# Army Medical + Shifa College Foreign Students



## GaRfield (Feb 14, 2009)

hello,
This is for the students applying to amc for bds/mbbs foreign category (2011 session) also known as SAT INTERNATIONAL SEATS. So how many people applied and what are your plans? Can any current mbbs student do a preview on the atmosphere and syllabus of amc mbbs? is it usmle style or pakistani style? thanks


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

Contrary to popular belief, 100% of the Pakistan medical school curriculum is Pakistani style. At present, there exists NO such "USMLE style" system in Pakistan and highly doubtful there ever will be.


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## talib (Feb 22, 2011)

maik7upurz said:


> Contrary to popular belief, 100% of the Pakistan medical school curriculum is Pakistani style. At present, there exists NO such "USMLE style" system in Pakistan and highly doubtful there ever will be.


Don't give out opinions unless you're 100% sure about them. Aga Khan University as well as Shifa Medical college have centered their system around USMLE base environment; unless you're sure, give information out, there are not many, but there are Universities in Pakistan that follow American System. FWI.


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## Rocker16 (Nov 24, 2010)

what actually is the usmle style btw??


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## talib (Feb 22, 2011)

They center their curriculum around the USMLE, give tests in blocks, etc etc. to help student's gain a better understanding for the difficult exam


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## kiranzia91 (Jul 14, 2011)

GaRfield said:


> hello,
> This is for the students applying to amc for bds/mbbs foreign category (2011 session) also known as SAT INTERNATIONAL SEATS. So how many people applied and what are your plans? Can any current mbbs student do a preview on the atmosphere and syllabus of amc mbbs? is it usmle style or pakistani style? thanks


Hey. I am a student at AMC and just finished my first year here. The syllabus and teaching style in this college is completely Pakistani system. There is no prospect of a student studying from AMC to have complete knowledge and idea about the USMLE system. I am a foreign student myself, and am completely disappointed in the system of this apparently reknown college. The teaching style is typical; just giving lectures and taking tests. There is no concept of giving out help to students in interactive sessions; everything is about just getting ahead by rote learning yourself. Very disappointed here. If you want to go abroad after your completion of MBBS, its better if you apply in Aga Khan or Shifa which centralize their course work around the USMLE pattern. Im not trying to discourage you; just dont be surprised if you come here to find a complete military monitored, strict and pointless Pakistani teaching system. Thanks =)


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## GaRfield (Feb 14, 2009)

kiranzia91 said:


> Hey. I am a student at AMC and just finished my first year here. The syllabus and teaching style in this college is completely Pakistani system. There is no prospect of a student studying from AMC to have complete knowledge and idea about the USMLE system. I am a foreign student myself, and am completely disappointed in the system of this apparently reknown college. The teaching style is typical; just giving lectures and taking tests. There is no concept of giving out help to students in interactive sessions; everything is about just getting ahead by rote learning yourself. Very disappointed here. If you want to go abroad after your completion of MBBS, its better if you apply in Aga Khan or Shifa which centralize their course work around the USMLE pattern. Im not trying to discourage you; just dont be surprised if you come here to find a complete military monitored, strict and pointless Pakistani teaching system. Thanks =)


hey kiran, thanks for all that information.. which country did you come to amc from?


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## Rocker16 (Nov 24, 2010)

USMLEs dont depend on how anyone teaches u its completely an individual effort! people from any college have the same chance! i am myself in shifa and i assure you no one have gotten a residency for 3 years but i know people from AMC who have! also the clinical exposure in AMC is alot wider so this gives an added advantage to students there


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## talib (Feb 22, 2011)

Seriously? no one from Shifa has gotten a residency in 3 years? I don't believe that. And you're very well incorrect Rocker16, even though individual effort does go a long way, you need the right guidance, curriculum and prep that not all Pakistani Medical Colleges can offer. For instance, someone from Pindi Medical, has the same opportunity to take the USMLE as an Aga Khan student, however, you can see clearly where im leading this, the Aga Khan student (mediocre or brilliant) has been given the right guidance with the correct facilities and a suitable environment averaging better than the one a Pindi Medical Student ( no pun intended) was given. Therefore, you need more than JUST individual effort, some Pakistani Medical School's don't even cover some of the major topics given on the USMLEs, however, just self study isn't going to give flying colors. I am not saying in all cases, but I'm just talking generally. There's a lot of things that factor in good scores.


