# Hakimullah Mehsud's Death



## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

So are you happy or sad that he died? Because I for one am very happy to see him die. Now, if only the army can close in and capitalise we might get rid of ttp.
Your thoughts?


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## Muhammad Tauqeer (Jun 16, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> So are you happy or sad that he died? Because I for one am very happy to see him die. Now, if only the army can close in and capitalise we might get rid of ttp.
> Your thoughts?


This is medical students' forum. Anyway, government was busy in dialogues with ttp. After the death of Hakimullah, journey toward peace has been broken. I think America does not want peace in Pakistan because whenever Pakistan proceeds toward peace, America sends drones....


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

Muhammad Tauqeer said:


> This is medical students' forum. Anyway, government was busy in dialogues with ttp. After the death of Hakimullah, journey toward peace has been broken. I think America does not want peace in Pakistan because whenever Pakistan proceeds toward peace, America sends drones....


Which is why I posted in the lounge section. 
We should not negotiate with terrorists.


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## Umer Yamin (Oct 2, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> Which is why I posted in the lounge section.
> We should not negotiate with terrorists.


What if they aren't really terrorists? What makes you think that they're terrorists?


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

Umer Yamin said:


> What if they aren't really terrorists? What makes you think that they're terrorists?


They partake in terrorist activities and then take responsibility for said activities.


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## Umer Yamin (Oct 2, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> They partake in terrorist activities and then take responsibility for said activities.


And who exactly tells you this?


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## Dark Knight (Sep 16, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> Which is why I posted in the lounge section.
> We should not negotiate with terrorists.


Well i honestly think negotiations is the only way to bring peace. Just think about it, we were at war for more than 10 years with them, and what did we get? During the entire course of war, we just shed the blood of 40,000 Pakistani's. We should face the grim reallity that our army can not wipe out these barbaric people! Its something which even america couldnt achieve. If america can accept defeat, we should as well and give negotiations a chance. Taliban is an ideology, you can not just wipe them out with force. The more we kill them, the more there ideology will spread. We need to put an end to this through talks and understanding.


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## tamoor (Oct 3, 2013)

Well who cares,Just watch the world burn and sink in its own blood.


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

Umer Yamin said:


> And who exactly tells you this?


Well there is a bomb blast one day and the next day someone from on organisation comes and takes responsibility for it. Often these people were under the supervision/control of hakimullah mehsud or it was hakimullah mehsud himself.




Dark Knight said:


> Well i honestly think negotiations is the only way to bring peace. Just think about it, we were at war for more than 10 years with them, and what did we get? During the entire course of war, we just shed the blood of 40,000 Pakistani's. We should face the grim reallity that our army can not wipe out these barbaric people! Its something which even america couldnt achieve. If america can accept defeat, we should as well and give negotiations a chance. Taliban is an ideology, you can not just wipe them out with force. The more we kill them, the more there ideology will spread. We need to put an end to this through talks and understanding.


There was never any war. Just a few operations,which were successful. America lives 3000 miles away from these and these are currently invading our territory.Peace will never work. Most of the 40,000 people were killed by them. America's main objective was getting bin laden and squashing al-qaeda, the latter of which has been achieved to some extent. Their only beef with taliban was that they supported al-qaeda. Its a fallacy that the more taliban you kill, more taliban will spring up in their place. Army is acting is too lazy and disinterested. 



tamoor said:


> Well who cares,Just watch the world burn and sink in its own blood.


 I wanted to be the one to set the world on fire.


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## tamoor (Oct 3, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> Well there is a bomb blast one day and the next day someone from on organisation comes and takes responsibility for it. Often these people were under the supervision/control of hakimullah mehsud or it was hakimullah mehsud himself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Who cares again?Humans killing humans.thats just it.To me these are just the remanants of destruction done by world war and then cold war and tale of revenge and prejudiced quest for power.To me they are all childrens fighting on primitive drives of emotions conceited that they are acting upon noble things like religion,faith,or patriotism.Its all meaningless.So sit back and enjoy the show.
plus it medforum i dont think moderators would approve of this.


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

tamoor said:


> Who cares again?Humans killing humans.thats just it.To me these are just the remanants of destruction done by world war and then cold war and tale of revenge and prejudiced quest for power.To me they are all childrens fighting on primitive drives of emotions conceited that they are acting upon noble things like religion,faith,or patriotism.Its all meaningless.So sit back and enjoy the show.
> plus it medforum i dont think moderators would approve of this.


It's posted in the anything section. Not the pak med school section.
All wars are like that. When they start affecting you, that's when you start analysing them


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## Crypt (Oct 8, 2013)

tamoor said:


> Who cares again?Humans killing humans.thats just it.To me these are just the remanants of destruction done by world war and then cold war and tale of revenge and prejudiced quest for power.To me they are all childrens fighting on primitive drives of emotions conceited that they are acting upon noble things like religion,faith,or patriotism.Its all meaningless.So sit back and enjoy the show.
> plus it medforum i dont think moderators would approve of this.


Its alright in the "lounge" section...

This here forum's moderators are basically the next best thing to getting into a med skul on merit...


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

Crypt said:


> This here forum's moderators are basically the next best thing to getting into a med skul on merit...


wut?


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## Crypt (Oct 8, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> wut?


Metaphor sonnen.


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

Crypt said:


> Metaphor sonnen.


you lost me.


