also do not let students touch them. The only patients available would be JCO/OR families who may or may not let you examine them.
> 
> As far as the patient exposure is concerned, CMH lags behind Shalamar, FMH and LMDC. Shalamar sees the most patients (I gave a statistical overview comparing Shalamar with CMH and FMH in my previous posts) with Shalamar Hospital and Fauji Foundation, Lahore which treat countless patients for FREE, from poor and lower middle class families and, others at subsidized rates. Then, comes FMH with their Fatima Memorial Hospital and Hijaz Hospital and then LMDC with Ghurki Hospital (They may write Doctor's Hospital and Surgimed on the Prospectus, but medical students mostly go to Ghurki Hospital for rotations). CMH is behind them. CMH Hospital lacks the proper ward system that Shalamar Hospital, Fauji Foundation, Lahore, Fatima Memorial Hospital and Ghurki Hospital has. There is a lack of demo rooms in the OPD in CMH too. Hence, the patient exposure in CMH is LESS than that of Shalamar, FMH and LMDC.
> 
> ...


Abbottabad International Medical College does exist and like last year PMDC has banned its admissions but they still enroll students just like WMC in Abbottabad.


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## masterh (Sep 20, 2011)

__________ said:


> Abbottabad International Medical College does exist and like last year PMDC has banned its admissions but they still enroll students just like WMC in Abbottabad.


By INTERNATIONAL, I meant that no college in Pakistan is truly international in true letter and spirit, really. If Abbottabad International Medical College is still inducting students than it is doing so illegally and you should absolutely avoid it.


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## __________ (Jan 31, 2014)

masterh said:


> By INTERNATIONAL, I meant that no college in Pakistan is truly international in true letter and spirit, really. If Abbottabad International Medical College is still inducting students than it is doing so illegally and you should absolutely avoid it.


Absolutely. Didn't even apply for Shifa as the guy on the phone told me that they are having problems with PMDC and the present government however the court is in their favour.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


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## masterh (Sep 20, 2011)

__________ said:


> Absolutely. Didn't even apply for Shifa as the guy on the phone told me that they are having problems with PMDC and the present government however the court is in their favour.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


PMDC is getting very strict and, they are sending open warnings to all those medical colleges which are not up to the mark. These medical colleges include names such as CMH, Wah, FUMC, Central Park, Continental and a lot of others. And, like you mentioned, even Shifa is having trouble with PMDC. Actually, the main problem of all these medical colleges is deficiencies in their clinical set ups which are not complying with the rules set by PMDC for Undergraduate Medical Education. Previously, the administration of PMDC was corrupt but, due to the efforts of YDA and PMA, the administration of PMDC now has become very strict and is devoted to maintain high standards. 

I guess all top merit students should totally avoid these medical colleges, which have been warned or notified by PMDC. Last year, they shut down 10 Medical Colleges, of which FMDC and Sahiwal were from the Govt. Sector. They are now focusing on the QUALITY rather than QUANTITY.

In Private Sector, the TOP BRACKET medical colleges for TOP MERIT STUDENTS are "AKU" and "Shalamar", followed by "FMH" and "LMDC".  CMH is surely having trouble with PMDC.

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Shifa is indeed having trouble with PMDC.

http://www.pmdc.org.pk/Portals/0/Annoc/public%20notice%2023-1-14.pdf


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## Danish.sohail (Sep 4, 2014)

masterh said:


> No, that is wrong. There is NO SUCH INTERNATIONAL MEDICAL COLLEGE, anywhere in Pakistan.  Secondly, that is NOT FALSE NEWS. CMH may have patients but not many of them are available for students to study or examine on. I have an army background and, I was even born in CMH, trust me, CMH LACKS a PROPER WARD SYSTEM, secondly the patients there are Army Officers and Army Soldiers, they don't let students examine them. As for the private patients, they pay heavy fee so, they also do not let students touch them. The only patients available would be JCO/OR families who may or may not let you examine them.
> 
> As far as the patient exposure is concerned, CMH lags behind Shalamar, FMH and LMDC. Shalamar sees the most patients (I gave a statistical overview comparing Shalamar with CMH and FMH in my previous posts) with Shalamar Hospital and Fauji Foundation, Lahore which treat countless patients for FREE, from poor and lower middle class families and, others at subsidized rates. Then, comes FMH with their Fatima Memorial Hospital and Hijaz Hospital and then LMDC with Ghurki Hospital (They may write Doctor's Hospital and Surgimed on the Prospectus, but medical students mostly go to Ghurki Hospital for rotations). CMH is behind them. CMH Hospital lacks the proper ward system that Shalamar Hospital, Fauji Foundation, Lahore, Fatima Memorial Hospital and Ghurki Hospital has. There is a lack of demo rooms in the OPD in CMH too. Hence, the patient exposure in CMH is LESS than that of Shalamar, FMH and LMDC.
> 
> ...