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## Rocker16 (Nov 24, 2010)

No one in shifa got a residency after 2008 its on record you can ask any1 you want to!! Well in the other case aku is the only college giving the correct guidance i accept but theres no such guidance here in shifa!! Let me tell you ive seen alot people from pindi medical getting 99s in the steps!!!


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

^Sorry but that's completely untrue. If you're going to make outrageous claims like that then be sure to post some sort of reference to back it up. 

Last I heard from friends at Shifa the average Step 1 score was 237+ (99).


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## talib (Feb 22, 2011)

MastahRiz said:


> ^Sorry but that's completely untrue. If you're going to make outrageous claims like that then be sure to post some sort of reference to back it up.
> 
> Last I heard from friends at Shifa the average Step 1 score was 237+ (99).


Thank you! I don't know what Rocker16 has against Shifa, whether he's a student there or not those are completely invalid claims, I can never decipher a school like Shifa having students unable to get residencies, or we wouldn't be talking about it like we are today. It's a very well respected college,and the only reason I can understand you're making these claims is because you're trying to dissuade competition if you're applying...


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## Rocker16 (Nov 24, 2010)

what is the use of this forum if u dont have to accept what someone is saying. im a student of shifa and i have asked many seniors about residencies!! a year or two back i think two people got 99 in their steps but still they were unable to get residencies because getting a 99 and getting a residency are different things!!! and talib im not saying its a bad college, its improving but still there are alot of problems in it which ull know if u come to shifa!!!!


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## hammad khan (Jan 13, 2010)

@^ topic Actully in most of the pakistani colleges they really doesn't care about USMLE becuse not all of the students going to take it. About Shifa's students mostly are too smart thats why mostly students pass USMLE in first chance.. You have seen their rquirements? you have to get very high scores from sat and fsc or A lev, so if they are taking that smart student from first day why he or she can't pass USMLE by him/her self. I think About USMLE most of the hard work goes to student who passed it not shifa. As well its not pakistani medical schools job to make you to pass it. In USA you can start medical school after bachelor's degree. In medical school they will make you to pass USMLE and doing bachelor or pre medical they will make you to pass biochem, phycology, pathology ect..., which pakistni students study in MBBS which is actully bachrlor of medicine... Its great work of MBBS students to pass it with out taking any class, but mostly takes classes from kaplan to pass USMLE....... Any ways best of luck Allah may help all of us to pass all the exams what ever its USMLE or others.


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## Rocker16 (Nov 24, 2010)

hammad khan said:


> @^ topic Actully in most of the pakistani colleges they really doesn't care about USMLE becuse not all of the students going to take it. About Shifa's students mostly are too smart thats why mostly students pass USMLE in first chance.. You have seen their rquirements? you have to get very high scores from sat and fsc or A lev, so if they are taking that smart student from first day why he or she can't pass USMLE by him/her self. I think About USMLE most of the hard work goes to student who passed it not shifa. As well its not pakistani medical schools job to make you to pass it. In USA you can start medical school after bachelor's degree. In medical school they will make you to pass USMLE and doing bachelor or pre medical they will make you to pass biochem, phycology, pathology ect..., which pakistni students study in MBBS which is actully bachrlor of medicine... Its great work of MBBS students to pass it with out taking any class, but mostly takes classes from kaplan to pass USMLE....... Any ways best of luck Allah may help all of us to pass all the exams what ever its USMLE or others.


Exactly!!!


