# Life in Pakistan



## shabib (Oct 16, 2006)

Hi there, my name is Syma, and I've just joined up with this site, and I've found it incredibly helpful so far, especially in figuring out the entire process, which isn't as complicated as I thought it would be.

However, I haven't seen any threads on what student life is like, especially for a westerner, who is used to the North American life. All I can think about is what life will be like in the hostel, what kind of curfews and rules are imposed on females, and how the life is there. So for all you people attending med school in pakistan, how is it?


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## Rehan (Jan 26, 2006)

The answer to how life is for a Westerner depends mostly on which city you're planning to go to study in. If you're in Islamabad life is great -- you can find almost everything here that you would back home and stuff is for the most part pretty modernized.

Shifa's girls hostels have a 10 PM curfew every night. The guys' hostels also have the same curfew however its almost never enforced. Gotta love the double standard. All of the hostels have a security guard and cook but the security guards for the guys' hostels don't really care where you go or when you come back. The girls hostel is basically on lockdown after 10 pm.

I personally find life to be really different from back home (California) but still awesome. Every place has its plus points and negative points but in terms of what Islamabad is like, its probably the cleanest, most civilized city in all of Pakistan.


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## shabib (Oct 16, 2006)

well, i guess its to be expected. Can the security guards be bribed? 

What about the actual rooms? Do people get their own rooms, is there internet access, what kind of furniture is in there... can we decorate?


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## UltraSpy (Sep 22, 2006)

I don't know much about hostels but I do know about food in Pakistan. Food is pretty cheap if your thinking that 1 dollar is 60 rupees. Almost every resturant has good pakistani food.(It is Pakistan after all) They have some good resturants in Islamabad which offer Italian food, Chinese etc. Papasallies in Islamabad is very good. ALso i remember there was a resturant called Arizona Grille couple of years ago, I dont know if they still have it or not. Pizza Hut does not taste like pizza in america. There is a McDonald's in Rawalpindi (which is right next to Islamabad). But their burgers are VERY dry for some reason. Other than that they have Subway and KFC which taste original. About internet access they have DSL here.(or internet cards which are cheap and slow). Basically Pakistan is not as bad people think. In the first couple of weeks when you come to Pakistan, you will be depressed and angry at yourself for coming to this dump, but then as time moves on you will start to enjoy it.


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## Doc_Ammara (May 2, 2006)

Ultraspy....keep up the spirit man! you will find Pak much better place to stay for a while at least! thumbs up.


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## Sadaf (May 24, 2006)

If you have money life can be perfect in Pakistan!! Ummmm about girl hostels they are super strict like there's a list of people that can come and visit u such as family members u can't just leave when u feel like it. Basically life can be amazin in Pakistan just depends on how u structure ur life. I think lahore is an amazin place to live its full of life and majority of people there r pretty cool too..not like typical pakistanis...LAHORE IS THE BEST!!


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

There is no such thing as life in pakistan as being perfect, everything is imperfect here that is the rule. If you go to a private medical institution like aga khan then you were very smart to get admission in the first place and it is the most modern medical school in the country even south asia, built at a cost if $80 million over 20 years ago, in todays money, well, thats enought to dwarf every medical institution in pakistan over the past 20 years combined, so you catch my drift. You will have a much easier time adjusting here as everyone there has been abroad, weirdo's usually dont get admission there so their pretty liberal as well. 

Shifa is probably the 2nd best place for a foreigner to adjust to, modern, no cheap paindu people from villages going there ( i mean the locals have to pay as much as a foreigner does at other medical schools so its not cheap ) but if you havent seen other medical govt schools you will probably complain about it as being weird and so paki-ish like most of the current shifa students do who know no better.

If you are one of the many who enter into the govt med schools, first thing you do is find and locate other foreigners. Mostly their canadians who have been raised in a very supressed pakistani life style abroad and they look just like pakistanis and act and speak the same so you will have trouble finding them. Also, many pakistanis who get foreign seat admission these days get it because they have no marks taken off, they just have foreign passports from child hood but have completed their studies IN pakistan so there will be some of them maybe, they will flat out deny they are paying x thousands of dollars a year to go to the school. So, IF you are lucky, you will find another north american preson as normal as you are and just hope you both get through every year together as I find the more american you are, the less chance you have of making it all the way though.

Student life? Well, be prepared for 6 days a week total confusion for the first few months, the heat, the ugly facilities, the paint peeling off, the diarrhea, the not knowing what to do what to study thing as well as adjusting to the country. Student life doesnt exist, either your a "hostelite" or your a "day scholar". If you live in the hostel, for girls I guess its not as bad you might have your own room. They are more strict with females. Males they do whatever they want. If you are from USA you will take one look at a govt. hostel and run the other way so if you can stay with family or get your own place on rent, if you can manage your food, security bills etc then its better option, hostel would be a last option specially if you cant squat down every day and take cold showers and hear bollywood music blaring down the hallways all the time. 

But, the good thing is if you stick it out, THINGS DO GET BETTER, you get used to it too. As far as being in a govt school, you'll notice 80% of the students come from an underprivledged background, their not middle class even if they have a $300 cell phone. These students might have even gone to urdu medium schools, and they have no past experience with foreigners whatsoever. They will stare at you initially, ask weird questions like if you have girlfriends in america, and the MOST common question you will get sick of hearing "WHY DID YOU COME TO PAKISTAN TO STUDY when everyone is going to usa" just say "I moved here, not for school though". 

Its not that bad though not trying to discourage anyone, just helping you know what to expect. In my honest honest honest humble opinion if your a totally UMREEKAN Foreigner, try deadly hard to get into aga khan, baqai, or shifa. The studies are also less intense there (in my very honest opinion). Even if you have to take a year longer to get admitted, but if you end up in a govt college, dont sweat it. 