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## Umer Yamin (Oct 2, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> Well there is a bomb blast one day and the next day someone from on organisation comes and takes responsibility for it. Often these people were under the supervision/control of hakimullah mehsud or it was hakimullah mehsud himself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh Hakeem Ullah Mehsood or some guy from the organisation himself calls you and says, hey Sonnen, just wanted to tell you that the recent suicide blast has been carried out by us?


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

Umer Yamin said:


> Oh Hakeem Ullah Mehsood or some guy from the organisation himself calls you and says, hey Sonnen, just wanted to tell you that the recent suicide blast has been carried out by us?


Well, I am not personally acquainted with them, but a bomb blast they own up to it and it shows upon websites,newspapers, tv channels.


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## Umer Yamin (Oct 2, 2013)

It's on websites, news papers or on tv and you believe it, cool story bro


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## Muhammad Tauqeer (Jun 16, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> Which is why I posted in the lounge section.
> We should not negotiate with terrorists.


Why do you not want to negotiate with terrorists for the sake of lives of innocent people?


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

Umer Yamin said:


> It's on websites, news papers or on tv and you believe it, cool story bro


Can criticise newspaper and tv channels for having vested interests. Can't do the same for small time blogs. 



Muhammad Tauqeer said:


> Why do you not want to negotiate with terrorists for the sake of lives of innocent people?


Asking too much. Don't honour their side of treaty. How dare they demand anything in the first place.


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## NarjisShah (Oct 13, 2013)

*how do any of you even know they're worthy of or READY to negotiate?
i mean, they're blowing up people for the heck of it. That says a lot.*


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## Umer Yamin (Oct 2, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> Can criticise newspaper and tv channels for having vested interests. Can't do the same for small time blogs.
> 
> 
> 
> Asking too much. Don't honour their side of treaty. How dare they demand anything in the first place.


Still, don't let the eye fool the mind.

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NarjisShah said:


> *how do any of you even know they're worthy of or READY to negotiate?
> i mean, they're blowing up people for the heck of it. That says a lot.*


It's not like we're sitting here and doing nothing, our army too has been blowing them in several operations since I don't know when.


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## NarjisShah (Oct 13, 2013)

Umer Yamin said:


> It's not like we're sitting here and doing nothing, our army too has been blowing them in several operations since I don't know when.


*yeah but those were a FEW operations carried out because things got wayyy out of hand. Like the Laal Masjid operation. And its not about the media fooling us when it comes to the taliban. People from Hakeemullah Masood's group have identified themselves on national television and owned up to recent bombings. What more proof do we need?

happy that he's dead though.*


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

NarjisShah said:


> *yeah but those were a FEW operations carried out because things got wayyy out of hand. Like the Laal Masjid operation. And its not about the media fooling us when it comes to the taliban. People from Hakeemullah Masood's group have identified themselves on national television and owned up to recent bombings. What more proof do we need?
> 
> happy that he's dead though.*


Preach the truth sister.


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## Umer Yamin (Oct 2, 2013)

NarjisShah said:


> *yeah but those were a FEW operations carried out because things got wayyy out of hand. Like the Laal Masjid operation. And its not about the media fooling us when it comes to the taliban. People from Hakeemullah Masood's group have identified themselves on national television and owned up to recent bombings. What more proof do we need?
> 
> happy that he's dead though.*


No alot of operations have been carried out against them, also do not forget the drones, and I never saw any Taliban leader himself showing up on National Television and claiming the responsibility of a recent bombing attack.
Hakim Ullah died at the wrong time, if you people think that we can out an end to this by war, then you're wrong friends, it will take way too long.


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

Umer Yamin said:


> No alot of operations have been carried out against them, also do not forget the drones, and I never saw any Taliban leader himself showing up on National Television and claiming the responsibility of a recent bombing attack.
> Hakim Ullah died at the wrong time, if you people think that we can out an end to this by war, then you're wrong friends, it will take way too long.


If those areas weren't so impoverished, had they not been neglected by the govt, taliban wud have been having a much harder time recruiting. People there don't trust the govt.
Hakim has owned up to many explosions, but to some local channels and local radio stations.
Army has done from nothing to very little.
War ends when writ of state reigns supreme(no matter how much you may hate the current govt)


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## Umer Yamin (Oct 2, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> If those areas weren't so impoverished, had they not been neglected by the govt, taliban wud have been having a much harder time recruiting. People there don't trust the govt.
> Hakim has owned up to many explosions, but to some local channels and local radio stations.
> Army has done from nothing to very little.
> War ends when writ of state reigns supreme(no matter how much you may hate the current govt)


I think we should wait and watch the show because for now, government has decided to negotiate with them.


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## NarjisShah (Oct 13, 2013)

Umer Yamin said:


> No alot of operations have been carried out against them, also do not forget the drones, and I never saw any Taliban leader himself showing up on National Television and claiming the responsibility of a recent bombing attack.
> Hakim Ullah died at the wrong time, if you people think that we can out an end to this by war, then you're wrong friends, it will take way too long.


