# Dow vs Shifa



## ramo91 (Mar 10, 2009)

Hi, Im an A'level graduate, my grades were AAB (B in chemistry).. I was wondering which of these 2 colleges shifa or dow should I go to? , I'm told with my grades and my decent score on the shifa entrance test There is a decent likelihood I'll get accepted to both these instituitions and I should decide which to attend asap because I wont have alot of time to think when the college offers come... I live in karachi, am an american national, wont have any financial problems going to shifa and hope to get into a good residency program in the US after medical school.thats my main aim . which of these 2would facilitate me the most in getting there??


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## mistahsupah (Jul 6, 2010)

I think Dow is better because it is the second oldest med.college in Pakistan and the older it is the more experience it has and the better. It has a bigger hospital than Shifa and the most important thing is that its near for you as you live in Karachi. Shifa on the other hand is new and the patients coming there pay alot of money so I don't think they would let a bunch of med.students touch them. Also its quite far from Karachi. 
That's what I think.......


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## ramo91 (Mar 10, 2009)

mistahsupah said:


> I think Dow is better because it is the second oldest med.college in Pakistan and the older it is the more experience it has and the better. It has a bigger hospital than Shifa and the most important thing is that its near for you as you live in Karachi. Shifa on the other hand is new and the patients coming there pay alot of money so I don't think they would let a bunch of med.students touch them. Also its quite far from Karachi.
> That's what I think.......


Thanks for ur input bro ... I was thinkin on similar lines but then came to find that many Dow graduates hav to study upto 2-3 years after medical college for ther usmles, unlike the system in AKU (and I've heard shifa also) wher they follow a curriculum similar to that in US, hense students can finish off with step 1 and step2 at the end of 4th and 5th year. Im all for better clinical exposure and being recognised later on as an awsome dowite but my main aim is too get a good residency a quickly as possible...is it worth trading reputation and superior clinical training for a better curriculum and faculty? i guess thats my real question.... and also i was wondering which one facilitates students getting research and clinical clerkships in the US more? ... also to all those awesome dowites and shifites out there... how is the uni environment and life style?


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## mistahsupah (Jul 6, 2010)

I don't think that is true because I know people who have studied from Dow and other places and are in the US and UK, they've done plab and usmle in the first go.Well I think the most important thing for a med.student is clinical exposure.....
At the end its up to you....


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## Blue_sofa (Aug 1, 2010)

Dow all the way


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Unless you're going to AKU, it doesn't matter which pakistani medical college you choose to attend. All that matters is how hard you work.


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## ramo91 (Mar 10, 2009)

@ mastahriz .. yeah i get what your saying, on the long run it doesnt matter...but doesnt curriculum, faculty, student life count for anything? ... i agree to what your saying but I still have to make a choice... Im hesitant to go to dow cuz of its location when things get bad in the city (which is quite often)..and student life in karachi is crap .... At the same time I know nothing about life at Shifa, except that the uni is refered to one of the best in Islamabad and I hav a good chance of getting in....


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## TheDoc (Jun 25, 2010)

MastahRiz said:


> Unless you're going to AKU, it doesn't matter which pakistani medical college you choose to attend. All that matters is how hard you work.


Very nicely put, I believe the same.

It doesn't matter where you go, what matters is how much you manage to gain and how hard you study. Living in Islamabad, I can personally tell you Shifa is full of "mummy daddies" who have a ton of money and literally pay their way through med school. Not to paint all the students with the same brush, but that's generally what I perceive. But they have a good hospital, that I must admit.

Aga Khan. Amazing! That's a top quality medical school in the private sector. That's the only private medical school I would recommend period. The PMDC should really take a look at how AKU teaches medicine to it's students and apply it. 

But other than AKU, stick to Government medical colleges. I can't stress this enough. Sure the hostels might not be great, but they have a standard and they're known nationwide. 

Dow is cool, great history.

Dow International...? meh...Kinda wack if you ask me. I mean when did Dow become all caring about the foreign students. That whole college was made purely for profit, nothing more. Plus, people with serious mental problems go to that school I've heard nothing but bad stuff about the students there and how the rest of Karachi think they're losers.

No offense intended, but DIMCites, seriously. Grow up.