Rawalpindi Medical College:
Pros:
Near Islamabad
Cons:
Girls are stuck up, very conservative atmosphere in the class room. But as time goes from first year to fifth year, you will notice hijbabs dissappear, they start wearing make up, they switch to jeans and high heals and more brighter clothes and are more open to talking to guys, not sure why this is. Our studies have showin its their last chance to find a guy before med school is over.

King Edward:
Pros:
Girls are friendly right from the get go I hear. Very liberal atmosphere as students who get admission here are usually brighter and from more modern families unlike other places which are villagers.
Cons: 
Expensive for foreigners, much tougher studies.


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## shabib (Oct 16, 2006)

thank you so much for all that information. definitely answered a lot of my questions.

at the moment, I really want to go to Shifa or Aga Khan I just hope I can get in. When do the school years start for the both of them?


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## Rehan (Jan 26, 2006)

shabib said:


> thank you so much for all that information. definitely answered a lot of my questions.
> 
> at the moment, I really want to go to Shifa or Aga Khan I just hope I can get in. When do the school years start for the both of them?


Aga Khan starts around the beginning of October and Shifa starts first week of January usually.


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

shabib said:


> thank you so much for all that information. definitely answered a lot of my questions.
> 
> at the moment, I really want to go to Shifa or Aga Khan I just hope I can get in. When do the school years start for the both of them?


I believe they start in January, most govt colleges start around there, aka november, december, janary or february somethin like that.

Read your blog a bit, just dont get the wrong impression, its not THAT bad. I mean, mosqito's the size of buttery flies and ****roaches that you try to jump on to kill and find their carrying you somewhere. BUT.. WE DO HAVE SOUR CREAM AND ONION CHIPS!


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## Sadia (May 19, 2006)

> Rawalpindi Medical College:
> Pros:
> Near Islamabad
> Cons:
> ...


its nice to know how girls contribute to ones decision making when it comes to med schools #roll


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

Sadia said:


> its nice to know how girls contribute to ones decision making when it comes to med schools #roll


Who says it has anything to do with girls. Its trying to give people a general idea of the social environment which is a major factor a foreigner needs to consider when making their decision. Unless you want the Pakistani advice which is as follows.

"Why do you care which medical college you are admitted too? A college is a college"

Which basically means most people dont get in, be happy to get in wherever you go, and your just going to have to learn everything on your own anyway the admission part is just a formality.


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Easy.


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

Is that a demand from our highly respected moderator or a kind request#growl


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## Rehan (Jan 26, 2006)

I don't think maik7upurz meant to offend anyone -- just trying to give someone who's new to the situation an idea of what he's observed over the last few years here.

Things really are different and as much as a lot of us would like to ignore the double standard and gender inequality, it definitely _*does*_ still exist in Pakistan.


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## Sadia (May 19, 2006)

maik7upurz said:


> Who says it has anything to do with girls. Its trying to give people a general idea of the social environment which is a major factor a foreigner needs to consider when making their decision. Unless you want the Pakistani advice which is as follows.


please do forgive me..for some reason i thought a social environment consisted of more than the atitude girls hold...


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## shabib (Oct 16, 2006)

well, I think he's being honest, thats a good thing... if I'm going to be living in a hostel it's important to know what the girls are like... i heard that there are a lot of kleptos though  The question that comes to mind for me though, is what are the guys like? Complete perverts... or decent human beings? 

Also, maik7upurz, you will not believe how relieved I am to hear that they've got sour cream n onion chips. I know its a horrible thing to think, but my impression of pakistan is basically of paindus... not a good thing, but I haven't been there for 13 years. Thanks for clearing up that misconception


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## Sadia (May 19, 2006)

im only messin..its not a personal jab or anythin towards maik7upurz he is of course a very valued member of this forum ..and shabib truss me pakistan has changed over the past 13 years..iv been conducting a personal longitudinal study and have found major changes....


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## Rehan (Jan 26, 2006)

You'll find guys and girls to all be different in some ways and similar in others. We're all still human but at first you'll naturally find more in common and make closer friendships with others who have came from the US/Canada/UK and are going through the same thing you are.

I don't know about you, but I personally love going to a school where there's a lot of foreigners like Shifa just because it makes the transition so much easier. Not to say that you won't become friends with the local Pakistani students, because you will, but just having other people who know what its like to sit in Pakistan and drool over some American cuisine sometimes makes it easier. #rofl

P.S. Ix-nay on the aindu-pay -- its seen as a pretty serious insult. Thanks!


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

Some guys are decent, but most of them have never talked to a girl so they will make excuses up like "can I borrow your notes to copy them" as a way to come up and talk to you, so you will find that most parties keep to their own in government schools. How should I put this... In private schools, you will find it comparble to the high school american environment in some way. In Govt schools, you will find it like Junior high school in El Salvador or something. I mean seriously most these students have been living with their families in some rural pakistan area their whole life they worked HARD to get admisison and now they just want to have fun, go wild in the hostels, stay up late at night, watch bollywood movies etc. I guess when the teacher turns around they go crazy screaming throwing spit wads. Even with the super strict teachers they can act like 10 year olds and you will not believe these are future doctors. Id say only by 5th year do they mature up a bit or get tired of acting so immature.


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## Sadia (May 19, 2006)

if there were better employment oppurtunites for me in the uk with a pakistani MBBS i would so study in pakistan, solely for the experience of being there!, regardless of how much i may winge when im there..i always know deep down that i'll miss it like no1s business when i get back..so i guess i envy the peeps studying there right now...