I have an aggregate of 86 or near it. mcat screwed everything, would i have managed getting 980, i would have an aggregate of 90% but anyways, i should stop whining about it. the thing is i am really interested in CMH. FMH and Shalimar comes 2 and 3rd respectively while lmdc is last option coz of its repute crisis. now kindly guide me that should i go for cmh or should i wait a bit, appear in test and then see what comes?


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## masterh (Sep 20, 2011)

Danish.sohail said:


> I have an aggregate of 86 or near it. mcat screwed everything, would i have managed getting 980, i would have an aggregate of 90% but anyways, i should stop whining about it. the thing is i am really interested in CMH. FMH and Shalimar comes 2 and 3rd respectively while lmdc is last option coz of its repute crisis. now kindly guide me that should i go for cmh or should i wait a bit, appear in test and then see what comes?


 86% is a really good score. You may get into Govt Medical College too. Anyways, CMH has recieved warnings from PMDC so, you should not put your career on stake. Shalamar is your best option and with an aggregate as high as yours, you may get significant scholarships and fee waiver as well.


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## Nawall (Jul 7, 2014)

masterh said:


> Amazingly, I found no co-relation with the press release and the refuting statement by FUMC. I mean, PMDC did not state that FUMC has no hospital, it has a hospital but it is non functional. All these hospitals were labelled non-functional due to the LOW Bed Occupancy Rate and Lack of a Proper Ward System for Medical Education. I know this, because Fauji Foundation, Lahore is affiliated with my medical college i.e; Shalamar and before getting affiliated it had to rectify all these deficiencies. They were made to build and organize a proper ward system and, raise an endowment fund to treat as many patients free as they can, to raise and further improve the bed occupancy rate, back in 2011. They were made to construct new demo rooms as well, which they did. And, Alhumdolilah FFH, Lahore's system is working amazingly. I reckon, Fauji Foundation, Rawalpindi still has some deficiencies due to which PMDC notified them. That's my inference.


Right. FUMC wasn't allowed to start their dental college last year either. But my only option is Islamabad/Rawalpindi. So if I can't apply to FUMC, Shifa, Riphah, IMDC or Wah then I can't think of any other medical college here.


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## tayyaba pervaiz (Sep 3, 2014)

i thought cmh was the best medical college in Lahore but i m shocked to see this as it became my dream college when i visited there last year

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what was the merit of bds in shalamaar last year ? i want to do bds and my aggregate is nearly 72%..


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## masterh (Sep 20, 2011)

tayyaba pervaiz said:


> i thought cmh was the best medical college in Lahore but i m shocked to see this as it became my dream college when i visited there last year
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> what was the merit of bds in shalamaar last year ? i want to do bds and my aggregate is nearly 72%..


Shalamar has not started it's BDS program as of yet. With your aggregate, you should look into LMDC and FMH for their BDS. Shalamar hasn't started it's BDS as of now.

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CMH has gone down. As far as the building is concerned, I believe LMDC and Shalamar's campus is better than CMH. FMH has an inferior campus though.

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Nawall said:


> Right. FUMC wasn't allowed to start their dental college last year either. But my only option is Islamabad/Rawalpindi. So if I can't apply to FUMC, Shifa, Riphah, IMDC or Wah then I can't think of any other medical college here.


You should look into colleges outside your city then. I believe it's better to stay safe than take a risk. All these medical colleges have become doubtful, it's better not to take any risk with them. But, if you can't go out of your city and you don't have any other option then, you may take the risk. :/


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## Danish.sohail (Sep 4, 2014)

masterh said:


> 86% is a really good score. You may get into Govt Medical College too. Anyways, CMH has recieved warnings from PMDC so, you should not put your career on stake. Shalamar is your best option and with an aggregate as high as yours, you may get significant scholarships and fee waiver as well.


