# Foreigners in Pakistan



## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Well whether you're going SMC, RMC, KMC, AKU, KE, etc etc, med school in Pakistan is really a whole different world. I'm not talking about the studying, though if you want to know how that goes too, feel free to ask. For foreigners, this place is a _far_ cry from home!

Luckily, if you play your cards right and have good people around you, you'll be surprised at how close to the western world this place really is underneath.

One thing every foreigner needs for sure though, is the "what in the hell do I bring from America" List. For any questions on how we get accustomed to life out here, let's get the ball rolling with anything you all might be wondering.


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## Majid (Jan 28, 2006)

How is the studies in a Pakistani medical school? How do the professors teach? How do you get examined?

Are the resources good?

what about clinical experience?

also how is the atmosphere in class?

thanks


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Majid,

The studying in a Pakistani med school is pretty intense, but nothing you can't handle. It just takes *a lot of time* and concentration to memorize a million different things. Some people try cramming, although I've found the best way to do well is study a regular amount every day of the week. Regular study schedules range from 3hrs a day to 7hrs a day average.

The professors teach really well, and almost always use a Power Point presentation to supplement the vast knowledge they possess.

Final examinations take place once a year, covering about 10 months worth of material, while interim exams are held approx. every 12 weeks, consisting of written exams, multiple choice questions, oral examinations, and lab exams.

Clinical experience is some of the best the world has to offer, as a developing country gives us the opportunity to deal with common problems of the poor, that are otherwise extinct in nations like America.

And as for the atmosphere in class, well, it's something you've gotta see for yourself!


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

Ill have to give you the "public med school" vantage now. The studies are a complete joke really, classes are just a formality, they dont explain anything simple and the teachers/professors/doctors, whatever they are, they get paid the same no matter what and most of them are uninterested, they just want to ramble off as much as they can and say they covered that. Basically, your not taught, just dictated too. In RMC, powerpoint or "the multimedia" is rarely used.

We get examined once in a while with short tests, like 5 questions and they expect you to write 20 pages for those and with that your lucky if they even give you a 60% score.

In RMC, the resources ... what resources. We dont even have proper chairs to sit in, sometimes we sit on the floor of the stairs. I'm assuming your talking about computers.. maybe the internet. Hey man, this is govt education!

The ONE thing we have bragging rights in govt school over all the other schools? CLINICAL EXPERIENCE. At rmc we are affiliated with three hospitals, we have TONS of patients and its all hands on do whatever you want and the training is actually pretty decent.

I'd say the atmosphere in class is odd. You cant smile, chew gum, look away from the teacher, they like to pick on you, make you stand up and ask you random questions. Its basically just find a good thing to stare at and act like your paying attention.


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## Majid (Jan 28, 2006)

may i ask what is RMC?? 

thanks for the information.


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## Rehan (Jan 26, 2006)

RMC = Rawalpindi Medical College


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## Zia (Mar 24, 2006)

*maik7*

well maik i have studied form rmc too..n things u sed abt teaching at rmc are exaggeration..dnt knw wat period u were at rmc but things have changed then if u were from old lot...yeah agree with u lecture halls arnt that good but the thing they teach u in those 4 walls arent tht bad the way u sed....
also u ddnt tell about the frdnly envoirnment they have in rmc ..which very rare in other institutions in pakistan...
n rmc's clinical side is heaven for learners i wuld say...


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

*Re: maik7*



Zia said:


> well maik i have studied form rmc too..n things u sed abt teaching at rmc are exaggeration..dnt knw wat period u were at rmc but things have changed then if u were from old lot...yeah agree with u lecture halls arnt that good but the thing they teach u in those 4 walls arent tht bad the way u sed....
> also u ddnt tell about the frdnly envoirnment they have in rmc ..which very rare in other institutions in pakistan...
> n rmc's clinical side is heaven for learners i wuld say...