*the drones we can not account for since its not OUR government controlling those attacks. Foreign intervention is there in the first place because our government and WE, as a nation are too divided to decide for ourselves what needs to be done. Im not saying that war is the answer, all im saying is that anyone hoping to see rainbows and butterflies after any negotiations is fooling themselves. These are mindless people killing innocent ones in 'the name of Islam'. They believe doing so would somehow get them a higher place in heaven. We need to eradicate illiteracy which is the ultimate cause behind most individuals having such gullible minds which easily surrender to this horse****tt brainwashing..*


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## Umer Yamin (Oct 2, 2013)

NarjisShah said:


> *the drones we can not account for since its not OUR government controlling those attacks. Foreign intervention is there in the first place because our government and WE, as a nation are too divided to decide for ourselves what needs to be done. Im not saying that war is the answer, all im saying is that anyone hoping to see rainbows and butterflies after any negotiations is fooling themselves. These are mindless people killing innocent ones in 'the name of Islam'. They believe doing so would somehow get them a higher place in heaven. We need to eradicate illiteracy which is the ultimate cause behind most individuals having such gullible minds which easily surrender to this horse****tt brainwashing..*


I don't think that our government isn't involved in the drone attacks, according to American officials and the infamous wiki leaks, our government permitted them to use drones, infact in 2008, our army chief urged them to increase the strikes.

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Umer Yamin said:


> I don't think that our government isn't involved in the drone attacks, according to American officials and the infamous wiki leaks, our government permitted them to use drones, infact in 2008, our army chief urged them to increase the strikes.


Still for now, negotiations are the best thing that we could do, if they still don't get it, then war.


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## NarjisShah (Oct 13, 2013)

*i love how we're discussing matters of war and peace like we're all holding detonators to nukes. *:cigar:
*but yes, i hope our government's smart enough to reach a decision if, or rather, when these negotiations fail to make a difference.*


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## Umer Yamin (Oct 2, 2013)

Lol and I never knew that girls too were interested in such natters


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## NarjisShah (Oct 13, 2013)

Umer Yamin said:


> Lol and I never knew that girls too were interested in such natters


*the country's mine just as much as yours, bro. *:smug:


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## Umer Yamin (Oct 2, 2013)

Hahahaha true true


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

Taliban's more like a sophisticated mafia than ideological guerilla warriors.


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## canon47 (Sep 25, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> Asking too much. Don't honour their side of treaty. How dare they demand anything in the first place.


oh boy  this discussion 
because it was their land and their birth place. it was our fault in the first place to violate their privacy, how would so called civilized people all over the world would feel if someone beats their families and break into their houses violating their legal rights. and how dare america to dictate the conditions of our own country in the first place by drone attacks. people are happy as hell thinking that they wont retaliate. i dont care what happens to these militants, they aren't angels right . but what about the people in the terrorism affected areas, this retaliation process? peace talks werent exactly going to work totally but it would have been a good step. at least some improvement. we shouldn't negotiate with terrorists? it only works in movies there is a risk of collateral damage. but wait people here are tribesmen. we can sacrifice them. its totally fine. BUT a german shepherd from canada gets killed in this , oh boy  it would have been war against terror all over again  on behalf of canada of course  because america just loves saving the world.
and sonnen these are not just your views. many pakistanis living abroad said the same thing you said. and to add to that people inside his organization also wanted him dead , as he was making a reasonable move.


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## Umer Yamin (Oct 2, 2013)

canon47 said:


> oh boy  this discussion
> because it was their land and their birth place. it was our fault in the first place to violate their privacy, how would so called civilized people all over the world would feel if someone beats their families and break into their houses violating their legal rights. and how dare america to dictate the conditions of our own country in the first place by drone attacks. people are happy as hell thinking that they wont retaliate. i dont care what happens to these militants, they aren't angels right . but what about the people in the terrorism affected areas, this retaliation process? peace talks werent exactly going to work totally but it would have been a good step. at least some improvement. we shouldn't negotiate with terrorists? it only works in movies there is a risk of collateral damage. but wait people here are tribesmen. we can sacrifice them. its totally fine. BUT a german shepherd from canada gets killed in this , oh boy  it would have been war against terror all over again  on behalf of canada of course  because america just loves saving the world.
> and sonnen these are not just your views. many pakistanis living abroad said the same thing you said. and to add to that people inside his organization also wanted him dead , as he was making a reasonable move.


Well said.


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

canon47 said:


> oh boy  this discussion
> because it was their land and their birth place. it was our fault in the first place to violate their privacy, how would so called civilized people all over the world would feel if someone beats their families and break into their houses violating their legal rights. and how dare america to dictate the conditions of our own country in the first place by drone attacks. people are happy as hell thinking that they wont retaliate. i dont care what happens to these militants, they aren't angels right . but what about the people in the terrorism affected areas, this retaliation process? peace talks werent exactly going to work totally but it would have been a good step. at least some improvement. we shouldn't negotiate with terrorists? it only works in movies there is a risk of collateral damage. but wait people here are tribesmen. we can sacrifice them. its totally fine. BUT a german shepherd from canada gets killed in this , oh boy  it would have been war against terror all over again  on behalf of canada of course  because america just loves saving the world.
> and sonnen these are not just your views. many pakistanis living abroad said the same thing you said. and to add to that people inside his organization also wanted him dead , as he was making a reasonable move.


Well it's still not their land sadly, it's sadly still Pakistan's land and Pakistan is gonna do what Pakistan. 
Ok, what you just said is that these people have a relative die in drones and then they become terrorists? Well then why isn't the other end true as well? That people who die in terrorists attacks lose their minds and then go after the terrorists? Simple, they have things to live for(money) while the terrorists have little or none.Also there is a lot of propaganda there. Someone becoming insane because someone screws with them or their family isn't true because if it were, the people would have been staging a mutiny against the govt right now.
No one cares about dogs, everyone puts them down.
America doesn't step into their homes, just drones them from the sky.
We have already had 3 failed peace treaties with these people. They always break them but before they always extend the area under their control, which is why they are so powerful right now.
Starting from Jinnah, no one really cared about the tribesmen.
Look whatever kills the terrorists is fine by me, if army isn't gonna do anything then it's gotta be the drones, sadly.