Wow! Fee waiver look good. Although, i belong to affording family but still i dont want to burden my parents just because i screwed everything at the last moment :/
How much fee waiver i am expected to get and i also heard that shalamar fees is less as compared to other colleges.
And dua kro yar govt mei hi hojaye, beshak sialkot :/ my chacho is professor there so :3

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tayyaba pervaiz said:


> i thought cmh was the best medical college in Lahore but i m shocked to see this as it became my dream college when i visited there last year
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> what was the merit of bds in shalamaar last year ? i want to do bds and my aggregate is nearly 72%..


cmh bds last year was 78% 
Apply in fmh, last year there merit was 69% i dont know what it would be this year


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## masterh (Sep 20, 2011)

Danish.sohail said:


> Wow! Fee waiver look good. Although, i belong to affording family but still i dont want to burden my parents just because i screwed everything at the last moment :/
> How much fee waiver i am expected to get and i also heard that shalamar fees is less as compared to other colleges.
> And dua kro yar govt mei hi hojaye, beshak sialkot :/ my chacho is professor there so :3
> 
> ...


I'll vouch for you to get admission in a Govt. Medical College yaar. Your aggregate is really good, Masha Allah. The Fee Waiver would be on the basis of your merit position which I think will be pretty good on the list and, your financial requirement. With your aggregate, I'd expect you to get at least one lakh or more waived off, but let's see.


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## cefspan (Dec 25, 2011)

masterh said:


> Shalamar has not started it's BDS program as of yet. With your aggregate, you should look into LMDC and FMH for their BDS. Shalamar hasn't started it's BDS as of now.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...


Cmh is the best choice you have after aga khan
Btw even the building and hospital of cmh surpasses the rest of private medical colleges in punjab


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## Sadia Q (Sep 4, 2014)

Okay so this might not be a very itelligent question, but I'm confused af so please help
What actually is MCAT? Is it a test? And to get into CMH, FMH, Shalamar, FUMC, etc what tests do you need to take?


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## masterh (Sep 20, 2011)

cefspan said:


> Cmh is the best choice you have after aga khan
> Btw even the building and hospital of cmh surpasses the rest of private medical colleges in punjab


Best choice with a "Non Functional" hospital? 

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Sadia Q said:


> Okay so this might not be a very itelligent question, but I'm confused af so please help
> What actually is MCAT? Is it a test? And to get into CMH, FMH, Shalamar, FUMC, etc what tests do you need to take?


MCAT is a test taken by UHS in Punjab. You have to give that. UHS has already taken the MCAT for this year, so your best bet is to prepare and give that, next year.  It is taken once a year, in September.


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## Sadia Q (Sep 4, 2014)

MCAT is a test taken by UHS in Punjab. You have to give that. UHS has already taken the MCAT for this year, so your best bet is to prepare and give that, next year.  It is taken once a year, in September.[/QUOTE]

I am currently 17 and doing my Alevels so I can apply next year only. Since I am in Karachi, I dont know much about these Lahori universities and their entrance tests. So you just need to take the MCAT test by UHS? Is that for all universities in Punjab?


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## cefspan (Dec 25, 2011)

masterh said:


> Best choice with a "Non Functional" hospital?
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...


Cmh was previously Bmh
and it's older than Mayo hospital itself
That's the statistics of opd of cmh









Idk how you claim cmh to be non functional


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## masterh (Sep 20, 2011)

Press Release 13th August, 2014: PMDC Plans to take actions against CMH, FUMC, Wah and others, if they don't fulfill the requirements of PMDC regarding their AFFILIATED HOSPITALS by December 2014. PMDC will DE-RECOGNIZE them if they don't rectify the deficiencies by December 2014. 

PMDC plans action against substandard medical colleges - thenews.com.pk

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cefspan said:


> Cmh was previously Bmh
> and it's older than Mayo hospital itself
> That's the statistics of opd of cmh
> View attachment 625
> ...


I didn't claim it to be "Non-Functional", PMDC did. 

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-6-266935-PMDC-plans-action-against-substandard-medical-colleges


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## cefspan (Dec 25, 2011)

Pmdc issued the same warning two years back about all the colleges in pindi isb and couple of gvt medical colleges in lahore too
I don't take it seriously, reason? Cmh, with the exception of aga khan, surpasses all the medical colleges in punjab and kpk
Even the government one's

What ever the issue is, that would resolve by the college admin soon


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## cefspan (Dec 25, 2011)

There is some kind of mistake which will soon be dealt with


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## masterh (Sep 20, 2011)

cefspan said:


> Cmh was previously Bmh
> and it's older than Mayo hospital itself
> That's the statistics of opd of cmh
> View attachment 625
> ...


Look, you have to admit. CMH is running on private rooms mostly, and there is a LACK of a Proper Ward System in CMH. There are little to no Demonstration Rooms in OPD. There is a lack of patients for medical education, lack of patient exposure for medical students. Army Officers, their families and, Soldiers are not available for medical students to examine. Maybe some JCO/OR families are available to students to examine. And, the private patients pay a lot so they are also not available to students.

