# Choosing RMC Over Shifa College Of Medicine From A USMLE Perspective



## Muzaffar Abdullah (Sep 12, 2015)

Salam

I recently sat for the MCAT in 2015 and achieved and overall aggregate of 86.18% meaning that I will most certainly make it to a govt college in Punjab. Though from Lahore, I will most certainly not be getting an admission in my hometown but I might just have a chance for Rawalpindi Medical College (its merit closing in at 86.58% last year) provided that the merit drops by at least 0.4%. 

To make it clear, my strict plan for the future is to achieve a good score in the USMLE during college and to ultimately land in a residency in the US. Keeping that in mind, what college should be my preference of those above?

Should it be Shifa owing to its modular system of teaching and evidence based medicine which, I believe, benefits those taking the USMLE? 
How good is the clinical exposure and teaching at Shifa? 
and how important is clinical exposure really if all i'm aiming for is the USMLE? 
How research oriented is Shifa compared to RMC? (because i'm also planning to start my own research during college)
Ultimately: Is studying at Shifa and paying a substantial amount of its fee really worth it?

*OR* 

Should my decision be RMC (or any other lower govt. college like Gujranwala that I might manage to secure), owing to its relatively strong Almuni base and clinical exposure?
Obviously the clinical exposure at Shifa will be far lesser than a govt college but how important is this exposure for me considering my future plans?

Also, has the Shifa Tameer-e-Millat University resolved its issues with the PMDC as yet?

I know these are a lotta questions but any guidance from the Alumni of respective colleges or any other students will be of immense importance to my future plans

Thanks in advance!


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## Bhatti1 (Sep 7, 2015)

While applying the UHS has signed a surety bond by to us to serve in Pakistan for 3 years :| What do u think about that???


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## Muzaffar Abdullah (Sep 12, 2015)

Bhatti1 said:


> While applying the UHS has signed a surety bond by to us to serve in Pakistan for 3 years :| What do u think about that???


Well I thought that's always been that way. And its actually 5 years, not 3. And the surety bond also says that a remuneration on Rs 500,000 is to be paid if one does not want to work for the government for that time. So i'm sure that isn't an issue


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## Civillian (Sep 22, 2015)

My aggregate hometown and future plans are exactly like yours. What I will suggest is that you go with RMC, keep this in mind that the major difference apart from the fee structure in shifa and any other government institute is the students who study there. Most of the students studying in RMC will either be like you or better so you will have a better competition as well as exposure there as compared to private institutions, they are more determined obviously and a lot of seniors make it to USMLE every year from RMC so you will get the help too. But this is entirely my opinion you should go to whatever place you desire.


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## Ahsun23 (Oct 5, 2015)

I think you should go for Shifa. It is way better in terms of conceptual studies and allows research facilities too as far as I have heard. You'll probably get under the burden of only memorizing and cramming in govt institutions.


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## Gaia (Sep 14, 2015)

I have the same plans and wish that Masterh replies to this post soon.


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## escalations (Apr 17, 2015)

My suggestion would be to keep the money and go for RMC unless US $100,000 (aprx) is a small amount for you, so does depend a bit on your personal circumstances and situation also. One good reason to go Shifa is also it is a better fit for students coming in from foreign countries due to social scene.
Due to modular education Shifa would be better for USMLE but I don't think that better where some extra USMLE prep which can cost fraction of that fee would not cover it. Thousands of students from Govt medical colleges in Pakistan have done great in USMLE and are practicing in USA and Canada (different exam).
If you are putting all your eggs in one basket, please be aware of the following. In USA there were about 5 new Medical colleges that started 3 or 4 years ago. This means starting 2016 more local graduates and hence less openings for IMG's. On the flip side, there is a bill in US Congress languishing for quite some years to increase 15000 residency positions. If that ever gets approved, things will get very good for IMG's. So either things will get better or worse, they will not stay the same.