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## talib (Feb 22, 2011)

hammad khan said:


> @^ topic Actully in most of the pakistani colleges they really doesn't care about USMLE becuse not all of the students going to take it. About Shifa's students mostly are too smart thats why mostly students pass USMLE in first chance.. You have seen their rquirements? you have to get very high scores from sat and fsc or A lev, so if they are taking that smart student from first day why he or she can't pass USMLE by him/her self. I think About USMLE most of the hard work goes to student who passed it not shifa. As well its not pakistani medical schools job to make you to pass it. In USA you can start medical school after bachelor's degree. In medical school they will make you to pass USMLE and doing bachelor or pre medical they will make you to pass biochem, phycology, pathology ect..., which pakistni students study in MBBS which is actully bachrlor of medicine... Its great work of MBBS students to pass it with out taking any class, but mostly takes classes from kaplan to pass USMLE....... Any ways best of luck Allah may help all of us to pass all the exams what ever its USMLE or others.


First of all, just to clear things up getting 700's and high 600's on 3 subject tests doesn't prove anything, I know people who got that and went to community college, it doesn't mean you're smart. Shifa has the correct facilities, great alumni, and teachers to help the student prepare themselves for this battle task ahead. And saying someone is "smart" that can pass the USMLE doesn't mean anything as well, they have to put hard work and effort into it.


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## Rocker16 (Nov 24, 2010)

shifas examination system is the only thing that can be to ones advantage for the usmles other than that i dont think so the facilities and teachers have any effect you just have to study yourself!!!


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## Electives USA (Aug 12, 2010)

nybeardman said:


> hi,
> i am from the united states and have applied to pakistani medical colleges this year. mainly amc/nust, fauji foundation, and ripha. my ibcc equvilence got and 851 but my sat twos arnt so great. i got a 650 in bio but 500's in physics and chem. can anyone tell me if these schools accept you cause they charge more for international students or would they reject someone even if they are paying more. i would really love for someoene to respond to me quick. thank you.


I don't think any of those colleges will accept you just because you would be paying more. Your best bet is to apply and hope you get in on merit.

If you don't then you can retake your SAT IIs in an attempt to score higher and apply again the next year.


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## ZoyaZ (Sep 7, 2009)

I think the best way to settle it is for people who attend Shifa to clear up rumours about residencies. Usually, after five years a student gets to know most of the batchmates. Does anyone know people from Shifa that have landed residencies in North America or are they all having trouble and stuck doing research/upgrading resume somewhere?


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## shaman.adil (Aug 19, 2009)

Being a pro Shifa guy, I have not heard anyone as of yet landing a residency. But I hope we will hear something about it.


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## talib (Feb 22, 2011)

shaman.adil said:


> Being a pro Shifa guy, I have not heard anyone as of yet landing a residency. But I hope we will hear something about it.


The year's not even over yet, and you know seniors and people who graduated from Shifa ?


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

So far Shifa grads who are US citizens have a 100% match rate into the US residency program. This doesn't mean that everyone has graduated and applied, but out of those who have, all have successfully matched. There are others currently involved in research but that is all very specific research aimed at residencies for fields such as anesthesia, orthopedics, etc, something you would have to do if you graduated from *any* foreign school and were looking for a spot in these fields.

I'm not sure what the match rate is for non-US citizen grads.

But, as far as USMLE scores for both US and non-US citizen grads from Shifa the average is about 237 - 240.

Not sure what kind of rumors anyone has heard but the match rate and scores speak for themselves.



shaman.adil said:


> Being a pro Shifa guy, I have not heard anyone as of yet landing a residency. But I hope we will hear something about it.


Not sure what this means exactly. If you really know people at that school then you would know that Shifa grads have been matching into US residency programs for at least a few years.


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## talib (Feb 22, 2011)

MastahRiz said:


> So far Shifa grads who are US citizens have a 100% match rate into the US residency program. This doesn't mean that everyone has graduated and applied, but out of those who have, all have successfully matched. There are others currently involved in research but that is all very specific research aimed at residencies for fields such as anesthesia, orthopedics, etc, something you would have to do if you graduated from *any* foreign school and were looking for a spot in these fields.
> 
> I'm not sure what the match rate is for non-US citizen grads.
> 
> ...