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cefspan said:


> Pmdc issued the same warning two years back about all the colleges in pindi isb and couple of gvt medical colleges in lahore too
> I don't take it seriously, reason? Cmh, with the exception of aga khan, surpasses all the medical colleges in punjab and kpk
> Even the government one's
> 
> What ever the issue is, that would resolve by the college admin soon


Again, how can a medical college be good with a "Non Functional" Hospital? A bad name earned by CMH from PMDC.

It is the SECOND warning that CMH has received this year.

1st Warning: 25th February 2014: http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-6-234789-PMDC-warns-medical-colleges-with-non-functional-hospitals

2nd Warning: 13th August 2014: http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-6-266935-PMDC-plans-action-against-substandard-medical-colleges


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## AbraDabra (Feb 5, 2012)

The level of bias on this article is cringe-worthy, unfortunately. C.M.H is not under threat of closure, guys. Masterh, please do not spread information in a way which seems to be an attempt to insight fear.

Edit: This is to admit, that yes CMH definitely is a bit lacking in patient input, but the scenario you present makes it look alot more bleak than it actually is. I understand if you carry some pride-factor in this, considering you are in Shalamar, but your take on the matter is alot more brutal than necessary.

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Also, the STOP ADMISSION post you have put up is out-dated. Alot of the colleges there were bailed out.


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## cefspan (Dec 25, 2011)

masterh said:


> Look, you have to admit. CMH is running on private rooms mostly, and there is a LACK of a Proper Ward System in CMH. There are little to no Demonstration Rooms in OPD. There is a lack of patients for medical education, lack of patient exposure for medical students. Army Officers, their families and, Soldiers are not available for medical students to examine. Maybe some JCO/OR families are available to students to examine. And, the private patients pay a lot so they are also not available to students.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...


nope, cmh doesn't entertain a lot of private civilians first things first
secondly, cmh has pretty effective ward system, you have male officer wards, female officers wards, jco m/f wards, and you have ITCs
surgical ITC is seperate from Main ITC where the critical patients are dealt
its more effective thn government system

as for the examination thing, no thats not the case, radiology dept also accomodates second year and even first year students to some and learn from thm if the students are enthusiastic enough
NO ONE is going to say no to you thats what i experienced in CMH
CMH is the type of hospital that has its own funding from Medical Corpse
it doens't charge private patients like other hospitals, its relatively cheap
tell me where the lahore core, along with the rtd officers are entitled to get their medical done? you know the answer, and still you call it non functional? amazing! lol

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masterh said:


> Look, you have to admit. CMH is running on private rooms mostly, and there is a LACK of a Proper Ward System in CMH. There are little to no Demonstration Rooms in OPD. There is a lack of patients for medical education, lack of patient exposure for medical students. Army Officers, their families and, Soldiers are not available for medical students to examine. Maybe some JCO/OR families are available to students to examine. And, the private patients pay a lot so they are also not available to students.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...


nope, cmh doesn't entertain a lot of private civilians first things first
secondly, cmh has pretty effective ward system, you have male officer wards, female officers wards, jco m/f wards, and you have ITCs
surgical ITC is seperate from Main ITC where the critical patients are dealt
its more effective thn government system

as for the examination thing, no thats not the case, radiology dept also accomodates second year and even first year students to some and learn from thm if the students are enthusiastic enough
NO ONE is going to say no to you thats what i experienced in CMH
CMH is the type of hospital that has its own funding from Medical Corpse
it doens't charge private patients like other hospitals, its relatively cheap
tell me where the lahore core, along with the rtd officers are entitled to get their medical done? you know the answer, and still you call it non functional? amazing! lol


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## masterh (Sep 20, 2011)

cefspan said:


> nope, cmh doesn't entertain a lot of private civilians first things first
> secondly, cmh has pretty effective ward system, you have male officer wards, female officers wards, jco m/f wards, and you have ITCs
> surgical ITC is seperate from Main ITC where the critical patients are dealt
> its more effective thn government system
> ...


Look, ITC is like an ICU where medical students are not required to go. The Officer Wards are SEPARATE ROOMS. JCO Wards are scarce and are not BIG ENOUGH to accommodate 150 MBBS students per year = 450 Students At A Time (3rd Year, 4th Year and Final Year). Students don't usually go to the Officers Rooms. Only JCO Wards are there which are insufficient to accommodate so many students. Basically a ward is a LONG ROW OF BEDS DEDICATED TO A SINGLE DISCIPLINE OF MEDICINE. 