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## Crypt (Oct 8, 2013)

Why doesnt the cycle break?

We leave them alone, they leave us alone.
Everybody wins??:/

Dont get y it cant be that way.


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

Crypt said:


> Why doesnt the cycle break?
> 
> We leave them alone, they leave us alone.
> Everybody wins??:/
> ...


Because they are like a mafia, looking to expand their interests. When you leave them alone, they carry on doing what they wanna do. Their ultimate goal is to overthrow the pak govt, pak constitution and establish their type of shariat.


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## Crypt (Oct 8, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> Because they are like a mafia, looking to expand their interests. When you leave them alone, they carry on doing what they wanna do. Their ultimate goal is to overthrow the pak govt, pak constitution and establish their type of shariat.


Right...:|


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## ajlal rehman (Oct 11, 2012)

our policies had made them terrorrists ............simple..............:cool!:


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## canon47 (Sep 25, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> Well it's still not their land sadly, it's sadly still Pakistan's land and Pakistan is gonna do what Pakistan.
> Ok, what you just said is that these people have a relative die in drones and then they become terrorists? Well then why isn't the other end true as well? That people who die in terrorists attacks lose their minds and then go after the terrorists? Simple, they have things to live for(money) while the terrorists have little or none.Also there is a lot of propaganda there. Someone becoming insane because someone screws with them or their family isn't true because if it were, the people would have been staging a mutiny against the govt right now.
> No one cares about dogs, everyone puts them down.
> America doesn't step into their homes, just drones them from the sky.
> ...


see the story is that these ttp guys, they were formed when the real afghan taliban decided to hide in pakistan. our army after a long period, when these taliban were so deep into their society, decided for an operation. and the original locals, which were actually pakistanis couldnt repel the afghans earlier as they were armed. and our army wasnt moving in. but when they did move in. they beat their families and violated their privacy and god knows what else because our army though that they were harbouring the afghans and wanna guess who was pressing our government to that?. so in anger they formed a group called ttp. what i just said before is that when you take someones rights from them. rebellion is bound to happen. why is america taking interest in this. because they dont want to leave afghan and his has become their reason now. so yes the place is ttp's home soil. they never disagreed that they are pakistanis before they were formed. thay still have pakistan in their name. but i would say this over the course of time they have done monsterous things. why i see hakimullah's death as a loss because this is going to make the situation more volatile. loss of lives. the aftermath of this is bad. this is the thing that people dont realize.

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what started as a movement to be left alone in peace. has became something else now. corrupted their purpose. this mafia as you called. yes it is a mafia now. but there were still people with original cause. hakimullah might have made some improvement in the situation. but now that door is closed they are back to killing innocents

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f.y.i. i hate ttp for what they did. but this was no good approach to kill the man opting for negotiations.


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## NarjisShah (Oct 13, 2013)

*Leaving aside the fact that Hakeemullah died at a bad time, i have to disagree at the point where you say they retaliated because their privacy and homes were invaded. Retaliation would have been inevitable, agreed...but why innocent people? What will they get by blowing up public places? Hospitals, mosques, vehicles in markets? I dont see how thats sending a message to America or ANY other foreign power rather. Just a bunch of Pakistanis, blowing up other Pakistanis. *


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

canon47 said:


> see the story is that these ttp guys, they were formed when the real afghan taliban decided to hide in pakistan. our army after a long period, when these taliban were so deep into their society, decided for an operation. and the original locals, which were actually pakistanis couldnt repel the afghans earlier as they were armed. and our army wasnt moving in. but when they did move in. they beat their families and violated their privacy and god knows what else because our army though that they were harbouring the afghans and wanna guess who was pressing our government to that?. so in anger they formed a group called ttp. what i just said before is that when you take someones rights from them. rebellion is bound to happen. why is america taking interest in this. because they dont want to leave afghan and his has become their reason now. so yes the place is ttp's home soil. they never disagreed that they are pakistanis before they were formed. thay still have pakistan in their name. but i would say this over the course of time they have done monsterous things. why i see hakimullah's death as a loss because this is going to make the situation more volatile. loss of lives. the aftermath of this is bad. this is the thing that people dont realize.
> 
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> 
> ...



That was very demagogic and you ignored a lot of other factors involved as well.
America is leaving Afghanistan. America was/is worried about al-qaeda, not taliban.


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## canon47 (Sep 25, 2013)

NarjisShah said:


> *Leaving aside the fact that Hakeemullah died at a bad time, i have to disagree at the point where you say they retaliated because their privacy and homes were invaded. Retaliation would have been inevitable, agreed...but why innocent people? What will they get by blowing up public places? Hospitals, mosques, vehicles in markets? I dont see how thats sending a message to America or ANY other foreign power rather. Just a bunch of Pakistanis, blowing up other Pakistanis. *


they didnt retaliate when their homes privacy was ruined  they jsst didnt tell the army then deliberately wHere the taliban were. they could have told them if they werent beaten down on first approach and yeah the innocent lives part, this is the monstrous behavior they have adopted thats why i hate em. but the retaliation i am talking about is going to be due to the death of hakim ullah. my argument isnt the death of hakim ullah. but about the time. why just now? to sabotage the peace process? and we know that these people are always hungry for blood, just when they were calm enough to talk. america stepped in to mess this situation for us.