Edit: residency position increase bill is for 15,000 postions over 5 years. But don't hold your breathe, not approved yet.


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## Bhatti1 (Sep 7, 2015)

escalations said:


> My suggestion would be to keep the money and go for RMC unless US $100,000 (aprx) is a small amount for you, so does depend a bit on your personal circumstances and situation also. One good reason to go Shifa is also it is a better fit for students coming in from foreign countries due to social scene.
> Due to modular education Shifa would be better for USMLE but I don't think that better where some extra USMLE prep which can cost fraction of that fee would not cover it. Thousands of students from Govt medical colleges in Pakistan have done great in USMLE and are practicing in USA and Canada (different exam).
> If you are putting all your eggs in one basket, please be aware of the following. In USA there were about 5 new Medical colleges that started 3 or 4 years ago. This means starting 2016 more local graduates and hence less openings for IMG's. On the flip side, there is a bill in US Congress languishing for quite some years to increase 5000 residency positions. If that ever gets approved, things will get very good for IMG's. So either things will get better or worse, they will not stay the same.


Whooo! From where did u get all those info about med college openings and bill. Sounds cool!!! Didn't even know about USMEL when I woke today!


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## escalations (Apr 17, 2015)

Bhatti1 said:


> Whooo! From where did u get all those info about med college openings and bill. Sounds cool!!! Didn't even know about USMEL when I woke today!


This link is regarding the bill and aamc take on it:
https://www.aamc.org/newsroom/newsreleases/431072/20150430_2.html

This link is for its status in US Congress:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/1148

Half of my family is doctors and the other half is in Teaching or Education so lets just say I listen to many of these news. You can find out about new Med schools in USA over google, 2 were in Florida and one in Arizona and other 2 I can't remember. If bill passes its cool!!!, if not, it will become very uncool 
btw my research on this is because I am contemplating whether to apply to Pakistan or tough it out here and take my chances.

Edit: Please note in conjunction with above there are 2 other bills in congress also regarding seats.


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## Bhatti1 (Sep 7, 2015)

escalations said:


> Bhatti1 said:
> 
> 
> > Whooo! From where did u get all those info about med college openings and bill. Sounds cool!!! Didn't even know about USMEL when I woke today!
> ...


Best of luck!!! BTW I don't know why everyone on this thread wants to go abroad. Our country really need good doctors


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## escalations (Apr 17, 2015)

Bhatti1 said:


> Best of luck!!! BTW I don't know why everyone on this thread wants to go abroad. Our country really need good doctors


Thanks. well over 90% will stay in Pakistan so there is plenty to go around.


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## Muzaffar Abdullah (Sep 12, 2015)

Thank you so much for your comprehensive response escalations!
I understand that fee can be an issue, for me as a local student it would be lower i.e probably $35,000 if I choose to go to Shifa, given that the current fee structure doesn't upgrade itslelf. 

But I believe I can draw the conclusion that it basically depends on the student and how he manages his time in his medschool accordingly as well as his effort. Besides, I come from an A level background. Maybe that could benefit me later on as well?  (Just trying to be optimistic :joy::joy

Thank you for informing us about the news regarding the possible Congress Bill and that of new colleges opening up in the US!

Well I wouldn't know much but if it weren't the finiancial perspective there wouldn't be any reason for a foreign student to pursue medical education in Pakistan,

Should you do so, I wish you Good Luck  and we'll all be happy to welcome you to Pakistan to pursue your ambition IA


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## escalations (Apr 17, 2015)

Hi Muzaffar, Thanks for the reply and wishes. If you can get in as a local student to Shifa then fee difference is not too big so it is worth considering. And yes being an A level helps . I think standard of A level is higher then F.Sc and US or Canadian high school.
The main reason foreign students from US and Canada come to Pakistani Medical schools is not the cost but because there is no direct admission to Medical school after Grade 12. You need to first finish a B.A or a BSc and then apply to a 4 year medical school. So for 4 years you are in a limbo, not knowing if you will gain admission. Secondly its the time, 4+4 years is longer then 5+1 year for USMLE (if you are lucky). The fee for Med school is high here but generally it is all student loans that you pay after you become a doctor. 
On the other hand rewards are, you are almost certain to match for residency if you complete medical school in North America where as if you are IMG, even after passing USMLE, you have to compete for limited spots. That is a whole new long discussion and there are other sites dedicated to that.