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## Rehan (Jan 26, 2006)

shabib said:


> well, i guess its to be expected. Can the security guards be bribed?
> 
> What about the actual rooms? Do people get their own rooms, is there internet access, what kind of furniture is in there... can we decorate?


At Shifa, you were able to previously pay extra and get your own room but I've heard they're trying to stop that policy because they've been running out of available rooms in the last couple of years -- so most people will share a room with one other person. 

You can get internet in the dorms in two different ways -- 1) Wireless Internet is an option but it is expensive or 2) setting up DSL through the phone line which is much cheaper (and faster) than the wireless option.

I know some of the American guys living in the hostel have DSL setup so they can call home over VOIP technology programs such as Skype and they're also able to have local phone #'s in America that their family and friends can call as a local call which routes to their computer in Pakistan.

In terms of furniture, Shifa's hostels/dorms give you a bed, a little end table next to your bed and a desk to study on. Furniture other than that is pretty limited but you can set up your room however you want it. When I was living in the hostel we pimped it out pretty nicely and it was really comfortable -- its all up to you how much time/effort/money you want to put into it.


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## kaleem (Sep 11, 2006)

do ppl blaze over there


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## Rehan (Jan 26, 2006)

Sure do.


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

shabib said:


> well, i guess its to be expected. Can the security guards be bribed?
> 
> What about the actual rooms? Do people get their own rooms, is there internet access, what kind of furniture is in there... can we decorate?


For Govt Schools, if your a Foreigner on Self Finance, you get first preference on choice of room and I think you can get your own room if you pay extra. Furniture? NON EXISTANT. Most students just have a foam mattress on the floors. Occasionally you will see cockroaches and lizards running around and you will eventually give them names like Haresh or Kumar. Internet access in a govt med dorm is also NON existant, heck there isnt internet access in the actual school!! The closest thing is an internet cafe accross the streets where you will pay Rs. 10 an hour to share a slow 48kbps connection divided over 10 computers. You wont have a phone line even so kinda hard to get it in your room, although they have this wireless phone thing but you need to install an antenna for that so not sure how that will work. I guess if your really picky about just msn and checking your email you can get internet through your cell phone and connect it to your laptop but it will cost Rs. 15 a megabyte for now.

Decoration is totally up to you, altough you will probably want to paint your room yourself with your own money probably. Airconditioners arent allowed really, so most students have water coolers (youll see) that just blow water around the room in tiny drops that supposedly make the room cooler but their VERY NOISY. Heaters are allowed in the winter though. Hostel food, well.. Your colon is in for a ride of its life!!!

I know most foreigners who come to PK including me planned to live in the Hostels but after one glance at an RMC one , you will change your mind. I hear the girls side isnt that bad at all though.


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## kaleem (Sep 11, 2006)

Rehan said:


> Sure do.


they got good hash in pakistan or wut....but i heard from a family friend over there that ppl snitch on u and teachers will fail u if u do it...clear that up


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## Rehan (Jan 26, 2006)

kaleem said:


> they got good hash in pakistan or wut....but i heard from a family friend over there that ppl snitch on u and teachers will fail u if u do it...clear that up


Right.....

No more questions about illegal drugs in this thread. Thanks.


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## shabib (Oct 16, 2006)

sorry about the usage of the p-word, wont happen again 

Agh, now I'm terrified about hostel life... thanks a lot! The naming of the cockroaches sounds somewhat entertaining though. I think I'm up to the challenge of living in a hostel though... as long as I can get my own room. Thanks all of you so much for the info, I've got a couple other questions, but they aren't coming to mind at the moment, so I'll have to remember later.

oh wait! Now i remember. Is it dangerous? Like is Islamabad in constant fear of being invaded by American troops. Because they bombed a school yesterday, in Peshawar I think...

also, i read somewhere that students are not allowed to have political affilations... does that mean if there is a protest against something like what happened yesterday that students are not allowed to go?


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## Rehan (Jan 26, 2006)

shabib said:


> sorry about the usage of the p-word, wont happen again
> 
> Agh, now I'm terrified about hostel life... thanks a lot! The naming of the cockroaches sounds somewhat entertaining though. I think I'm up to the challenge of living in a hostel though... as long as I can get my own room. Thanks all of you so much for the info, I've got a couple other questions, but they aren't coming to mind at the moment, so I'll have to remember later.
> 
> ...


I'd say living in Pakistan is not dangerous at all provided you have some common sense. Don't go out late at night alone to places you're not familiar with, etc, etc. Other than that stuff, Islamabad is very safe! It definitely has that very small town feel to it and nobody really messes with anyone else. Lahore is Pakistan's version of the city that never sleeps so even that is pretty safe as long as you go out in a group at night time. But yeah, I'd say living here is no more dangerous than living in America, or Canada, or Djibouti. Well maybe not Djibouti #rofl

Your other question regarding political affiliations only means that students cannot unionize and use their schools to form political factions or to become strongly inolved in the political process. This rule was established because the country's political parties would prey on students by enticing them with all sorts of impossible promises and use them for their own gains -- also students would join together and go on strike and break down school buildings whenever there would be a disagreement between the administration and students --- sooo not sure if its the most democratic of rules but its not something that's going to affect you very much if at all. You can still go protest w/ the best of them. #grin


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

Its not dangerous. Prince Charles is here, angelina jolie was here the other day hah (more like a few months), Elizabeth Hurley came and slept with Imran Khan (also a charity event). 