Im in the recent lot actually and nothing I said was an exaggeration whatsoever, if anything I was under exaggerating. All my comments are from a foreigners perspective, maybe for a local pakistani RMC is all Hoo Haa and awesome! But basically going to class is all a formality to confuse you more. In the entire time I've been at RMC I dont think I've ever received a hand out or syllabus for each class saying what would be taught and when exams were. There really is no organization and you have to figure out everything on your own. Maybe its friendly, because your comparing it to the rest of pakistan medical schools but all in all thats up to your own personal experiences. I find that people are friendly as much as their [------] equally everywhere you go. Clinically it may be good but all in all I see tons of areas for major improvements that wouldnt take any effort at all just no one takes any initiative or follow though. And dont say there is no money, when a governor comes to visit or some other high ranking official, the entire school is painted and fixed up and all the air conditioners are in working order. So the money just sits in someones pocket. But hey wont complain, it could be worse!


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Does it really matter guys? RMC graduates go on to get some of the most rare and difficult residencies at the best hospitals in the US. Their USMLE scores are also worth bragging about.


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## Zia (Mar 24, 2006)

u are rite mastahriz...medical students of rmc have achieved a lot both internationally n in pakistan..even in usa thier is an organization of rmc drs ...n they have made great contribution in health in usa..
im not advocating only rmc but whole of public sector schools...n evidence i have to present is 2day result of final yr was announced n it was depressing to see most of the students in private medical colleges have failed...
as maik was complaining abt facilities like seating ...but there are other things which makes a school better...n i feel if u have to study medicine in pkistan then join some govt run medical school...i shuldnt b mistaken wrong i accept there are good private sector colleges but jst 1 or 2..
or if u jst wanna become a dr n u have a lot of $$ ....then u can become 1 without opening a book in some private school..
you can see results of some private schools by clicking www.uhs.edu.pk


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

Zia said:


> u are rite mastahriz...medical students of rmc have achieved a lot both internationally n in pakistan..even in usa thier is an organization of rmc drs ...n they have made great contribution in health in usa..
> im not advocating only rmc but whole of public sector schools...n evidence i have to present is 2day result of final yr was announced n it was depressing to see most of the students in private medical colleges have failed...
> as maik was complaining abt facilities like seating ...but there are other things which makes a school better...n i feel if u have to study medicine in pkistan then join some govt run medical school...i shuldnt b mistaken wrong i accept there are good private sector colleges but jst 1 or 2..
> or if u jst wanna become a dr n u have a lot of $$ ....then u can become 1 without opening a book in some private school..
> you can see results of some private schools by clicking www.uhs.edu.pk


I'm just arguing the foreigners perspective here of someone from abroad wants to come here will go through. I know lots of people who get picked on by the teacher for simply smiling. Just want to put the real picture out there that for the first 2 years your basically sitting like a zombie in a tight class room of about 250 people while some goofnut who has never received any formal teaching training mumbles for about 50 minutes. 

As far as the RMC doctors being great, yes they are good no ones arguing that, but thats because of their huge potential. They could be ten times better. You cant compare an rmc or a shifa student to an aga khan student though, let alone to other major intl medical schools around the world. We dont even have soap in our bathrooms. I mean get real, the only reason pakistani doctors do so well is because we have poor patients we can do anything we want with, and after graduating we spend 2 years preparing for the USMLEs, we make it a TON more complicated, and in the end its around 8 years since first day of medical school that we may start a residency most likely. 

It can be ten times more simple if everything was organized, taught properly and students had a better atmosphere. At the end of 5th year they would be totally ready, unfortunately a fresh pakistani graduate will admit himself that hes as confused as ever. 

But I would like to agree to one thing that zia and MastahRiz already pointed out, RMC is better than Shifa... even in football!

*[Mod Edit: Language]*


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Everyone, the experience for foreigners in medical schools abroad are what you make of them. It's true the teachers will give you a hard time in the beginning, but as long as you're in class regularly and study seriously then they all respect you.

If you want to compare students from Shifa/RMC to Aga Khani students, all you have to do is compare the right people. Between the students of Shifa + RMC who actually study like they want to become doctors that day and Aga Khani students, there's no difference at all. Again, it's what you make of the situation at hand.

Oh and as far as football goes Yoseph, if I remember correctly, there were only two players on your whole team that actually attended RMC.


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

Nope, we had about 7 confirmed guaranteed RMC students thank u very much Matariz.. and how dare u edit my posts!