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## 4003 (Aug 12, 2008)

I gotta admit that was pretty funny... but bro, we go to medical school to study and ultimately go to the US for practice inshallah. We don't go because the students have issues? That shouldn't matter to anyone because simply it's not our problem. Every school has their ups and downs and trust me Aga khan as well because students from there told me. Nobody can make random assumptions unless you talk from experience. DMC has political influence on students, whereas DIMC doesn't. You may be right about DIMC being primarily for profit, atleast the students adjust to it fine. I'm sure it would be hard to adjust at DMC as well if your a foreign student.
In the end, it doesn't matter where you go, it's always about the hard work you put into it (as what mastahriz said). It's never always about the decision you take that determines the future, it's always how you make of that decision even if it's wrong in order to make it right.


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Both are great schools.

I went to Shifa and I had a pretty good time there and learned a lot. I went on about five or six rotations in the US during my time in med school and was always ahead of the American medical students. Shifa's curriculum is shaping up to be tougher than most American medical schools, and I think Shifa is better at addressing students' individual needs. The better you do at Shifa the more the teachers will strive to train you. Usually you'll find more foreigners there as well, in both the student body and faculty which makes it a smoother transition for most. 

Basic sciences are pretty much the same everywhere. Shifa's clinical department is full of some the best trained doctors I have ever met, who will treat you like equals when you're a clinical student and always jump at the chance to teach you a new procedure. There are some people there as well, who will tell you you didn't tie your scrubs on right and therefore throw you out of the OR, but I think generally there are more of those at government schools. At Shifa, all you have to do is ask and they'll let you assist in surgeries, get ER training, etc.

There's a few lines about my experience at Shifa. At the same time there was also a guy in my class who never showed up, skipped more than half the rotations every year, and only ended up repeating 1 year out of five (final year). So yeah, you do see those type of people every now and then at private med schools, but hey, if he doesn't want to come to rotation, well that's just more chance for me to do something then.


If I had to do it again I would still pick Shifa over every school except AKU. Do government schools have more patients? Yes, but that doesn't meant you'll see each and every one of them. You can only see so many patients in 24 hours. Shifa still has more than enough to keep you busy day and night.

Again, if you study hard, it doesn't matter which school you go to.


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## *FaarinaKhan* (Jul 31, 2009)

TheDoc said:


> Very nicely put, I believe the same.
> 
> It doesn't matter where you go, what matters is how much you manage to gain and how hard you study. Living in Islamabad, I can personally tell you Shifa is full of "mummy daddies" who have a ton of money and literally pay their way through med school. Not to paint all the students with the same brush, but that's generally what I perceive. But they have a good hospital, that I must admit.
> 
> ...


 
You may be/are probably right about DIMC being made purely for profit and that they don't really care about us too much as students and I believe you when you say that you haven't heard the nicest things about it but to say that kids who go there have serious mental problems and that the rest of Karachi thinks that we're losers is quite out of line. Every school and its students have their pros and cons. With all due respect, it's not your job as a member of this forum or as a student of the medical profession to sit there and make harsh criticisms on others...


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

^I have to agree. Let's keep generalizations and hearsay out of this discussion. There are good students and bad students at every school.


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## ramo91 (Mar 10, 2009)

Thanx for the input guys  ...

@mistahsupah... dowites may clear ther usmles in ther 1st tries but often do study for upto 2 years after graduating... thats why Im so interested in Shifa, som1 told me their the closest thing to AKU curriculum wise and most ppl from AKU clear their usmle steps in the 4th/5th years or immediately after medical school (and get good scores too!)... thats why im so interested in the curriculum and faculty of shifa, reputation and grandeur wise its a no brainer that dow is wayy better, but for me , with my goals it would make more sense to choose the school with the curriculum/teaching style which will make it easier for me to pass my USMLEs.... could someone offer me advice with respect to this?


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Shifa students have done very well on the USMLE the past few years. I believe the average score is 240 (ballpark). A good friend of mine got a 253, another got a 254, and one more person I knew there got a 256. A "99" starts near 237, and I also know two people who scored exactly that. There may be some stragglers too, but I think the curriculum is geared well enough for the USMLE.

No idea about the DOW scores.


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## ramo91 (Mar 10, 2009)

@ mastahriz ...when do most shifa students appear for their step1 and step2 USMLEs? ..thanks


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Anywhere from 6 months to 18 months after graduation. I think it's safe to say that most AKU students also take step 1 after graduation although some (very few) have taken it before that.

Most students who take 'steps' before graduation are usually doing either Step 2 CS or CK, and Shifa also has had a few students who have chosen to do that.


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## ramo91 (Mar 10, 2009)

How's living in a hostel and student life at shifa? ...learned tons about shifa courtesy Mastahriz, ....could someone also comment on curriculum/faculty/teaching style/ environment at Dow??....any dowites out ther at all?!?