Radiology is not a subject of medicine at undergraduate level, it's amalgamated into other Subjects of Final Year MBBS. 

Non-Functional according to PMDC criteria for Medical Education means in simple words: "A lack of enough patients for medical students to learn, examine and see" 

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AbraDabra said:


> The level of bias on this article is cringe-worthy, unfortunately. C.M.H is not under threat of closure, guys. Masterh, please do not spread information in a way which seems to be an attempt to insight fear.
> 
> Edit: This is to admit, that yes CMH definitely is a bit lacking in patient input, but the scenario you present makes it look alot more bleak than it actually is. I understand if you carry some pride-factor in this, considering you are in Shalamar, but your take on the matter is alot more brutal than necessary.
> 
> ...


The stop admission post is not outdated. It is still present on the front page of PMDC's Website. And, AbraDabra it's not me who is calling it "Non Functional", it's the PMDC. This time around they have even asked all these medical colleges to rectify the deficiencies till December 2014, or else the article clearly says, it will be de-recognized. Read it yourself. 

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AbraDabra, look it is absolutely unfortunate and, personally what hurts me is that, I have friends and close friends in all these medical colleges, including you.  Last year, nearly 10 medical colleges were banned by PMDC, so that means they mean business and are serious. I am worried for a lot of my friends too. It doesn't mean that the students going to these medical colleges are any less, in fact CMH has always had high merit. It is utter negligence on part of all these medical colleges to not pay full attention to the requirements of PMDC. It is not the student's fault. I think CMH and all these colleges should rectify all these deficiencies as soon as they can, before December 2014 or so, and save their name and relieve all the worried students. 

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Sadia Q said:


> I am currently 17 and doing my Alevels so I can apply next year only. Since I am in Karachi, I dont know much about these Lahori universities and their entrance tests. So you just need to take the MCAT test by UHS? Is that for all universities in Punjab?


Yes, you need UHS MCAT, O Levels and A Levels. And, if you're applying to CMH and FMH, you need to give their own test as well. Only these two take their own test. 

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Read this AbraDabra: It's the second warning where the deadline of December 2014 is given and the action is to "de-recognize" these medical colleges, if they fail to rectify the problems. 

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-6-266935-PMDC-plans-action-against-substandard-medical-colleges


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## Amir (Sep 6, 2014)

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masterh said:


> No, that is wrong. There is NO SUCH INTERNATIONAL MEDICAL COLLEGE, anywhere in Pakistan.  Secondly, that is NOT FALSE NEWS. CMH may have patients but not many of them are available for students to study or examine on. I have an army background and, I was even born in CMH, trust me, CMH LACKS a PROPER WARD SYSTEM, secondly the patients there are Army Officers and Army Soldiers, they don't let students examine them. As for the private patients, they pay heavy fee so, they also do not let students touch them. The only patients available would be JCO/OR families who may or may not let you examine them.
> 
> As far as the patient exposure is concerned, CMH lags behind Shalamar, FMH and LMDC. Shalamar sees the most patients (I gave a statistical overview comparing Shalamar with CMH and FMH in my previous posts) with Shalamar Hospital and Fauji Foundation, Lahore which treat countless patients for FREE, from poor and lower middle class families and, others at subsidized rates. Then, comes FMH with their Fatima Memorial Hospital and Hijaz Hospital and then LMDC with Ghurki Hospital (They may write Doctor's Hospital and Surgimed on the Prospectus, but medical students mostly go to Ghurki Hospital for rotations). CMH is behind them. CMH Hospital lacks the proper ward system that Shalamar Hospital, Fauji Foundation, Lahore, Fatima Memorial Hospital and Ghurki Hospital has. There is a lack of demo rooms in the OPD in CMH too. Hence, the patient exposure in CMH is LESS than that of Shalamar, FMH and LMDC.
> 
> ...



I am new on this forum.
I want to inquire that which medical college should i prefer from CMH, FMH, Shalamar, Sharif


But i am bit confused after reading that CMH not give exposure to Patients. (Source=masterh)

1-After this i decided to prefer SHALAMAR and Sharif. Is this right approach??????????????????? 
2-My aggregate is 82.80? Is there any chance of admission in SHALAMAR with financial assistance????????????????

It is my humble request to all to guide me in this regard


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## cefspan (Dec 25, 2011)

Aga khan
Shifa/CMH
Shalamar
Fumc
akhtar saeed/LMDC


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## masterh (Sep 20, 2011)

Amir said:


> I am new on this forum.
> I want to inquire that which medical college should i prefer from CMH, FMH, Shalamar, Sharif
> 
> 
> ...