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## Rehan (Jan 26, 2006)

Haha, I remember you and three other RMC guys there when we played...I think more showed up after the game, but it doesn't matter who won or lost---the fact was that we all got a chance to get away from our books for a little while and have fun tackling each other into the ground!


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## Zia (Mar 24, 2006)

i dunno abt ne football match b/w rms n shifa..actually im lod final yr student now rsult came ydy so now i can say im dr lolzz ..yeah rehan its always nice to have a break from books..


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## Sine240 (Apr 4, 2006)

hey i dont understand why all the pakistanis are applying to PAK med schools??i mean it cant be the years since it almost takes 7 years (UMLES studying) and, financially, its not cheaper there since over here u can get schooalrships here easily..or go to a local university and pay only $5k..i mean i dont understand what could be the reason for applying there??theres jsut a lame excuse of actually going there for a change or going to get adapted to Pak culture...i mean over here..they can get into the 6 year programs MD..or if not do the undergrad and take the MCAT..in 2007, the new deal is that the tests will taken on the computer so there is not a limit to how many u can take each year (thats beneficial)

its also a good idea if one doesnt do well on MCAT(jsut get a 24 and get admiited to Aga Khan), apply to PAK med school..and ull only be 22 at that time also.


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## Rehan (Jan 26, 2006)

Please refrain from posting the same post in multiple threads. Thank You.


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## Sine240 (Apr 4, 2006)

okay ....sorry..didnt know there were rules to posting...


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## sajimar25 (Jul 27, 2006)

*WHAT IS THE OLD WEBSITE NAME????*

Hey you guys I need help! There is another site set up like forums just like this MEdStudentz site.....had a LOOT of useful info. for Paki. Med. Schools. Rehan, sine, maik......you guys used to be on that one too!!!It was in my favorites, but I cleared that all out and now when I google "Pak. Med. Schools" that particular site doesnt come up, i know, cuz i would recognize the name somewhat, i just don't know what it was exactly so I can just type it in. Anyone know what I am talking about please tell me by replying!! Thanks!P.S>--This site is SOOO helpful-seriously! Thanks to all of you guys. I'm still thinking of Pak. Med School, but I promise, if I do go, I will write about ALL my experiences in Paki. here so as to help you and others!


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

value md = posers. wheres the value there haha


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## Sine240 (Apr 4, 2006)

true..........................verrrrrrryyyyy truee#laugh


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## Sadaf (May 24, 2006)

Dose anybody have anything to say about safety in Pakistan. Because now a days I hear about so much crime happening in Pakistan. I mean so many people in family have dealed with crime in the past couple of months so I wonder how it is with everyone else. What do u have to say about safety in Pakistan...is it safe???


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

Sadaf said:


> Dose anybody have anything to say about safety in Pakistan. Because now a days I hear about so much crime happening in Pakistan. I mean so many people in family have dealed with crime in the past couple of months so I wonder how it is with everyone else. What do u have to say about safety in Pakistan...is it safe???


Well you always see all kinds of murderers and child molesters on tv in usa specially on talk shows and on the news. You hear about cars being stolen and men trying to kill their wives there and stuff. People on minimum wage living in ghettos robbing convenience stores and New York City, lets not even go there! Man why would anyone want to go to usa, it doesnt sound safe!!!! Well then again pakistan has 160 million people, expected to double in the next 20 years, so everyone is busy having kids than to commit crimes lol.

But serioulsly, Lahore and Karachi do have crime, but if your a girl you'll most likely be locked up in a hostel w/other girls and they dont have any security problems. Rawalpindi/Islamabad relativley safe and best of all a brand new Mcdonalds Opens tommorow 10 minutes from Rawalpindi Medical College... Bite that Shifa!!