*Sigh of relief* Very well said MasterRiz, I really hope I get into Shifa, I am praying everyday.


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## Electives USA (Aug 12, 2010)

MastahRiz said:


> Not sure what this means exactly. If you really know people at that school then you would know that Shifa grads have been matching into US residency programs for at least a few years.


Makes sense since they've been doing so many electives during med school! :genius:


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## ZoyaZ (Sep 7, 2009)

There are many Shifa students on this forum so, when the time comes, they can let us know if/where they matched.


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

ZoyaZ said:


> There are many Shifa students on this forum so, when the time comes, they can let us know if/where they matched.


At that point no one really cares or has time to come back and "share with the group." Or, if you're still doubtful you can always try to get in touch with them personally.


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## ZoyaZ (Sep 7, 2009)

The school is about to graduate its 7th or 8th batch. As the years have gone on, there has been a steady influx of North American students. Most Pakistani medical schools have a directory of their graduates in North America, except Shifa.The impression seems to be that a few, if any students get residencies upon returning to the United States and instead have to take 2-3 years to improve their application. It would be comforting to have some of the moderators who are already on here attest otherwise.


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## talib (Feb 22, 2011)

^ Trollingggg.


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

ZoyaZ said:


> The school is about to graduate its 7th or 8th batch. As the years have gone on, there has been a steady influx of North American students. Most Pakistani medical schools have a directory of their graduates in North America, except Shifa.The impression seems to be that a few, if any students get residencies upon returning to the United States and instead have to take 2-3 years to improve their application. It would be comforting to have some of the moderators who are already on here attest otherwise.


There are a lot of big assumptions with pretty much no basis in fact in this post of yours so let's get a few things straight:

First of all- Shifa doesn't even accept American students every year, some years they accept only one or two. To me, that doesn't qualify as a "steady influx." Not all of these American students even return to the US. 

Second- Most pakistani medical schools have a directory of graduates? I have never seen one. Does AKU have one? Does RMC have one that is made by RMC? I know a previous student at RMC has made a web site dedicated to graduates of RMC but again, that doesn't make your case.



ZoyaZ said:


> The impression seems to be that a few, if any students get residencies upon returning to the United States and instead have to take 2-3 years to improve their application.


I have no idea where you're getting this information. Please explain to me how you got to that conclusion. What impression? "Few, if any?" This isn't a Shifa website. Shifa residents aren't going to come here to brag. I'm not sure you understand what kind of a time commitment is required by someone in residency. Also, just because I'm not sitting here listing the names of graduates who are in US residency programs doesn't mean they aren't there. If you're expecting the number to be 100 grads before you give the school any credit, then that's another story.

I don't know why you think people who have good things to say about Shifa are trying to deceive you since they have absolutely nothing to gain from doing so but it's clear that you're grossly misinformed about the school in general and also just refuse to believe what you've been told from people who actually have first hand knowledge on the subject. Whether you believe what I'm telling you is irrelevant- it's still perfectly true.



ZoyaZ said:


> It would be comforting to have some of the moderators who are already on here attest otherwise.


I don't know how to make this any more clear- people who are in residency are not here on this site. Not from Shifa, or any other med school for that matter. 

Have you ever been to Shifa? How many people do you actually know who go there? How many people do you personally know who have graduated from Shifa? In your opinion, how many American Shifa grads are currently in a US residency program? How many non-American grads from Shifa are in a US residency program? I'm curious whether your numbers will match up with mine (although from your previous posts it seems that this would be impossible).

If you could please answer these questions it might give us a better understanding of where your confusion is coming from. At this point though I fail to see what if anything we have left to gain from repeating ourselves to someone who refuses to consider the facts and relies on hearsay to make their entire case.


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## TotalNonStopAction (Feb 2, 2007)

What was the topic of this thread again?