Well, you should apply everywhere and see where you get admission and then decide. And I repeat, this label "Non-Functional" Hospital is given by PMDC, not me or any individual.

About Financial Assistance, YES you can get Financial Assistance at Shalamar, provided you submit the Financial Assistance form available from Student Affairs Office at Shalamar along with your Admission Form. 

As for your approach, follow your heart. I might be biased towards my own medical college, but you should really trust your own conscience. My purpose of sharing this info was only and solely for the purpose of providing information to all the prospective students.


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## cefspan (Dec 25, 2011)

That's the preference list in terms of studies in medical colleges as per me


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## masterh (Sep 20, 2011)

cefspan said:


> Aga khan
> Shifa/CMH
> Shalamar
> Fumc
> akhtar saeed/LMDC


SHIFA is having trouble with PMDC, and a SERIOUS one here. http://www.pmdc.org.pk/Portals/0/Annoc/public notice 23-1-14.pdf

And, CMH is having trouble too. :?


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## cefspan (Dec 25, 2011)

The medical college in dg khan didn't had histo slides or microscopes the last time I heard
They use photographs in their ospes
If colleges like that are working how can pmdc not let cmh continue teaching?
I read the article, it states cmh doesn't have its working teaching hospital


Nonetheless, the college has been informed, and they are taking appropriate steps to resolve this issue


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## masterh (Sep 20, 2011)

cefspan said:


> The medical college in dg khan didn't had histo slides or microscopes the last time I heard
> They use photographs in their ospes
> If colleges like that are working how can pmdc not let cmh continue teaching?
> I read the article, it states cmh doesn't have its working teaching hospital
> ...


"Teaching Hospital" is something else in the entirety. It's not just the hospital, it is a lot of other things associated with a hospital meant to impart undergraduate medical education.  D.G Khan may not have microscopes right now, but they surely have a WORKING "Teaching Hospital", which is the essential most thing in medical education. Microscopes are important but, not as important as a Hospital or Patients in MBBS. If the purpose of seeing Histo Slides is being fulfilled by showing them on Multimedia other than microscopes, until they are made available, at least in that the purpose of "medical education" is being met, right? The point is to know about the features and point of identifications of Histo Slides, if they are not getting to see them under microscopes, at least they are able to see them on a multimedia. However, THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE TO "PATIENTS" and "HOSPITAL" in Medical Education. Microscopes CAN be substituted with Multimedia. However, I believe it doesn't mean that D.G Khan should continue this trend, they should get microscopes for their students, as soon as they can.


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## Amir (Sep 6, 2014)

masterh said:


> Well, you should apply everywhere and see where you get admission and then decide. And I repeat, this label "Non-Functional" Hospital is given by PMDC, not me or any individual.
> 
> About Financial Assistance, YES you can get Financial Assistance at Shalamar, provided you submit the Financial Assistance form available from Student Affairs Office at Shalamar along with your Admission Form.
> 
> ...



Thank you

Are these right preferences?
1 Shalamar
2 Sharif
3 FMH
4 Akhter Saeed


If u don't mind Pease tell me the last year closing merit of shalamar medical college????
My agree-gate is 82.80 is there any chance of admission in Shalamar?


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## cefspan (Dec 25, 2011)

You know what's the issue? You have the definitions of everything as per your point of view!
You justify dg khan who doesn't have proper working labs let alone a working teaching hospital but you overlook the fact of what cmh is!! A 1000 bed hospital!

Pmdc is known for using in appropriate ways to get colleges to make got it

Cmh is the oldest hospital in lahore, and surpasses many others!


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## masterh (Sep 20, 2011)

Amir said:


> Thank you
> 
> Are these right preferences?
> 1 Shalamar
> ...


Last year's last open merit of Shalamar was between 82-83%.


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## cefspan (Dec 25, 2011)

It was 83/84 in cmh


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## masterh (Sep 20, 2011)

cefspan said:


> You know what's the issue? You have the definitions of everything as per your point of view!
> You justify dg khan who doesn't have proper working labs let alone a working teaching hospital but you overlook the fact of what cmh is!! A 1000 bed hospital! Theq


Yaar, am I not right, when I say "There is NO substitute for patients and hospital in medical education"? D.G Khan is a new medical college, opened last year, they will take an year or so to affirm their standard, cut them some slack for being newcomers. At least, they have a REALLY BIG "WORKING" TEACHING HOSPITAL, which is the most important thing. 