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SonnenSays said:


> That was very demagogic and you ignored a lot of other factors involved as well.
> America is leaving Afghanistan. America was/is worried about al-qaeda, not taliban.


 then why not leave it to us to handle, they are domestic no international "mafia" ( the word you said) they should go home this is our problem, let our people handle them either by talks or force thats our choice. not america's


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

canon47 said:


> then why not leave it to us to handle, they are domestic no international "mafia" ( the word you said) they should go home this is our problem, let our people handle them either by talks or force thats our choice. not america's


Because the army isn't doing anything.


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## canon47 (Sep 25, 2013)

so the americans couldnt wipe the street gangs and mafia in their streets, mafia is also there and every country has criminals right? so we should start droning the streets? *NO*! 1st that is not our problem, 2nd its inhumane to risk the lives of innocents. but no in pakistan they can do that right?


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

canon47 said:


> so the americans couldnt wipe the street gangs and mafia in their streets, mafia is also there and every country has criminals right? so we should start droning the streets? *NO*! 1st that is not our problem, 2nd its inhumane to risk the lives of innocents. but no in pakistan they can do that right?


Yes, in pakistan certain people can do whatever they want. People are exploited to a great deal here.
This mafia has aspirations that surpass those of other maifa. Most mafias are happy just earning money. They want money,land, people to live according to how they and want to overthrow the govt. So not a mafia in that. Foreign countries have competent law enforcement agencies. Lol brah, have you looked at our police? You think they can get anything done? The only thing they can do is harass and extort money from law abiding citizens. When they have to face an actual outlaw, they usually wet their pants. I look at our police and I'm usually scared of them. Never have I thought that they actually be able to help anyone with anything.
They were directly or indirectly created by the army but the army doesn't wanna clean up its own mess because they are too lazy and don't wanna do their job. So I cross my fingers and hope the drones will take out someone important. The best thing people there can do is stay away from the terrorists.


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## canon47 (Sep 25, 2013)

see then take them whole out if they can guarantee that no innocent would get hurt in the way  why kill one and let the rest kill our civilians for revenge. and i dont like other countries poking in our country's business. our govt did take a step in my opinion took too long but this might have been something positive, the negotiations . lives could have been saved. lets say if our families were there would you opt for army action at the risk of your family being killed in crossfire? or would you say that please god make these parties come to some terms so we can live in peace? personally i wish they got teleported to a new island so we can bomb them in peace these militants. but that is not the case. and people dont take those civilians into account. an army action and people dying in crossfire. this would create a new group of nut jobs.


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

canon47 said:


> see then take them whole out if they can guarantee that no innocent would get hurt in the way  why kill one and let the rest kill our civilians for revenge. and i dont like other countries poking in our country's business. our govt did take a step in my opinion took too long but this might have been something positive, the negotiations . lives could have been saved. lets say if our families were there would you opt for army action at the risk of your family being killed in crossfire? or would you say that please god make these parties come to some terms so we can live in peace? personally i wish they got teleported to a new island so we can bomb them in peace these militants. but that is not the case. and people dont take those civilians into account. an army action and people dying in crossfire. this would create a new group of nut jobs.


Locals collude with the taliban. Although they might be forced, they are at a fault.


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## canon47 (Sep 25, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> Locals collude with the taliban. Although they might be forced, they are at a fault.


c'mon man seriously? what would you do if a person walks by your home every day threatening you with guns. would you call staying quiet for the sake of their family as harboring? on the other hand some locals do collude with them. the reasons are many, some want shariah  as you described. and some think we let americans drone their areas disregarding the safety of their families. some got families killed by drones.

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see you're not wrong sonnen that these ttp guys need to be finished and they are harbored by some. but most civilians are innocent. is their life any less important?


----------



## Umer Yamin (Oct 2, 2013)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=618904381482003&set=vb.363898649737&type=2&theater
Do watch the video people.

- - - Updated - - -



SonnenSays said:


> Well it's still not their land sadly, it's sadly still Pakistan's land and Pakistan is gonna do what Pakistan.
> Ok, what you just said is that these people have a relative die in drones and then they become terrorists? Well then why isn't the other end true as well? That people who die in terrorists attacks lose their minds and then go after the terrorists? Simple, they have things to live for(money) while the terrorists have little or none.Also there is a lot of propaganda there. Someone becoming insane because someone screws with them or their family isn't true because if it were, the people would have been staging a mutiny against the govt right now.
> No one cares about dogs, everyone puts them down.
> America doesn't step into their homes, just drones them from the sky.
> ...


What about the innocent people being killed by the drones? What makes you think that drones are really effective, like their intelligence is accurate or not?

- - - Updated - - -



Crypt said:


> Why doesnt the cycle break?
> 
> We leave them alone, they leave us alone.
> Everybody wins??:/
> ...


Sadly, the Drone strikes don't stop so they are never left alone.

- - - Updated - - -



NarjisShah said:


> *Leaving aside the fact that Hakeemullah died at a bad time, i have to disagree at the point where you say they retaliated because their privacy and homes were invaded. Retaliation would have been inevitable, agreed...but why innocent people? What will they get by blowing up public places? Hospitals, mosques, vehicles in markets? I dont see how thats sending a message to America or ANY other foreign power rather. Just a bunch of Pakistanis, blowing up other Pakistanis. *


Illiteracy sister illiteracy, they aren't as literate as we are, so they simply just don't get it.