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## ZoyaZ (Sep 7, 2009)

This answer must have taken alot of effort and time. In the future, I am going to try to back up my claims with links/actual statistics so there will be no need. I'm going to provide the links for the statements I made but before I do so I want to clarify I don't have a personal vendetta against the school. I will, however, correct people when they compare it to AKU or KEMC. Its documented results cannot compete with these schools at the present time. 

So...about the graduates. Admittedly, I don't have a link for this statement and this information was derived through a very 'unscientific/nonscientific' channel. There is a sample size of about 500 students on the facebook page for Shifa and one can scroll down various pages to get a general idea of the number of students from abroad. Also, there are different groups from different years of graduation which is also helpful. 

This is not a reliable method though so let's assume for a moment that there aren't a hundred North Americans that have either studied or are studying there. ALL Pakistani medical schools have many local graduates trying to come abroad. In fact, the directories that I will post will consist of mostly local grads who came abroad. Now, understandably the school has graduated less than ten batches so it is in its beginning stages. God-willing, more graduates will be able to get their residencies of choice if they want to go abroad.

When I was researching different medical schools in Pakistan, it was very important for me to see what type of networks they have abroad. Are their graduates PDs? Have their graduates been able to secure residencies apart from FM/IM? (Shifa is newer so I don't hold it to the same standards). The way I went about this is looking at North American directories.

AKU: Class of
RMC: Rawalpindi Medical College Graduates Directory By Year of Graduation

Mind you, they don't have the best websites, but it is a start. For the AKU one, you have to e-mail the admins for info on graduates. You asked for AKU and RMC...I could give you DOW/Fatima Jinnah/ KEMC/ as well.
Again, Shifa is new so don't have expectations of a website. 

The other point seemed to be saying that Shifa graduates who are doing residency (or are in that transition phase giving their USMLES) do not have time to inform people. This is really the first time I have heard of that on a medically-oriented forum.

See: valuemd, studentdoctornetwork (member), premed101, newmediamedicine (member), the studentroom (member)

Now, if Shifa graduates are busier than graduates from UK, the U.S., Canada, the Middle East, Southern Ireland, and other countries, then that is a different matter.


Since questions seem to be personally directed at me now, I'll try give a general answer (although I really don't agree with the use of ad hominem arguments). 
1) I have never been to Shifa. I don't see what that has to do with anything. Its as though there is an implication that one must attend the school to write about it. Most people here have not visited AKU Medical College but the school's reputation speaks for itself (same for DOW/KEMC/etc). 
2) Admittedly, I only have a rough approximation of how many graduates have gotten residencies abroad (I would say less than or equal to ten if even that). And from those graduates that have gotten residencies, I would imagine most would be in family or internal in a community medical center.*
*This is just personal speculation. I don't know who matched into what, that is why I was asking in the first place (see first post above). 
I've never seen so much resistance/hostility to simply stating 'this number of people matched in my class, can't give you details because we are busy in residencies.' Graduates from medical schools around the world let other people know come match day (either NRMP/or CARMS) and it has nothing to do with 'bragging'. It just let's future graduates know that a_ significant_ number of people have done it and it is possible. 
Anyways, NRMP and CARMS are starting up again soon so let's see how Shifa graduates fare this time. These schools are not set up to feed into the U.S. medical system, but it should be that if a person is aiming to come back they can do so without having to take another 2-3 years to improve their resume (which we both know is the case for many of the North American graduates of Shifa).


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## Rocker16 (Nov 24, 2010)

great post zoyaz


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## talib (Feb 22, 2011)

@ZoyaZ, MasterRiz is right, and from your very long reply, I don't see anything but opinions and misconceptions that were present in your older posts as well. I don't think you seem to be aware of the fact that, the sites that you enlisted, valuemed,premed,etc etc. are just like this site, if not, almost the same. They have people like you giving opinions as to what they think is best without any solid proof of their evaluations. And maybe there might be a FEW people who come back and tell about their experiences in residencies, but it sure as hell isn't the 95% of graduates who come back. The time and dedication, like MasterRiz said, that residencies entail, don't give you the time to be boasting around all aplomb about landing a residency. You're on call and have new adjustments to make after medical school. I really don't want to get personal with you, but I request you stop making false claims about schools you yourself stated you have not attended but made "rough speculations" about.