As for 1000 beds of CMH, what is the use of 1000 beds when there is an utter lack of patients for students to examine or learn on? I mean, if I open a hospital with 5000 beds and, there are not as many patients to occupy them, what's the use then? BED OCCUPANCY RATE is what's important, NOT bed count. Check my posts from last year, I gave a good insight into all this with comparisons. 

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cefspan said:


> It was 83/84 in cmh


CMH takes it's own entry test, so the UHS aggregate cut off somehow becomes irrelevant.  I mean, they have their OWN merit criteria. Don't mix CMH's OWN merit criteria to UHS's Aggregate. 

Percentage of Weightage for UHS Aggregate is: 10% Matric, 40% FSc and 50% UHS MCAT
Percentage of Weightage for CMH Aggregate is: 10% Matric, 40% FSc, 37.5% UHS MCAT and 12.5% CMH Entry Test.

You can't confuse and admix them both. :roll: They are different.

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Shalamar gives admission on UHS Aggregate. CMH gives admission on their OWN Aggregate Formula. There is a DIFFERENCE. 

- - - Updated - - -

And, D.G Khan MC has a Government Hospital attached to it, which is an 800 Bedded DHQ of D.G Khan. It is the ONLY Government Hospital in the entire district of D.G Khan and nearby vicinity.  It has a HUGE work load. The DHQ has been there since 1910.


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## cefspan (Dec 25, 2011)

Lol
Do me a favor
Visit that hospital and thn tell me


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## masterh (Sep 20, 2011)

I am also not defending D.G Khan MC, if you see my last post again, I clearly said that D.G Khan MC should provide it's students with microscopes as soon as they can. But, the fact remains the same that you CAN'T find a substitute for Patients and Hospital in Medical Education.  Microscopes can be substituted, they are indeed important, but not as important as patients and a hospital is, in medical education.  Because, the only people that will be dealing with microscopes after MBBS will be Pathologists, while EVERYONE will be dealing with Patients. The whole of the subject of MEDICINE revolves around PATIENTS. There is NO medical education without them. 

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cefspan said:


> Lol
> Do me a favor
> Visit that hospital and thn tell me


I will, if I ever go to D.G Khan.


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## Amir (Sep 6, 2014)

masterh said:


> I am also not defending D.G Khan MC, if you see my last post again, I clearly said that D.G Khan MC should provide it's students with microscopes as soon as they can. But, the fact remains the same that you CAN'T find a substitute for Patients and Hospital in Medical Education.  Microscopes can be substituted, they are indeed important, but not as important as patients and a hospital is, in medical education.  Because, the only people that will be dealing with microscopes after MBBS will be Pathologists, while EVERYONE will be dealing with Patients. The whole of the subject of MEDICINE revolves around PATIENTS. There is NO medical education without them.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...




I heard alot about Lmdc corruption issues then why should prefer Lmdc over sharif medical college and akhtarsaeed? Is this good college please give brief answer.

The tution fee of Shalamar medical college is approx 6 laks per year without other charges if i apply for financial aid then how much they give relaxation in tution fee????????
Because my 1st prefrence is Shalamar medical college.


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## Danish.sohail (Sep 4, 2014)

cefspan said:


> Aga khan
> Shifa/CMH
> Shalamar
> Fumc
> akhtar saeed/LMDC


Taking admission in Aga khan is way difficult than you think.


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## cefspan (Dec 25, 2011)

Danish.sohail said:


> Taking admission in Aga khan is way difficult than you think.


Thanks for enlightening me


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## tayyaba pervaiz (Sep 3, 2014)

masterh said:


> Shalamar has not started it's BDS program as of yet. With your aggregate, you should look into LMDC and FMH for their BDS. Shalamar hasn't started it's BDS as of now.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...


oh ! its ok 
what about fmh ? do i have a fairly good chance to get in ?
i m so much disturbed and i m always thinking what will happen in the future as i don't want to do anything else  what if i apply in lmdc,fmh,cmh only ? will i get in any of these? as far as other medical colleges are concerned it makes me feel that they are not of good standard :/ really need to know what else should i do ?


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## masterh (Sep 20, 2011)

Amir said:


> I heard alot about Lmdc corruption issues then why should prefer Lmdc over sharif medical college and akhtarsaeed? Is this good college please give brief answer.
> 
> The tution fee of Shalamar medical college is approx 6 laks per year without other charges if i apply for financial aid then how much they give relaxation in tution fee????????
> Because my 1st prefrence is Shalamar medical college.


Financial aid would depend on your shown financial need, your financial situation including your father's income and assets on the Financial Assistance forms and your merit position on the merit list.  Usually the Financial aid ranges from 40,000 Rs to 2 Lakhs. You can also pay your fee in 3 installments in Shalamar. 