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## kobefan234 (Jul 2, 2013)

its not even about passing USMLE. As an IMG from Pakistan you need "high" scores. It also depends if you are a US IMG or non US IMG. I think the average Step 1 score of a non US IMG was 228 and for US IMG it was 213. You can also take Kaplan or Becker or USMLE prep courses in the summer time or after MBBS. Those Step 1 courses seem like a good option if you have the money ..


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## escalations (Apr 17, 2015)

On top of that you have to show your EC's and any research done or Internships to have a good shot.


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## Muzaffar Abdullah (Sep 12, 2015)

That's very true. Considering EC's and oppurtunities for research, would RMC be better? 
Or does Shifa take the win here?


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## Muzaffar Abdullah (Sep 12, 2015)

Another important query that I have is the one that I also asked initially. 
Provided one's aim is to work in the US later on, would the clinical experience in the govt colleges be something I miss, if I go to Shifa?


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## kobefan234 (Jul 2, 2013)

Shifa allocates time for electives in the 4th and 5th year. go to USA during that time and do the electives. although some students do Step 1 before doing electives in US.


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## aized (Aug 22, 2015)

.


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## DoctorA (Oct 16, 2015)

I would suggest you go with RMC. RMC being older than Shifa has larger Alumni community with some of practicing in the US. Plus the clinical exposure you get at RMC will be far graeter than what you'll get at Shifa. And why spend so much money on your degree when you can get better education for almost no cost at all. And as far as research is concerned RMC is no less than Shifa. They do have a few research facilities and encourage undergrad research. More over RMC gives a UHS degree which I believe has more value than Shifa degree since UHS has more international affiliations than shifa and has made a name for itself internationally. And I myself know a few RMC students who made it to US residencies in the past few years. I personally have heard of more RMC students getting US residencies compared to Shifa. Quite franly Shifa is overrated. If I were you I'd chose RMC over Shifa any day.


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## Civillian (Sep 22, 2015)

If you don't have any problem of getting yourself into a private institution, why didn't you apply to AKU? It is the best so far.


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## Muzaffar Abdullah (Sep 12, 2015)

Civillian said:


> If you don't have any problem of getting yourself into a private institution, why didn't you apply to AKU? It is the best so far.


Its because applying isn't enough. You need an acceptance as well 
I couldn't get one


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## Civillian (Sep 22, 2015)

How can you be so sure of getting into RMC? I think you would be really lucky if you make it into RMC though JS.


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## Muzaffar Abdullah (Sep 12, 2015)

Well i'm not sure actually. 
And I second what you say 
Like I said, Its only possible for me if the merit drops by atleast 0.4%. Word is that it may happen. So i'm laying down all possible options before me. 
But if it doesn't happen, the next college on my preferrence that I will most certainly get into is Gujranwala MC. Someplace, i'm not sure I want to go since its only a new college with its pioneer batch yet to pass. 
In that case, I will be more likely to chose Shifa instead, assuming I can make it there too


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## nidarasul (Sep 23, 2013)

Shifa stresses a lot upon research. And you will find a lot of help regarding USMLE because almost 50-60% of the senior batches go to the states for electives during 4th and 5th years and finally take the USMLE. The atmosphere in Shifa is very USMLE oriented to be honest. Very few people will tell you they plan to work in Pakistan lol. The modular system gives you some time off and lets you focus on research or anything else you plan to do. 
From what I hear, RMC really pushes you to memorize stuff.
Not sure about the reputation abroad but for Pakistan you'll certainly find more appreciation if you're going to RMC.