Political? Its not a big deal just sign a paper saying you wont join any protests outside the college. This is so the school doesnt get a bad name because you do something weird and show up on tv burning a flag of some other country or something hah


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## atenolol (Jan 26, 2006)

Pakistan doesn't suck.....if you live in a luxury apartment/house in the F sectors of Islamabad. Otherwise, yeah it sucks.

Pizza Hut, McD's, 1p2p this december. F-11 represent w00t!


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## atenolol (Jan 26, 2006)

Shifa Pride.


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## Majid (Jan 28, 2006)

Sadia said:


> if there were better employment oppurtunites for me in the uk with a pakistani MBBS i would so study in pakistan, solely for the experience of being there!, regardless of how much i may winge when im there..i always know deep down that i'll miss it like no1s business when i get back..so i guess i envy the peeps studying there right now...


Interesting point. I wanted to know what are the employment oppurtunities for people who study in Pakistan but are British? So if someone does a medical degree there, has a British passport, is the chance good of them getting a job?

It should be, shouldn't it?



kaleem said:


> they got good hash in pakistan or wut....but i heard from a family friend over there that ppl snitch on u and teachers will fail u if u do it...clear that up


mate, do you know what drugs can do to you?

here's a brief paragraph about it:

*"Mental health problems*
There is growing evidence that people with serious mental illness, including depression and psychosis, are more likely to use cannabis or have used it for long periods of time in the past. Regular use of the drug has appeared to double the risk of developing a psychotic episode or long-term schizophrenia. However, does cannabis cause depression and schizophrenia or do people with these disorders use it as a medication?

Over the past few years, research has strongly suggested that there is a clear link between early cannabis use and later mental health problems in those with a genetic vulnerability - and that there is a particular issue with the use of cannabis by adolescents."


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## Sadia (May 19, 2006)

i was shadowing at my local GP surgery this summer..and he was a pakistani man (registered) and all..however..he let me observe the other "Dr's" too..who were pakistani nationals..with their MBBS from pak..one doc was a RMC graduate, and the other studied somewhere in karachi...they had both done their PLAB but still needed to complete some more training (iv forgotten what its called) THIS training was actually the problem regardless of their PLAB and the amount of experience they had in pak they couldnt find an attachment here..which is WHY they cannot be registered here, hence "the pakistani docs" being paid the same wage as ADMIN workers..which does take the biscuit...so they advised me to keep myself in the uk and study here...(regardless of how much i wanna go study in pak)...


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## Majid (Jan 28, 2006)

Sadia said:


> i was shadowing at my local GP surgery this summer..and he was a pakistani man (registered) and all..however..he let me observe the other "Dr's" too..who were pakistani nationals..with their MBBS from pak..one doc was a RMC graduate, and the other studied somewhere in karachi...they had both done their PLAB but still needed to complete some more training (iv forgotten what its called) THIS training was actually the problem regardless of their PLAB and the amount of experience they had in pak they couldnt find an attachment here..which is WHY they cannot be registered here, hence "the pakistani docs" being paid the same wage as ADMIN workers..which does take the biscuit...so they advised me to keep myself in the uk and study here...(regardless of how much i wanna go study in pak)...


Yeh that's true about Pakistani nationals. Now a days it's becoming harder to find jobs, since EU is getting bigger.

But I was wondering what if you're a British national and do a degree from abroad, will it be easier for you to find a job?

I think it may be easier (though i have no idea) because there will be less paper work, since you're already British....

But yeh you will still have to take the PLAB exams.


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

Sadia said:


> i was shadowing at my local GP surgery this summer..and he was a pakistani man (registered) and all..however..he let me observe the other "Dr's" too..who were pakistani nationals..with their MBBS from pak..one doc was a RMC graduate, and the other studied somewhere in karachi...they had both done their PLAB but still needed to complete some more training (iv forgotten what its called) THIS training was actually the problem regardless of their PLAB and the amount of experience they had in pak they couldnt find an attachment here..which is WHY they cannot be registered here, hence "the pakistani docs" being paid the same wage as ADMIN workers..which does take the biscuit...so they advised me to keep myself in the uk and study here...(regardless of how much i wanna go study in pak)...


Are you really 43 like it says in your profile? heh.

Anyway, there are different kinds of doctors. Many of the people who study in Pakistan, the natives, just memorize for 5 years they dont really know anything, but somehow they manage to pass plabs/usmles and get a visa to go abroad. Then there are some good students who get through just fine and practice, you can find this out by typing college names and seeing doctors working in hospitals and the college they graduated from.

If your a foreigner and come to pakistan to study and can pass your board exams you won't have that difficult a time, its just about hard work really. I dont know how the british medical system works though since its all nationalized but from the american perspective the goal is to get the medical degree, take the usmle, get a residency for a few years and then start a private practice and THEN get paid #wink


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## malik_saabjee (Aug 24, 2006)

How can she be 43 and still pre-medical

Weird, if true!


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## Majid (Jan 28, 2006)

maik7upurz said:


> Are you really 43 like it says in your profile? heh.
> 
> Anyway, there are different kinds of doctors. Many of the people who study in Pakistan, the natives, just memorize for 5 years they dont really know anything, but somehow they manage to pass plabs/usmles and get a visa to go abroad. Then there are some good students who get through just fine and practice, you can find this out by typing college names and seeing doctors working in hospitals and the college they graduated from.
> 
> If your a foreigner and come to pakistan to study and can pass your board exams you won't have that difficult a time, its just about hard work really. I dont know how the british medical system works though since its all nationalized but from the american perspective the goal is to get the medical degree, take the usmle, get a residency for a few years and then start a private practice and THEN get paid #wink


Yeh the American system is fairer now.

Because in the British system, recently they want to bring in some new laws, where they will prefer doctors who are from Britain or EU ahead of international medical graduates.