- - - Updated - - -



SonnenSays said:


> That was very demagogic and you ignored a lot of other factors involved as well.
> America is leaving Afghanistan. America was/is worried about al-qaeda, not taliban.


Al Qaeda is finished, they're not at all a threat any more, then why the drone strikes don't stop?


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## NarjisShah (Oct 13, 2013)

Umer Yamin said:


> Illiteracy sister illiteracy, they aren't as literate as we are, so they simply just don't get it.


*illiteracy will be the end of us. Light na aa rahi ho to people start burning down shops and vehicles as some sort of "Ehtijaaj" against the government. When in reality, they're just screwing over some other poor guy's shop/bike/house etc. *


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## Umer Yamin (Oct 2, 2013)

NarjisShah said:


> *illiteracy will be the end of us. Light na aa rahi ho to people start burning down shops and vehicles as some sort of "Ehtijaaj" against the government. When in reality, they're just screwing over some other poor guy's shop/bike/house etc. *


yeah they should go and fire raaakkkaatt laanchers straight in the assemblies.


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

Umer Yamin said:


> yeah they should go and fire raaakkkaatt laanchers straight in the assemblies.



Brother, I know how I can help. Guard outside the assembly has an older sister who has a blind friend. I will kill her because the govt supports drones


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## Umer Yamin (Oct 2, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> Brother, I know how I can help. Guard outside the assembly has an older sister who has a blind friend. I will kill her because the govt supports drones


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

canon47 said:


> c'mon man seriously? what would you do if a person walks by your home every day threatening you with guns. would you call staying quiet for the sake of their family as harboring? on the other hand some locals do collude with them. the reasons are many, some want shariah  as you described. and some think we let americans drone their areas disregarding the safety of their families. some got families killed by drones.
> 
> see you're not wrong sonnen that these ttp guys need to be finished and they are harbored by some. but most civilians are innocent. is their life any less important?


These hypothetical questions are useless. We all have our cross to bear in this life. Some have a harder life, others a much easier one. I cannot possibly imagine what they go through so I won't even try to. But I will speak formy self interest which is that drones should continue unless army wants to do something.



Umer Yamin said:


> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=618904381482003&set=vb.363898649737&type=2&theater
> Do watch the video people.
> 
> What about the innocent people being killed by the drones? What makes you think that drones are really effective, like their intelligence is accurate or not?
> ...


Sorry dude, can't watch Hamid Mir even for a second.
America has a really weird policy. They say that each adult killed by a drone strike automatically becomes an enemy combatant, so you never know how many innocent people actually died.
Al-qaeda hasn't finished . They have mutated and devolved. They have people fighting in Syria and last I heard they were in Yemen. Some sympathisers of theirs are in those areas who can invite them over any time, which is what scares america.


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## tamoor (Oct 3, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> These hypothetical questions are useless. We all have our cross to bear in this life. Some have a harder life, others a much easier one. I cannot possibly imagine what they go through so I won't even try to. But I will speak formy self interest which is that drones should continue unless army wants to do something.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hope you are not talking about the christian cross when you said about the crosses we bare in our lives.And drone is a shame man.Its not ours but america comes and goes out as if it was their territory.If that happened for a moment with any other country in the world their nation would not tolerate it.It is said that they did that once with china,not attack but just as a spy.China forced to land the drone and then made america beg for it.
And army is not holding back it is held back by the government.


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## Umer Yamin (Oct 2, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> These hypothetical questions are useless. We all have our cross to bear in this life. Some have a harder life, others a much easier one. I cannot possibly imagine what they go through so I won't even try to. But I will speak formy self interest which is that drones should continue unless army wants to do something.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Even the American officials do not consider Al Qaeda as a threat anymore.


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

tamoor said:


> I hope you are not talking about the christian cross when you said about the crosses we bare in our lives.And drone is a shame man.Its not ours but america comes and goes out as if it was their territory.If that happened for a moment with any other country in the world their nation would not tolerate it.It is said that they did that once with china,not attack but just as a spy.China forced to land the drone and then made america beg for it.
> And army is not holding back it is held back by the government.


Cross to bare is a part of speech.
America is in China's debt and China doesn't have a terrorism problem. They also have competent law enforcement agencies. 



Umer Yamin said:


> Even the American officials do not consider Al Qaeda as a threat anymore.


Don't know which experts you are talking about, everyone is still cautious about Al-Qaeda. They also have started like this franchise thing so it gets difficult to tell what is al-qaeda and what isn't.


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## tamoor (Oct 3, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> Cross to bare is a part of speech.
> America is in China's debt and China doesn't have a terrorism problem. They also have competent law enforcement agencies.
> 
> 
> Don't know which experts you are talking about, everyone is still cautious about Al-Qaeda. They also have started like this franchise thing so it gets difficult to tell what is al-qaeda and what isn't.


You are not being logical here.this issue was before america came in debt.Also if someone a stranger come and goes into your house and messes your garden or messes up your house.Would you respect him or sue him.


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

tamoor said:


> You are not being logical here.this issue was before america came in debt.Also if someone a stranger come and goes into your house and messes your garden or messes up your house.Would you respect him or sue him.


When did this happen? America has been borrowing from China for a long time.
You are trying to dumb down a more complicated issue. Isn't as simple as that.


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## Umer Yamin (Oct 2, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> Cross to bare is a part of speech.
> America is in China's debt and China doesn't have a terrorism problem. They also have competent law enforcement agencies.
> 
> 
> Don't know which experts you are talking about, everyone is still cautious about Al-Qaeda. They also have started like this franchise thing so it gets difficult to tell what is al-qaeda and what isn't.