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## ramo91 (Mar 10, 2009)

How's hostel life and student life at shifa? ......... also, what do students do in their free time for fun?


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Hostel life is largely dependent on these factors:

1. How much money you have
2. Whether or not you get a roommate

It's a great environment most of the time, helps a lot in studying for tests and guarantees you enough people for sports.

Things to do in your free time: 

1. Study
2. Work out
3. Sports
4. Food
5. Movies
6. Volunteer work
7. Electives
8. Learn an instrument
9. Nine? Good luck. I'll be surprised if you make it to six.


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## ramo91 (Mar 10, 2009)

^ thanks a ton man!! #laugh


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## TheDoc (Jun 25, 2010)

*FaarinaKhan* said:


> You may be/are probably right about DIMC being made purely for profit and that they don't really care about us too much as students and I believe you when you say that you haven't heard the nicest things about it but to say that kids who go there have serious mental problems and that the rest of Karachi thinks that we're losers is quite out of line. Every school and its students have their pros and cons. With all due respect, it's not your job as a member of this forum or as a student of the medical profession to sit there and make harsh criticisms on others...


I'm sorry for being "harsh" but this is not me speaking. This is the entire COLLEGE-GOING populous of Karachi saying this, I'm only reiterating it. 

Anyways, apologies for being harsh. It wasn't my intention, my anger was infact thwarted towards these new age medical schools in Pakistan which are only concerned about profit. It's seriously something the PMDC should look into, but then again the PMDC is as about as corrupt as it can get. 

#nerd


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## akhan (Jan 16, 2010)

MastahRiz said:


> Hostel life is largely dependent on these factors:
> 
> 1. How much money you have
> 2. Whether or not you get a roommate
> ...


 
can you please explain what you mean by saying 'whether or not you get a roommate'.is there an option for that.also what do you think is better.having a roommate or not.thanks


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

When space isn't an issue, then students are allowed to pay more for a private room. If you want privacy, then you may prefer this option.

I would always prefer to not have a roommate. There are already 20 other people in the hostel, don't need one right in my room 24/7.


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## coolblue_one (Aug 7, 2008)

TheDoc said:


> Very nicely put, I believe the same.
> 
> It doesn't matter where you go, what matters is how much you manage to gain and how hard you study. Living in Islamabad, I can personally tell you Shifa is full of "mummy daddies" who have a ton of money and literally pay their way through med school. Not to paint all the students with the same brush, but that's generally what I perceive. But they have a good hospital, that I must admit.
> 
> ...







dude you are very wrong in the generalisation you made about shifa and its students we dont pay our way through med school we have to study and work hard just like everybody else studying in the different med schools



ramo91 said:


> How's hostel life and student life at shifa? ......... also, what do students do in their free time for fun?



student life at shifa is not very happening when you compare shifa and dow, dow is where students have a better time because islamabad is a small city and there are not many places to go out to and hang out etc after two years of living here i have no more new places to go to and shifa does not help with this in any way we do not have many events happening in college like concerts or anything like that all we have is a once in a year talent show where students show their talent in music and acting 
if someone from karachi would come here to live, they would find this city and the college pretty boring


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## ramo91 (Mar 10, 2009)

@ coolblue_one ^ yeah but engineering students also go to GIK and that place in regards is worse than islamabad, and they all say it was a blast and everything.... is life at shifa really going to be that boring?! Hostel life in general people say is really fun...


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## coolblue_one (Aug 7, 2008)

ramo91 said:


> @ coolblue_one ^ yeah but engineering students also go to GIK and that place in regards is worse than islamabad, and they all say it was a blast and everything.... is life at shifa really going to be that boring?! Hostel life in general people say is really fun...


it depends on the hostel you are in and on the kind of people you are around in the hostel


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## ramo91 (Mar 10, 2009)

coolblue_one said:


> it depends on the hostel you are in and on the kind of people you are around in the hostel


Hows the crowd and environment at the boys hostel? are they like dull or something?


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## coolblue_one (Aug 7, 2008)

no dude 
no body is dull here 
its just that hostels at shifa are like a regular residential house turned into a hostel and u have about 10 students living in that house 
if u have got time on ur hands and if the rest of ur hostel mates r free too then u could watch some sport together or u could play counterstrike or mohaa or u could go out to some place for food and thats about it 
when u look at the hostel life at lums or any good college that has hostels on campus, life there is pretty different they have got loads of events happening around all year keeping everyone busy but what keeps u busy at shifa is ur prof and module exams


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