So it's not about how you do in exams, but from where you came from.


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

Majid said:


> Yeh the American system is fairer now.
> 
> Because in the British system, recently they want to bring in some new laws, where they will prefer doctors who are from Britain or EU ahead of international medical graduates.
> 
> So it's not about how you do in exams, but from where you came from.


Its the same in USA. First they prefer American citizen american grad then american citizen foreign grad, then lastly foreign citizen foreign grad. The thing about usa though is that its so vast and there are so many needs of doctors in under privledged areas that you will always be able to find some program eventually if your pre-req's are in line.

Unfortunately for EU or UK the system is altogether different but I still believe a UK or EU national going abroad and coming back will have less of a problem but thats the tradeoff. EVENTUALLY you will get something and those fears are not totally justified for avoiding foreign education. But obviously if you can get the education in the UK or EU it would be 10 times as better!


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## Majid (Jan 28, 2006)

maik7upurz said:


> Its the same in USA. First they prefer American citizen american grad then american citizen foreign grad, then lastly foreign citizen foreign grad. The thing about usa though is that its so vast and there are so many needs of doctors in under privledged areas that you will always be able to find some program eventually if your pre-req's are in line.
> 
> Unfortunately for EU or UK the system is altogether different but I still believe a UK or EU national going abroad and coming back will have less of a problem but thats the tradeoff. EVENTUALLY you will get something and those fears are not totally justified for avoiding foreign education. But obviously if you can get the education in the UK or EU it would be 10 times as better!


Yeh that's true.

Problem in UK is there's just so many applicants, and not that much universities compared to the demand. I think there should be private universities in UK for medicine, because i'm sure they will be of a good standard...and also a lot of UK applicants who dont get in, are now going to other places, e.g. in Europe e.t.c.


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## Sadia (May 19, 2006)

naaah guys im not 43...gona get 1 of the admins to sort that out 4 me...saying that..iv heard of people who are 49 and are 1st year medics..thass jus gangstaaa... (i joke i joke)..im givin myself 2 tries in gettin in2 a uk med school..if it doesnt happen im going to pak..regardless of the employment prospects its all "allah di marzi"..erm i dunno how to say that in english #confused 



n if physics is wat they want...il do that to *shudders*


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## Majid (Jan 28, 2006)

yeh i chose physics just incase i dont get in here


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## Sadia (May 19, 2006)

doin chem n bio this yr..if (Allah na karey/ god forbid) i dont get in il be picking up physics next yr (ew ew ew)..n if i dont do that il jus go 2 some other "muslim" country..so my parents are assured that im safe.


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## Majid (Jan 28, 2006)

Sadia said:


> doin chem n bio this yr..if (Allah na karey/ god forbid) i dont get in il be picking up physics next yr (ew ew ew)..n if i dont do that il jus go 2 some other "muslim" country..so my parents are assured that im safe.


true that's a good option to take physics next year for people who want a backup if they dont get into UK and they wanna do 100% the medicine course....

but man why do PAKISTAN NEED PHYSICS...


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## SalSabeel (Nov 26, 2006)

I wonder the same thing!! I have to take a seperate physics course outside of school because i refuse to take physics in school, b/c the teacher is a WITCH!! but anyhow, i heard physics isn't thaaaat bad?? Did anyone take their SAT 2's in physics?? 





:happy:


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## Sadia (May 19, 2006)

the last time i did physics was 5 yrs ago! and the only thing i remember is velocity and a parachute..dont see any relevance to med at all..khair if they want physics we jus gotta do physics i guess


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## shabib (Oct 16, 2006)

> Interesting point. I wanted to know what are the employment oppurtunities for people who study in Pakistan but are British? So if someone does a medical degree there, has a British passport, is the chance good of them getting a job?
> 
> It should be, shouldn't it?


I was actually wondering the same thing, except I want to know how it is for Canadian born students who get a medical degree somewhere else. Does anybody know?


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## sh425 (Nov 28, 2006)

random question! are they opening a zara (clothing store) in islamabad?

what up with this new mall thing i keep hearing people talkin about


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## sabubu (Jan 2, 2007)

i just started taking physics at this uni because my high school physics teacher is also a WITCH!! about the SAT II's my friend took it for physics and he got a 750 he said it was a piece of cake as long as you knew the basics...i have no idea what that means :O!!! i think i'm might stay here for a year and then apply - sample some of that college life everybody keeps talking bout #wink


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## Sadia (May 19, 2006)

sh425 said:


> random question! are they opening a zara (clothing store) in islamabad?
> 
> what up with this new mall thing i keep hearing people talkin about


 
zara clear lipgloss is the shiz... #yes


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## sh425 (Nov 28, 2006)

heck yes it is!..sooo are they opening one in islamabad... cuuuz that would be pretttyyy sweeeeet.


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## drbruin06 (Jan 18, 2007)

*Totally Agree with Malik*

Hey there...
I totally agree with Malik on his assessment on life here in Pakiland! I go to King Edward in Lahore, mind you, I was born and raised in California, I went to a reputable University there for undergrad, and I ended up here. I was very depressed when I first came here...KE is in a slum, girls and guys are completely segregated for the first two years, the professors are jerks for the most part. Local students are pricks and they lie 2 you abt what to study, even other foreign students are weird...I guess I say that bc I am a confessed ABCD, you know, my URDU/Punjabi skills suck. But with all that said, you do get used to it here. My advice is to go to class everyday, DONT SKIP! Even if you think people are proxying you, they are prob lying! Do not live in the hostels, unless you can stand living in a slum, surrounded by filth! Do not live with relatives unless you completely trust them and they are there to look out for YOUR best interest, not their own. These are my own observations, Im sure everyone else has their own. At the end of the day, Pakistan is not a tourist destination, and we are not here for a vacation, it sucks, but we are here to study, if you keep that attitude, you will get by


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

WORD.