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## medstudent22 (Aug 13, 2011)

Also, I just found the Shifa website for alumni. 

Shifa Alumni - Alumni Forum

This will be of great value to people who are considering going to Shifa from North America. It has yet to have members who have gotten residency, but they are trying I guess.


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## Rocker16 (Nov 24, 2010)

from what i have researched in shifa is that too few people got residencies and that also quiet a few years back!! no one got residencies in the past few years!!


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## shaman.adil (Aug 19, 2009)

Nice post ZoyaZ. But Shifa does have an alumni website and also Baqai. But we just can't judge a medical school by the people getting residencies in USA. No Pakistan medical school (AKU apart) prepares you for USMLE-its all in the personal effort. 


Happy Independence Day Everyone! :')


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## medstudent22 (Aug 13, 2011)

Well, I don't think its because the school isn't preparing them well. Its just that the graduates seem to delay ECFMG certification and taking the required exams. It will be interesting to have all of these delayed graduates apply, probably not this fall, but the next fall and see where they end up.


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## medstudent22 (Aug 13, 2011)

Oh right, happy independence day! Sorry, its only Aug 13th where I am.


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## ZoyaZ (Sep 7, 2009)

^ Those posts were by me. I had to make another account for a friend.


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Rocker16 said:


> from what i have researched in shifa is that too few people got residencies and that also quiet a few years back!! no one got residencies in the past few years!!


Because you don't know them. I can think of three people off the top of my head who just matched this year, all from the same class.



ZoyaZ said:


> This answer must have taken alot of effort and time. In the future, I am going to try to back up my claims with links/actual statistics so there will be no need. I'm going to provide the links for the statements I made but before I do so I want to clarify I don't have a personal vendetta against the school. I will, however, correct people when they compare it to AKU or KEMC. Its documented results cannot compete with these schools at the present time.


I don't remember comparing it to either, and if I did, it certainly wasn't in terms of # of graduates in the US. Shifa is a much newer school.



ZoyaZ said:


> So...about the graduates.* Admittedly, I don't have a link for this statement and this information was derived through a very 'unscientific/nonscientific' channel. *There is a sample size of about 500 students on the facebook page for Shifa and one can scroll down various pages to get a general idea of the number of students from abroad. Also, there are different groups from different years of graduation which is also helpful.
> 
> This is not a reliable method though so let's assume for a moment that there aren't a hundred North Americans that have either studied or are studying there. ALL Pakistani medical schools have many local graduates trying to come abroad. In fact, the directories that I will post will consist of mostly local grads who came abroad. Now, understandably the school has graduated less than ten batches so it is in its beginning stages. God-willing, more graduates will be able to get their residencies of choice if they want to go abroad.


So this only applies to the locals as far as I can tell. If there are 500 people on the Facebook Shifa group that comes out to less than 50% of the total number of people who have attended Shifa. Not to mention the fact that some of the people in that group are faculty or prospective students. 



ZoyaZ said:


> When I was researching different medical schools in Pakistan, it was very important for me to see what type of networks they have abroad. Are their graduates PDs? Have their graduates been able to secure residencies apart from FM/IM? (Shifa is newer so I don't hold it to the same standards). The way I went about this is looking at North American directories.
> 
> AKU: Class of
> RMC: Rawalpindi Medical College Graduates Directory By Year of Graduation
> ...


Not at all what I said, especially with the specificity that you've broken it down to here, but your condescension is noted anyway.

SDN and other networks have a completely different audience from our forum which has turned out to be aimed heavily at admission into PK med schools. 