The same television that tells you that Ttp has claimed responsibility for blasts told me a couple of days ago that Al Qaeda are not a threat to America anymore.


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

Umer Yamin said:


> The same television that tells you that Ttp has claimed responsibility for blasts told me a couple of days ago that Al Qaeda are not a threat to America anymore.


?


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## NarjisShah (Oct 13, 2013)

*Why dont you all focus that AMAZINGGG brain power into getting into med schools instead? Yes? No? Okay.*


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

NarjisShah said:


> *Why dont you all focus that AMAZINGGG brain power into getting into med schools instead? Yes? No? Okay.*


Hate med skulz. Lurve geopolitics. Actually I just love figuring people out.


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## Umer Yamin (Oct 2, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> ?


It was on tv bro, tv, television, news.

- - - Updated - - -



NarjisShah said:


> *Why dont you all focus that AMAZINGGG brain power into getting into med schools instead? Yes? No? Okay.*


No.


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

Umer Yamin said:


> It was on tv bro, tv, television, news.
> 
> No.


I never said that I got that info off tv.
Who was narjis talking about?


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## NarjisShah (Oct 13, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> Hate med skulz. Lurve geopolitics. Actually I just love figuring people out.


*bro, WHY are you even on a med forum yo?

*


Umer Yamin said:


> No.


*okay *



SonnenSays said:


> Who was narjis talking about?


*lolwut?*


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

NarjisShah said:


> *bro, WHY are you even on a med forum yo?
> *
> *okay *
> 
> *lolwut?*


Trying to get admission in a med skul. 

Who were you telling to stop?


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## NarjisShah (Oct 13, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> Trying to get admission in a med skul.
> 
> Who were you telling to stop?


*you hate it but you wanna get into one?

All of yous.
*


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

NarjisShah said:


> *you hate it but you wanna get into one?
> 
> All of yous.
> *


It's being done against my will and happiness, but that's nothing new.


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## NarjisShah (Oct 13, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> It's being done against my will and happiness, but that's nothing new.


*​Five years is a long time...*


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

NarjisShah said:


> *​Five years is a long time...*


It's been going on for 10 years.


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## Umer Yamin (Oct 2, 2013)

Hey Sonnen, you don't like watching Hamid Mir but what about Imran Khan?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10202402913144181&set=vb.168633756520671&type=2&theater
watch this.


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

Umer Yamin said:


> Hey Sonnen, you don't like watching Hamid Mir but what about Imran Khan?
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10202402913144181&set=vb.168633756520671&type=2&theater
> watch this.


Can't tolerate him either.


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## Crypt (Oct 8, 2013)

I didnt expect this thread to drag into more than a day..

Guess detonation gives everyone's patriotism a kick start..


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## Umer Yamin (Oct 2, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> Can't tolerate him either.


You're sooooo K3wL


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

Umer Yamin said:


> You're sooooo K3wL


Thank you, thank you.


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## tamoor (Oct 3, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> Cross to bare is a part of speech.
> America is in China's debt and China doesn't have a terrorism problem. They also have competent law enforcement agencies.
> 
> 
> Don't know which experts you are talking about, everyone is still cautious about Al-Qaeda. They also have started like this franchise thing so it gets difficult to tell what is al-qaeda and what isn't.


The last part made me chuckle a bit.Wow sonnen.You fear what you dont know that is what you said when you said it is difficult to tell what is al qaeda and what it isnt.So you fear unknown but you call it alqaeda.

- - - Updated - - -



SonnenSays said:


> When did this happen? America has been borrowing from China for a long time.
> You are trying to dumb down a more complicated issue. Isn't as simple as that.


No answer the question first what would you do if a guy comes in your house by force and destroys everything acting like it was his.And yes america is borrowing from china a long time but the issue i heard about happened like in 2006,i dont really know.But i think majority of people in this world will agree that if it was any country beside pakistan even third grade country they would retaliate and mantain an iron hand stating that what happens is their issue and their millitary will handle it.

- - - Updated - - -



SonnenSays said:


> Hate med skulz. Lurve geopolitics. Actually I just love figuring people out.


That happens in psychiatry.Pollitics is actually about hiding and making things complicated that makes the unconcerned citizens like me uncaring, pessimistic and waiting for the fires on earth to light up.


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## Iqra Ahmed (Sep 21, 2013)

then what else do you suggest solution???

- - - Updated - - -

i also think this thing.... its america who claimed them terriosts.... but whats the real prove

- - - Updated - - -

i really appreciate your points.... not every problem has its solution with force.. and we had already applied and what we get in return... only blood in karachi, peshawar a, balochistan and fata.....

- - - Updated - - -

you are part of this world.. and what you call world is our own country


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## AbraDabra (Feb 5, 2012)

Sonnen, arent you a guy? If so, can you really not find it within yourself to speak out and tell your parents that you dont want to do this profession that you seem to not even hold much interest in? I mean, if you were a girl I would understand, sexism plagues the Pakistani society and it is radical when a girl is seen asking for her rights. But as a guy, you surely must have more leverage. I know this is rather off-topic. Was just curious.