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

well put dr bruise. Who is malik anyway?


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2007)

is anyone applyin for dentistry BDS from the UK to pak dental schools?


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## Myelin (Jan 19, 2007)

I do not understand, why students from America want to come to Pakistan. Pakistan is a 3rd World country.

There is standardization of all the products here but, compared to America, Middleeast and few other 1st World countries, it is inferior.

Examples: The 100k is considered broadband here. All the branded products have inferior quality, there is so much counterfeit products here, it is ranked 146th in corruption, the examination system is decades old, literacy level is extremely low; the doctors are judged as big doctor and small doctor. Once you tell someone that you are not the professor or not the big doctor, that patient will become uncooperative.

What else you want to hear. I can write and write and write. My advice: Do not come here.


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

It may be difficult, but it's not impossible to live here. All that stuff is of little importance when you're only going to spend five years there to get a medical degree which you would have a much longer and more difficult time getting in the US.

I disagree with your opinion of there being standardization of products here, but if it did exist, it sure would make life a little less stressful out here.


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## Myelin (Jan 19, 2007)

But spending 5 years for MBBS and then doing USMLE does not make any sense to me. The educational resources available in US are much more superior then here.

In US there is a modern method of teaching based on research, here its very old method. 

I just gave my opinion. All of my opinions are based on KEMU in Lahore.

The standardization of most of the products is not present, but its being adopted, the international brands follow there own standard. But all of it is inferior to 1st world country.


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Medical school for the first three years is the same everywhere. It's taught out of the same basic sciences books. Clinical teaching is much better abroad than it is in the US because almost everything has already been cured or vaccinated against in the western countries. You have a lot more exposure to different clinical scenarios in person in a Pakistani medical school. In one day you'll see ten patients with hepatitis, ten with hernias, ten with diabetes, ten with chromosomal abnormalities, etc, etc, the list goes on. To get that same exposure in the US you'd have to spend a lifetime in the clinic.

The methods of teaching basic sciences here are the same as they are in the US, more or less. Clinical experience in Pakistan is far better than American med schools, and it's for this reason that westerns do their electives in 3rd world countries, instead of their own hospitals.

Besides, you do most of the real learning once you get a residency. In my opinion that's the only point where it becomes necessary to learn the most advanced treatments and practices.


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## badshah (Oct 22, 2006)

how is education in U.A.E????? technology wise.....
better than Pak?


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## Myelin (Jan 19, 2007)

@MastahRiz: I will have to agree with the clinical experience part. There are far more patients found in a 3rd world country then in a 1st world country.


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## cooldude89 (Feb 14, 2007)

so what does like consist of for students in Lahore, like are their any sports clubs or hang-out places out side of med school, or is like for a med student study, study, study???????????????


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## awaiseali (Apr 17, 2007)

shabib said:


> Hi there, my name is Syma, and I've just joined up with this site, and I've found it incredibly helpful so far, especially in figuring out the entire process, which isn't as complicated as I thought it would be.
> 
> However, I haven't seen any threads on what student life is like, especially for a westerner, who is used to the North American life. All I can think about is what life will be like in the hostel, what kind of curfews and rules are imposed on females, and how the life is there. So for all you people attending med school in pakistan, how is it?


u will find it as if u have landed on another planet. pakistan is in the eyes of many economists 150 years behind the western world. so its basically like a jungle. dont be fooled by the dramas u c on ptv etc. these are the houses of the fuedal lords. vadaireh as they are known in punjabi. 

any way islamabad is ok. girls hostels are not brilliant. heard a lot of *****ing goes on their. if altaf hussain was dead, then karachi would be the place 2 go, coz itz the modernest city in pakiland. but lotz of terorism going on at the moment. not safe. 

lahore is the cultural heart of pakistan. it boasts the large infamous whorehouse heera mundi behind the red mosque!!! astagfirullah! its the hangout of local pimps and film directors. mostly bhutts n khanz. 

overall ur best bet in pakistan if u want a decent social life is shifa. itz not gonna be like spring break in miami but if u wanna go third world then u gotta accept it. 

ne way, i chat no bull, if u want sum sincere blunt advice, holla.


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## awaiseali (Apr 17, 2007)

Sadia said:


> the last time i did physics was 5 yrs ago! and the only thing i remember is velocity and a parachute..dont see any relevance to med at all..khair if they want physics we jus gotta do physics i guess


 
kasme sadia u sound like a legit person. dont go 2 a muslim country 2 study. this is folish thinkin. been dere dun dat. got shafted in pakiland! keep it european. [English only please! ]


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## Bushi (Apr 24, 2007)

Ammmm ? personally I don?t know how is life in Pakistan except from my 3 weeks holiday period encounters . But when I was 10 my parents took us there for 8 months and it wasn?t bad at all.
I haf such a good experience from that trip, that INSHALLAH Once I m done I m planning to go to Pakistan for my practical life .. as I will get a lot exposure of oral cancer patients as a lot of people in pak suffer from oral cancer because of the eating habit of pan! ? 
Anyway back to the topic . .. Pakistan was always my first choice but as my grandmother passed away last year so I didn?t had that much corrage to go to Pakistan without her being there ?. If I would hav gone there i would had luxury life for 5 yrs .. 
Hey ppl if we compare Pakistani to European students then I would rather live in pak then in Europe. For example:
i have to do my own food shopping . . u guys u don?t even knw how does it feel to carry 5 litters of water to 4th floor including all the heavy stuff .. But If I was in Pakistan then I woud hav had some helper doing that for me (Ok I knw this is called independence but man I m sick n tired of doing everything my self )

I have to cook or order whether I got exams or I m dying .. Ohhh yeh I also have to live on vegetarian cuisine .. As I m Muslim so halal food is not at all available in my part of world ?.. But If I was in Pakistan then I wouldn?t have to worry abt cooking n I could eat anything .. God it takes me hours to do food shopping as I hav to check on all the food labels if they r suitable for vegetarians !