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## Muzaffar Abdullah (Sep 12, 2015)

nidarasul said:


> Shifa stresses a lot upon research. And you will find a lot of help regarding USMLE because almost 50-60% of the senior batches go to the states for electives during 4th and 5th years and finally take the USMLE. The atmosphere in Shifa is very USMLE oriented to be honest. Very few people will tell you they plan to work in Pakistan lol. The modular system gives you some time off and lets you focus on research or anything else you plan to do.
> From what I hear, RMC really pushes you to memorize stuff.
> Not sure about the reputation abroad but for Pakistan you'll certainly find more appreciation if you're going to RMC.


Thank you for your response nidrarasul. 
I think i'm now able to better differentiate between the pros and cons of each college. Just one query remains still and i'm sure many people would like a good response to this one; 
How important is the 'much more clinical exposure' you get at a govt college provided you're aiming to land a residency later on? 
Why is that relatively greater amount of clinical exposure important?


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## DoctorA (Oct 16, 2015)

Well if research is important to you, FUMC does a lot more research than Shifa. And I mean a lot. Shifa's students just did a really great job at promoting their college as the second best private medical college after AKU. Shifa's students stresses that it has the best research but FUMC has better. They claim their students make it to US residencies but hardly make it community hospital programs or do unaccredited fellowships to improve their CV.


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## nidarasul (Sep 23, 2013)

DoctorA said:


> Well if research is important to you, FUMC does a lot more research than Shifa. And I mean a lot. Shifa's students just did a really great job at promoting their college as the second best private medical college after AKU. Shifa's students stresses that it has the best research but FUMC has better. They claim their students make it to US residencies but hardly make it community hospital programs or do unaccredited fellowships to improve their CV.


You have nothing backing up those claims. That way I could say AKU isn't all that great and all because I feel like saying it. But we both know it is. We're not here to 'promote' a college. We don't own them. Not sure about you but I'm here to help people make a reasonable decision. Making up things doesn't help achieve that.

About clinical exposure Muzaffar, the reason people say government hospitals have better clinical exposure is because they leave everything in the hands of house officers. My sister works at PIMS (largest gov hospital of Isb) and while she was a house officer, she used to have the whole ward under her care. Obviously, house officers make mistakes, sometimes fatal ones but no one really bothers them about it. Now, if you're an HO at Shifa, before you conduct a procedure or write a medicine, you will need approval from seniors. Some people say that doesn't allow you to learn because you're constantly being supervised. Some find that a good thing.
Medical ethics are taken very very seriously at Shifa. So when you land a residency abroad, that will be helpful because if you move to an ethical set up from a place like PIMS, you will not know how to fit in right away. Besides, 60-70% of consultants are US licensed at Shifa so that might help too. 
Lastly, as to why Shifa graduates are not actively working in Pakistan set up, I mentioned that earlier, half of every batch moves abroad. The remaining do work everywhere. 
Having said all that, I do believe you can still clear the USMLE pretty easily if you graduate from RMC. It's prestigious and a lot of their graduates do clear it. If it helps, take your electives at Shifa and other places but for your degree, a government school sounds good!


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## Muzaffar Abdullah (Sep 12, 2015)

nidarasul said:


> DoctorA said:
> 
> 
> > Well if research is important to you, FUMC does a lot more research than Shifa. And I mean a lot. Shifa's students just did a really great job at promoting their college as the second best private medical college after AKU. Shifa's students stresses that it has the best research but FUMC has better. They claim their students make it to US residencies but hardly make it community hospital programs or do unaccredited fellowships to improve their CV.
> ...


This is probably the most neutral and unbiased approach to the topic. And it answers probably all queries that I asked. Thank you for your response nidrarasul ) This one really helped!