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tayyaba pervaiz said:


> oh ! its ok
> what about fmh ? do i have a fairly good chance to get in ?
> i m so much disturbed and i m always thinking what will happen in the future as i don't want to do anything else  what if i apply in lmdc,fmh,cmh only ? will i get in any of these? as far as other medical colleges are concerned it makes me feel that they are not of good standard :/ really need to know what else should i do ?


So, you are talking about BDS? Yes, if your aggregate is good then you should apply in FMH, CMH and LMDC. In BDS, merit is low so chances of getting admission are high. Also, apply to Sharif.

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Amir, despite LMDC's corruption, they do have a good clinical side that is better than Akhtar Saeed and Sharif.


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## mkuser (Aug 25, 2014)

Masterh , the Shalamar admittee ,hell bent on dragging everyone who will listen to his college.


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## masterh (Sep 20, 2011)

mkuser said:


> Masterh , the Shalamar admittee ,hell bent on dragging everyone who will listen to his college.


Get a life, dude. It just shows how naive you are. I can only pray for you.

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It is the PMDC that has problems with these medical colleges, not me or anyother individual. Maybe you are too delusional to understand that.


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## tayyaba pervaiz (Sep 3, 2014)

oh so are my chances high in fmh ? i so want to be there :/ or is LMDC good ? is it teaching hospital good ? .. and i heard fmh is really good .. i ll apply in sharif too 
what else should i do ? please help ?


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## Ahmad Zia (Nov 13, 2013)

tayyaba pervaiz said:


> oh so are my chances high in fmh ? i so want to be there :/ or is LMDC good ? is it teaching hospital good ? .. and i heard fmh is really good .. i ll apply in sharif too
> what else should i do ? please help ?


Teaching hospitals of FMH run circles around the hospitals of LMDC. FMH has a really high end clinical faculty paired with more than adequate patient exposure. In a nutshell FMH is better than LMDC in everything except campus room/quality.


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## Ahmad Zia (Nov 13, 2013)

masterh said:


> Get a life, dude. It just shows how naive you are. I can only pray for you.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> It is the PMDC that has problems with these medical colleges, not me or anyother individual. Maybe you are too delusional to understand that.


Sir, with all undue respect, I wonder how much they pay you for all this "false advertising" How about for once you stop boasting Shalamar's credentials. It is a really good college. Among the top 3 in Lahore. We all know it. I got an admission offer myself last year and I distinctly remember you sir were always there to shower praises on Shalamar back then too. Stop swaying peoples' decisions. We're here to give neutral opinions, "Neutral" being the key word, not to bash other colleges in a blatant attempt to satisfy ones own ego. You obviously feel pride in defending or rather flaunting your own college, for that I don't blame you but please keep it on the down low!


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## Umer Yamin (Oct 2, 2013)

Ahmad Zia said:


> Teaching hospitals of FMH run circles around the hospitals of LMDC. FMH has a really high end clinical faculty paired with more than adequate patient exposure. In a nutshell FMH is better than LMDC in everything except campus room/quality.


How many times have you exactly been to LMDC's Ghurki Trust and Teaching hospital? Kindly enlighten me more on FMH's "high end clinical faculty" as I'd really like to know, thanks


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## Apun94 (Nov 8, 2014)

Danish.sohail said:


> Taking admission in Aga khan is way difficult than you think.


Getting into aku is all about luck. There's no fixed criteria, and know one can say for sure if they will get into it or not


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## masterh (Sep 20, 2011)

Ahmad Zia said:


> Sir, with all undue respect, I wonder how much they pay you for all this "false advertising" How about for once you stop boasting Shalamar's credentials. It is a really good college. Among the top 3 in Lahore. We all know it. I got an admission offer myself last year and I distinctly remember you sir were always there to shower praises on Shalamar back then too. Stop swaying peoples' decisions. We're here to give neutral opinions, "Neutral" being the key word, not to bash other colleges in a blatant attempt to satisfy ones own ego. You obviously feel pride in defending or rather flaunting your own college, for that I don't blame you but please keep it on the down low!


Whatever I say I always say things with proof, and I have built a reputation for that. Apart from that, I don't understand why all of a sudden you dug up an old post and started bashing. Did you just wake up or what? Or maybe it was just the ashes. 

And yes, I don't remember talking to you ever, in the first place so, if you have any memories of our "alleged" conversation, I would love to revisit them.

Nonetheless, you are officially on my IGNORE LIST now.


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