I have to do my own laundry .. As getting ur laundry done is pretty expensive? but hey in Pakistan .. U have ur laundry man .. He even iron ur clothes .. What?s there to complain about .. 

I have to walk take a bus, tram or a cab every where but hey in Pakistan u get a driver ?. Or probably ur own car as u don?t have to pay the insurance stuff in pak so its not at all expensive to have a car.

I hardly get to speak my own mother tongue on regularly basis .. Only with my parents but hey in Pakistan u don?t have to check whether they can speak Urdu or not so u can practice your Urdu speaking skills! ( ohh I would consider my self very lucky if I can find any Pakistanis apart from the 4 at my uni who are totally coconuts)

I have to pray a lot of KAZA (late) prays .. As the pray timing r all upside down with my classes .. But hey in Pakistan on Friday u get a half day .. U get to be a good Muslim .. 

You get to attend all the family wedding ?. N I get to attend occasionally church weddings .

If you have contacts then you probably get your way out of the medical school .. Trust me .. When I was applying a lot of my parents friends were ready to help me during my studies weird na but that?s the truth .. Its not only in Pakistan its every where contacts always help! but they won?t do any good in the future .as they won?t be there for u when u need to diagnose a disease! 

I have to clean my own room .. Ok I don?t mind doing that but if ur a boy then imagine ur room get cleaned by blink of ur eyes.

When I fast ppl would ask me 1000 of questions? when I m dying of hurger n thirst .. But hey in Pakistan fasting is normal so u won?t get treated as If u going to die any secound .. 

Eid is nothing its normal day in school but if u want to u can hav day off .. But in pak u get to see the real eid!

You get to wear the traditional clothes out side not just only in ur room .. As if u where it outside at my part of the world then ppl might think that I m sum terrorist. 

Ohh yeh being a gal .. I hav to plunk my own eyebrows .. N man that? hurts n take a lot of time .. But in pak u can go to the beauty parlour as many times as possible as it soo cheap! .. 

You get to live at ur own house if u have one near ur university .. But then u can probably rent out one as its not expensive ? god I had it all plan me living all by my self n my nani ama at my home .. Not in sticky domes .. With ppl who don?t consider that other ppl have exams .. I actually have to put ear plugs at night if I want to sleep! 

Ok these r few points which really makes me think .. I should hav gone to Pakistan .. But hey I have surrived 20 years in Europe .. So these 4 years would go aswell .. N I mplaning to visit pak quite often !
However life is not that bad .. We all have right to moan and sometime what we have we don?t realize and consider other people as luckier than us .. But ALLHUMDULIA .. Apart from occasional moans .. Its not that bad but Pakistan could have been 110% better if my nani ama was still alive!

:happy:


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## Rehan (Jan 26, 2006)

Great post Bushi! A ton of reasons why living in Pakistan isn't that bad at all.

I especially enjoyed the blinking my eyes and having my room cleaned part!


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## Wasanbaloch (Apr 4, 2006)

My question is to all of you in a Pakistani medical school. Have the current politcal situations in Pakistan made any difference on your lives? I would really wonna hear from the Shifa students, because yesterday in Islamabad they had some crazy protests n all that stuff, also from students in Karachi, with the whole situation which occured last week.


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## Rehan (Jan 26, 2006)

Islamabad's pretty much been the same. Media outlets tend to exaggerate a lot of the time. Parliament Row and a few parts of the city have seen more police around lately but not much more than that. For a while it had gotten pretty bad about 3 years ago when there were assassination attempts on President Musharraf. They had military police checkpoints all over the city and were checking cars at random all the time, but nowadays stuff is pretty normal.


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Rehan said:


> Islamabad's pretty much been the same. Media outlets tend to exaggerate a lot of the time. Parliament Row and a few parts of the city have seen more police around lately but not much more than that. For a while it had gotten pretty bad about 3 years ago when there were assassination attempts on President Musharraf. They had military police checkpoints all over the city and were checking cars at random all the time, but nowadays stuff is pretty normal.


yeah that sums it up alright. Stores here or there also close down if there's an occasional march or something, but that's rare too. In the last four years Islamabad has been nothing but an absolutely serene city for me. No huge dramatic events, sorry to say #roll


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## soursugar (Dec 31, 2006)

hey ppl i wanna know how the ppl are at the unis... i heard there's no social life for foreigners... i plan on going sumwhere in lahore but sum1 told me its boring... one of the main reason i want to go to paki is cuz i've lived in the states or saudi my whole life n i want to try living in paki but im terrified by the idea tht there's no social life for foreigners... is it hard to find ppl like ourselves or is it all exaggerated? is it easy to fit in... i noe the adjusting part is gonna take time but what abt finding a group of gud friends? how hard is tht?


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

People are the same at medical colleges here in Pakistan as they are in any medical college. There'll be really honest people, really selfish people, friendly people, and rude and angry people. The people are always of all sorts.

There is a social life, but it's just not as extravagant as it is in the US. You don't have things like shopping malls, movie theaters, clubs, or amusement parks. The usual hang out is getting together with a few friends, going out for dinner, and then walking around the local market for a while. Other than going out to eat, you can get a group of guys together for sports, which will most likely be cricket/soccer/basketball.