ZoyaZ said:


> Since questions seem to be personally directed at me now, I'll try give a general answer (although I really don't agree with the use of ad hominem arguments).
> 1) I have never been to Shifa. I don't see what that has to do with anything. Its as though there is an implication that one must attend the school to write about it. Most people here have not visited AKU Medical College but the school's reputation speaks for itself (same for DOW/KEMC/etc).
> 2) Admittedly, I only have a rough approximation of how many graduates have gotten residencies abroad (I would say less than or equal to ten if even that). And from those graduates that have gotten residencies, I would imagine most would be in family or internal in a community medical center.*
> *This is just personal speculation. I don't know who matched into what, that is why I was asking in the first place (see first post above).


You say you haven't been there, and that you don't understand what it has to do with anything but include a disclaimer about personal speculation. I'm not going to bother explaining that.



ZoyaZ said:


> I've never seen so much resistance/hostility to simply stating 'this number of people matched in my class, can't give you details because we are busy in residencies.' Graduates from medical schools around the world let other people know come match day (either NRMP/or CARMS) and it has nothing to do with 'bragging'. It just let's future graduates know that a_ significant_ number of people have done it and it is possible.


First, I have no hostility towards anyone over the internet. The resistance that you speak of has nothing to do with Shifa's reputation or the details of who matched where from Shifa. It just seems a little ignorant when someone who personally knows the graduates of the school tells you that yes people are matching and your reply is no I don't think they are. Why? Because they didn't post it on the alumni website? You also mention that you used unreliable sources, but then when someone with firsthand experience with personal knowledge of the graduates tells you otherwise, you say no that seems unlikely. Does that make any sense?

Residents don't tend to turn up on our forum because of the fact that so far we have a different audience (medical students) whereas a forum like SDN revolves around American medical schools, hospitals, residencies etc. Even still, I guarantee you there are less than even 10% of all US residents on either of these other forums so yes, to sum up, residents are extremely busy. That forum thrives off of american medical students interested in pursuing US residencies. What's the number of students that match and then come back to detail where they matched and how their intern year is going? Trust me- less than 10%.

As an example- Off the top of my head I can tell you last year's number of ophtho applicants was 600+. Now in the SDN network thread about where ophtho applicants matched, there are not even 50 people who wrote about their acceptance. Like I said- less than 10% on a forum _dedicated _to residents and the US residency program.



ZoyaZ said:


> Anyways, NRMP and CARMS are starting up again soon so let's see how Shifa graduates fare this time. These schools are not set up to feed into the U.S. medical system, but it should be that if a person is aiming to come back they can do so without having to take another 2-3 years to improve their resume (which we both know is the case for many of the North American graduates of Shifa).


I don't think that's accurate at all, but what would I know, right? How many med schools are there in Pakistan? How many of them are set up to feed into the US system? How many of them match into programs outside of IM/peds/FP on a *regular* basis?

Anyone who is building up their CV is doing so because they're aiming for a competitive specialty. Most of these are paid positions anyway. This is something you'd have to do regardless of which foreign school you graduate from. If AKU or some other school has a few graduates that somehow matched into competitive fields anyway over the years, then that's an exception, not the rule, especially since those fields are becoming more and more competitive every year.


I think we can agree we've exhausted this discussion without any real progress so it might be better for you to keep your view and me to keep mine. Any questions I've posed here are completely rhetorical.

The only thing I object to is you stating on the forum that Shifa grads aren't matching just because you personally don't see it posted on a website despite the fact that someone is telling you that it is a fact that they are. You need to accept that you don't have all the information. Still, if for some reason you feel the need, you can continue to post that if you like but I'll be here to call you on it when necessary. 

If you still feel the need to discuss it further then you can either make a new thread or PM me.

Thanks.


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## doc_jmd (Aug 14, 2011)

Most of medical colleges in pakistan donot follow a usmle based integrated study style,yet every year many students manage to get a residency,because usmle requires a lot of personal efforts on your part too,and if you are a dedicated student you will manage to make it,no matter which college you are in..AMC definitely lacks a strong guidance and alumni to help you out,but still its not a bad option provided you can stand the military environment and strict rules...


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