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## Rehan (Jan 26, 2006)

McDonalds = Imperialism served daily. #grin

Haha, jk, can't wait to get a Big Mac! #yes


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

Damn it Rehan why are you so far away. You know a Paki big mac hits the spot 100 times more than an american one. Its weird cuz when your in usa surrounded by fast food you dont enjoy it much but here in pakistan, those burgers that just *explode *in your mouth like flavor crystals everytime you bite *... mmm. *Actually there were rumors bout it months ago but the newspaper had an ad today with it on the front page, New Mcdonalds opens Aug 11 rawalpindi from 10 am onwards till judgement day (or next anti-western riots). Its actually in jinnah park, the place where bhutto was hung how many years ago. oh well, an army area basically kinda cool I hope


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## aimen4ever01 (Jul 26, 2007)

umm...em realli sorri if em inturrupting the conversations tht r going on...but....
i n-e-e-d h-e-l-p!
excuse me if em posting in the wrong topic or sumthin...em new...:S
my story is kinda wierd but jus dont go to sleep....pls...
em an american national...born n raised here but then i went to pakistan in 6th grade...
i did my o levels frm there...waiting for the result...n rite now em in america again for the sumer...
the thing is...my dad gave me an idea to study 12th grade frm a high school here in new jersey,graduate,n then go back to pakistan to apply in aku or otherwise in dmc or smc...
this way i would also b saving a year since instead of doing two years of inter i would jus do 1 year of high school...n plus i would have a high school diploma along with my o levels....
so yea...it would b nice i some1 could tell me if wht em doing is right bcuz whenever i talk to sum1 abt it they jus get confused...but u guys seem much more "informed" abt medical colleges.....
if em wrong then i could still try to go back to pakistan n jus do inter the old fashion way...
pls help...#sad


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Search the forum before posting, it's all been answered before.


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## Junnat (May 2, 2007)

Foreigners need a lot of gutts to study in Pakistan schools/colleges, especially in govt. colleges. And also you need to keep telling yourself that there are many advantages that dominate over the disadvantages. Guys, you must realize that Pakistan's education system is not the world's best, and it is still a developing country. If you want the system of Americas then you need to give 200-300 years for Pakistan to get to that standard (which is still not the best), we still have a long way to go. The govt. spends less than 1% in education and health and with all the corruption and corrupted officials don?t expect the system to work properly and be organized. To think positive, our education system is still better then how it was many years ago so it takes time and effort. If you don?t like it then you always have the option of not studying in Pakistan.

In the past few years Pakistan has been exposed to a tremendous amount of westernization (culture and production wise) so foreigners would not have any trouble finding and getting things that they need (If they have $$$). I think as a foreigner your experiences in Pakistan will mostly depend on what kind of a person you are, the kind of lifestyle you are used to and what you make of your experiences. Crimes and violence is occurring in every part of the world, not just in Pakistan. No matter where you study, once you go to study abroad you will have to adjust to the new environment, different language, culture, etc. There will be many things that you will like and dislike, in this case you will dislike a hell of lots of things but you can get used to it.

About safety and good experience: Try to find good friends, don't go out alone or hang out in the middle of night, keep a rather low profile and just observe and learn. There are many sides to studying in Pakistan, good bad and the ugly, just avoid getting yourself into situations that will have the worst consequences... 

As long as the teacher?s attitude and teaching style goes, no one should expect friendly or the most intellectual and well-mannered staff. Here in America along with good education the teachers are trained and taught to have good communication and keep a friendly environment with their students and encourage them to utilize the student?s talent and abilities. Well In Pakistan things work differently. There is no such thing as teachers and students communicating and forget about encouragements. It?s a teachers eat student world out there?! 

Teachers wouldn't bother you if you are a good student; just keep a low profile. Teaching style is not even close to the way teachers teach in US, Canada, etc. Pakistan is not the best place to study but it's not the worst. As a foreigner I think I will have problems adjusting to the teaching lifestyle the most because obviously we are taught differently in here. The foreigners be aware that you have to memorize a hell of lot and find resources on your own and if you live in hostel/dorms then get ready to live in old, rusty, and filthy rooms. There is no organized way of doing things in Pakistan so you have to get used to it. The best advice would be not to have any expectations, especially the good once; just observe and learn. 