It really depends on how you're set up here though. If you spend enough money, you can be living in a nice apartment and set yourself up with computers, xbox/ps, home theater system, or anything else that you think you might need to make the perfect place to relax.

Lahore is actually known to be one of the busiest cities of Pakistan, so there's definitely more to do there than there is in the smaller cities, like Islamabad or Rawalpindi.

You can always find other foreigners- there are some at every college. It's not hard to fit in as long as you make a small effort, and finding good friends is not difficult either.


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## Scorpio89 (Dec 12, 2006)

Myelin said:


> I do not understand, why students from America want to come to Pakistan. Pakistan is a 3rd World country.
> 
> There is standardization of all the products here but, compared to America, Middleeast and few other 1st World countries, it is inferior.
> 
> ...


i'm thinking of moving to pakistan to study in Agha khan uni...simply cos of the lower grade boundries.....
cant beat 3Bs' for medical can you???#wink


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## awaiseali (Apr 17, 2007)

Scorpio89 said:


> i'm thinking of moving to pakistan to study in Agha khan uni...simply cos of the lower grade boundries.....
> cant beat 3Bs' for medical can you???#wink


bruv 3bs are not bad grades at all!!! 
it will probably convert to like in the high 800s or low 900s in the paki conversions-which is standard admission rates 4 pakistan. 

u can get into europe with those gardes easy. no bull. 

better class degree, no plab flavas to do. ur laughing!

read my thread on pakistan, its the holy grail of life in pakistan. 

anyway, whatever u decide good luk wit it. syf.


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## awaiseali (Apr 17, 2007)

drbruin06 said:


> Hey there...
> I totally agree with Malik on his assessment on life here in Pakiland! I go to King Edward in Lahore, mind you, I was born and raised in California, I went to a reputable University there for undergrad, and I ended up here. I was very depressed when I first came here...KE is in a slum, girls and guys are completely segregated for the first two years, the professors are jerks for the most part. Local students are pricks and they lie 2 you abt what to study, even other foreign students are weird...I guess I say that bc I am a confessed ABCD, you know, my URDU/Punjabi skills suck. But with all that said, you do get used to it here. My advice is to go to class everyday, DONT SKIP! Even if you think people are proxying you, they are prob lying! Do not live in the hostels, unless you can stand living in a slum, surrounded by filth! Do not live with relatives unless you completely trust them and they are there to look out for YOUR best interest, not their own. These are my own observations, Im sure everyone else has their own. At the end of the day, Pakistan is not a tourist destination, and we are not here for a vacation, it sucks, but we are here to study, if you keep that attitude, you will get by


couldnt agree wit u more brother! ur tellin it how it is and i admire u 4 that. ur not chattinjg breeze and making it out to be al gravy- its a syphilis infested slum but hey u need the mbbs and ur being a man and knuckling down to the job in hand n keeping those freshies in check. good luk 2 ya.


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## awaiseali (Apr 17, 2007)

Myelin said:


> I do not understand, why students from America want to come to Pakistan. Pakistan is a 3rd World country.
> 
> There is standardization of all the products here but, compared to America, Middleeast and few other 1st World countries, it is inferior.
> 
> ...


aha- i hear ya!!!


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## Wasanbaloch (Apr 4, 2006)

#frownAwaiseali!! are you kidding me! what in gods name are you discussing here! this is medical school forum not a illegal drug forum! i dont know about you, but most of us are going to Pakistan for a medical education and not to study the underground drug business


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## Scorpio89 (Dec 12, 2006)

Wasanbaloch said:


> #frownAwaiseali!! are you kidding me! what in gods name are you discussing here! this is medical school forum not a illegal drug forum! i dont know about you, but most of us are going to Pakistan for a medical education and not to study the underground drug business


 
k....fine....i admit....i may move to pkstn for the lower grade boundries on medicine....but y does it have lower grades.....
i dnt c the logic be hind....
not that im complaining or anyfink....
any thoughts?#confused


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

The lower grade boundaries aren't as low as you may think. It's still very, *very* competitive for foreigners to get into a medical school in Pakistan. It's not just a place where you can show them your foreign passport + currency and wait for them to roll out the red carpet. More and more foreigners are applying every year, and many of them have perfect GPA's and test scores. You'll be very lucky to get accepted with 3.0 average.

Also, this is a *Life in Pakistan* thread, so questions regarding admissions and chances of admission with different grades all belong in the threads already exist and cover those topics extensively.

Please stay on topic.

Thanks.


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## ambianum (May 3, 2007)

HEy anyone know about the dorms of DOW? Or is the hostel life the same every where?


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## Scorpio89 (Dec 12, 2006)

THOUGHT it woz related....obviously not....



MastahRiz said:


> The lower grade boundaries aren't as low as you may think. It's still very, *very* competitive for foreigners to get into a medical school in Pakistan. It's not just a place where you can show them your foreign passport + currency and wait for them to roll out the red carpet. More and more foreigners are applying every year, and many of them have perfect GPA's and test scores. You'll be very lucky to get accepted with 3.0 average.
> 
> Also, this is a *Life in Pakistan* thread, so questions regarding admissions and chances of admission with different grades all belong in the threads already exist and cover those topics extensively.
> 
> ...


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Read the first post of the thread again to clear up any confusion you may have.

The thread is about *Life in Pakistan*, specifically for foreigners, regarding living conditions, social life, cultural limitations, etc.

Questions about grades and possibilities/chances of admission, test scores, etc, belong in their own threads.

Thanks.


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