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## nidarasul (Sep 23, 2013)

Muzaffar Abdullah said:


> This is probably the most neutral and unbiased approach to the topic. And it answers probably all queries that I asked. Thank you for your response nidrarasul ) This one really helped!


Happy to be of any kind of help! Good luck with the decision!


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## kobefan234 (Jul 2, 2013)

DoctorA said:


> Well if research is important to you, FUMC does a lot more research than Shifa. And I mean a lot. Shifa's students just did a really great job at promoting their college as the second best private medical college after AKU. Shifa's students stresses that it has the best research but FUMC has better. They claim their students make it to US residencies but hardly make it community hospital programs or do unaccredited fellowships to improve their CV.


My cousin graduated from Shifa in 2010. She got a pediatrics residency in loma linda university medical center in California USA. She is now also doing fellowship...


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## rizvi (Sep 17, 2015)

So I read the entire threat and I pretty much have the same situation. However, my options are either Shifa or FMDC. Which one should I choose and why? I intend to go abroad since I'm a dual national as well.Looking forward for your replies. Thank you.


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## dcmd (Aug 28, 2015)

rizvi said:


> So I read the entire threat and I pretty much have the same situation. However, my options are either Shifa or FMDC. Which one should I choose and why? I intend to go abroad since I'm a dual national as well.Looking forward for your replies. Thank you.


If money is not an issue go for Shifa, FMDC has had lots of issues and got banned by PMDC for quite some time. In terms of education/facilities Shifa is better hands down, on the other hand FMDC is basically free.


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## nidarasul (Sep 23, 2013)

I'd say FMDC. The problem they had with PMDC was inadequate faculty. They solved that. The degree will mean more in Pakistan because FMDC is a gov college. It's cheaper and better clinical opportunities because it is affiliated with PIMS. Gov colleges rarely have problems with PMDC. Even if they do, they get solved.


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## dcmd (Aug 28, 2015)

nidarasul said:


> I'd say FMDC. The problem they had with PMDC was inadequate faculty. They solved that. The degree will mean more in Pakistan because FMDC is a gov college. It's cheaper and better clinical opportunities because it is affiliated with PIMS. Gov colleges rarely have problems with PMDC. Even if they do, they get solved.


He also says he wants to go abroad, IMO the standard of teaching at FMDC would be inferior then at Shifa and for practicing abroad your skills matter a lot.


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## nidarasul (Sep 23, 2013)

I highly doubt that. The argument that FMDC is new, doesn't really hold because government colleges don't have a funding problem or a recognition issue either. The PMDC problem was not due to their lack of facilities or bad standard. They needed more staff. They got that. 
I go to Shifa myself and while I'd advocate Shifa over every other private college apart from Agha Khan, I would still say that the clinical exposure you get at a government hospital is no where close to one you get at Shifa or any other private hospital for that matter. Because Private hospitals have paying patients who don't want to be left in the hands of students. This doesn't let students get an opportunity to learn.
Someone gave an argument that PIMS wants to get rid of FMDC. It doesn't matter what PIMS wants because it is a medical university anyway and because it's a government hospital, it doesn't really have a say in what government college it wants affiliated with it. The reputation of FMDC will rise pretty fast because it's getting a high merit and therefore bright students. The USMLE perspective isn't based on college reputation, it's based on how good the students are. I'm pretty sure when the first batch at FMDC graduates, people will make it through USMLE and PLAB and all.


dcmd said:


> He also says he wants to go abroad, IMO the standard of teaching at FMDC would be inferior then at Shifa and for practicing abroad your skills matter a lot.


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## sherazamin (Oct 29, 2015)

Shiffa is the best in evey case,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,bestmedical college,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i fin no reason why doesnt pmdc recognize this reality but i know,,sooon they would recognize the fact,,,,,,here we have some colleges with an ever changing hec and pmdc ranking,,they are just shoppers that will fly away,,,shiffa provides the best facilities and faculty in Pakistan,,,and is an internationally well known institution


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