Also which college a foreigner goes to also have some affect on their experience. For example, don?t go to RMC if you don?t like what maik7 is saying about it. Try AIMC, DOW, or Nishter; I have heard better things from the students of these colleges then the students of RMC. So choose to go to a college, which is better. Ask people around about what they think of a certain college. All of the colleges look the same; ask them about the teaching/exam style, which is a bigger concern then environment. No place is safe and nothing is perfect. In the end it depends on you how you make of your experiences?wherever you get your medical education from, you have to work hard anyways.


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## aimen4ever01 (Jul 26, 2007)

thanks for the help :S....


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## ghummank04 (Oct 22, 2007)

My biggest fear in govt hostel is bathroom...bathrooms are pretty scary over there but i could deal with that but i heard that gov't hostels don't have hot water...how in the world then u take a shower in winter?


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

ghummank04 said:


> My biggest fear in govt hostel is bathroom...bathrooms are pretty scary over there but i could deal with that but i heard that gov't hostels don't have hot water...how in the world then u take a shower in winter?


You can buy these electric heating rods.. Get a big bucket of water, plug the rod into the electrical outlet, and then it heats the rod which you put into the big bucket of water. They are available in the market just be careful of shocking yourself. After the water is heated up remove the rod. Get a smaller bucket and dip it into the big bucket and spill the warm water on top of your head and let it slide down the rest of your body. You are now wet. Soap up, then repeat w/more water until you are clean.. Desi style yo!

There is a ritual in the hostels of NEVER flushing what you leave behind. They like leaving "presents" for each other which makes no sense because you have to clean up someone elses crap when you come back but thats their mentality!!!!


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## ghummank04 (Oct 22, 2007)

now dats digusting...


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## Smeer (Jan 29, 2006)

maik7upurz said:


> You can buy these electric heating rods.. Get a big bucket of water, plug the rod into the electrical outlet, and then it heats the rod which you put into the big bucket of water. They are available in the market just be careful of shocking yourself. After the water is heated up remove the rod. Get a smaller bucket and dip it into the big bucket and spill the warm water on top of your head and let it slide down the rest of your body. You are now wet. Soap up, then repeat w/more water until you are clean.. Desi style yo!


hahaha thank you for that step-by-step procedure. I might have to take notes when it comes to the whole repeating part, it's so complicated #wink.




maik7upurz said:


> There is a ritual in the hostels of NEVER flushing what you leave behind. They like leaving "presents" for each other which makes no sense because you have to clean up someone elses crap when you come back but thats their mentality!!!!


eeeeekk, that is pretty disgusting.


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Guys, I don't think that you need to take that as the standard practice of all hostels. Neither maik7upurz nor myself live in hostels, so don't take our scare-tactics too seriously. Hostel life definitely has its moments, and I think its safe to say that as times are changing, some of the older hostel practices aren't really in effect anymore.

A lot of hostel rooms have private bathrooms anyway, and some days you will just have to use a cold shower. It's not as bad as you think.


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

It is as bad as you think as far as RMC is concerned. When you move into the hostel, they will try to "fool" you or "initiation" as its called in USA. The senior students have a lot of fun making fun of you and making you do certain things, but this will pass after a few weeks as long as you dont make any enemies in this stage.

There are no private bathrooms in most government hostels. If you are a foreigner you can apply to have your own room though. Govt hostels typically have no furniture whatsoever, and air conditioning is not allowed. Heaters are allowed though. Cold showers, well ya you'll have to take your towel with you and walk down the hall mostly.

And ya they never flush. But ya if you dont believe me take a visit to the hostel, they wont stop you from walking in.


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## taimur (Jul 4, 2006)

ive cheked out aimcs and rmcs as well as ke's hostels.........i didnt find anything in the toilets so i guess it was pretty much ok


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## Sarah H. (Nov 6, 2007)

Want to knw bout internet service in Pakistan:-

1) How expensive/cheap is it?
2) Wot is its speed lyk?
3) Do they hv dsl/asdl?
4) Is it easy ta get wireless in hostels? If yes, how?


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Read/search before you post. This stuff was just answered on the previous page of this thread. Shouldn't have to tell you again, as this is the second time already.

You can read up on it here

http://medstudentz.com/pakistan-medical-schools/589-trouble-foreigners.html

Thanks.


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## Sarah H. (Nov 6, 2007)

alright, tnx


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