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## Iqra Ahmed (Sep 21, 2013)

i think you are on american side.. what i conclude from your words

- - - Updated - - -

you call religion faith and patriotism just an emotion..... quite dis appointed

- - - Updated - - -

i love the reply


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## Crypt (Oct 8, 2013)

AbraDabra said:


> Sonnen, arent you a guy? If so, can you really not find it within yourself to speak out and tell your parents that you dont want to do this profession that you seem to not even hold much interest in? I mean, if you were a girl I would understand, sexism plagues the Pakistani society and it is radical when a girl is seen asking for her rights. But as a guy, you surely must have more leverage. I know this is rather off-topic. Was just curious.


Shudve pm'ed him on that abra..
Though ive tried with that same query..
Tell me if u can squeeze out an answer that makes u stop feeling edgy about him being 'oppressed' by the opinion of his parent.

If he can justify it.
All i got was 'tried everything'


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## NarjisShah (Oct 13, 2013)

Iqra Ahmed said:


> i think you are on american side.. what i conclude from your words
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...


*Sorry but, who are you talking to? *


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## Crypt (Oct 8, 2013)

NarjisShah said:


> *Sorry but, who are you talking to? *


I think sonnen or tamoor.


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## AbraDabra (Feb 5, 2012)

I guess thats one thing Sonnen is good at atleast. Getting under peoples skin


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## NarjisShah (Oct 13, 2013)

AbraDabra said:


> I guess thats one thing Sonnen is good at atleast. Getting under peoples skin


*truly so. *


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## Crypt (Oct 8, 2013)

AbraDabra said:


> I guess thats one thing Sonnen is good at atleast. Getting under peoples skin


Ooo..
Watch it...
'Somebody' is online too...


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## AbraDabra (Feb 5, 2012)

Do explain
preferably in PM


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## Crypt (Oct 8, 2013)

AbraDabra said:


> Do explain
> preferably in PM


Who..me?


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## AbraDabra (Feb 5, 2012)

Yes you -_-


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

tamoor said:


> The last part made me chuckle a bit.Wow sonnen.You fear what you dont know that is what you said when you said it is difficult to tell what is al qaeda and what it isnt.So you fear unknown but you call it alqaeda.
> 
> No answer the question first what would you do if a guy comes in your house by force and destroys everything acting like it was his.And yes america is borrowing from china a long time but the issue i heard about happened like in 2006,i dont really know.But i think majority of people in this world will agree that if it was any country beside pakistan even third grade country they would retaliate and mantain an iron hand stating that what happens is their issue and their millitary will handle it.
> That happens in psychiatry.Pollitics is actually about hiding and making things complicated that makes the unconcerned citizens like me uncaring, pessimistic and waiting for the fires on earth to light up.


Extremists are the same. America just hates al-qaeda the most. 
Your question is trying to encapsulate a very complex question.Also provide a source for that chinese bombing.
Don't need to study psychology to try to figure people out.



Iqra Ahmed said:


> then what else do you suggest solution???
> i also think this thing.... its america who claimed them terriosts.... but whats the real prove
> i really appreciate your points.... not every problem has its solution with force.. and we had already applied and what we get in return... only blood in karachi, peshawar a, balochistan and fata.....
> you are part of this world.. and what you call world is our own country


Got none of this. Some translate this and explain it to me.



AbraDabra said:


> Sonnen, arent you a guy? If so, can you really not find it within yourself to speak out and tell your parents that you dont want to do this profession that you seem to not even hold much interest in? I mean, if you were a girl I would understand, sexism plagues the Pakistani society and it is radical when a girl is seen asking for her rights. But as a guy, you surely must have more leverage. I know this is rather off-topic. Was just curious.


LOL brah, you don't think I have spoken to my mother thousands of times?



Iqra Ahmed said:


> i think you are on american side.. what i conclude from your words
> - you call religion faith and patriotism just an emotion..... quite dis appointed
> i love the reply


Bauss, Yai am joo aijunt. I werk for CIA,MOSSAD,RAW. M resieve monis from dem. M dere poopat.



Crypt said:


> Shudve pm'ed him on that abra..
> Though ive tried with that same query..
> Tell me if u can squeeze out an answer that makes u stop feeling edgy about him being 'oppressed' by the opinion of his parent.
> 
> ...


You told people our pm convo? I am disappoint.



AbraDabra said:


> I guess thats one thing Sonnen is good at atleast. Getting under peoples skin


Hahah. I got under your skin for sure. Butthurt. Gotten to. Lelz.



Crypt said:


> Ooo..
> Watch it...
> 'Somebody' is online too...


Cue bollywood villain music.



AbraDabra said:


> Do explain
> preferably in PM


Pls tell aberdubra my dirtiest secrets.


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## AbraDabra (Feb 5, 2012)

Sigh. Talking to them and demanding your freedom of choice is a different thing, I think. Ofcourse, though, its your own decision in the end, I was just curious.


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## NarjisShah (Oct 13, 2013)

*Getting back to the topic of this thread, new commander of ttp Mullah Fazlullah's complete wiped the peace talks option off the table. Claims Pakistani government is 'slave' to the US and the death of Hakeemullah shall be avenged. How lovely.*


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## Crypt (Oct 8, 2013)

NarjisShah said:


> *Getting back to the topic of this thread, new commander of ttp Mullah Fazlullah's complete wiped the peace talks option off the table. Claims Pakistani government is 'slave' to the US and the death of Hakeemullah shall be avenged. How lovely.*


It took FOREVER to come off it..
The beloved topic...

Its never-ending. ( echo.. )


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## NarjisShah (Oct 13, 2013)

Crypt said:


> It took FOREVER to come off it..
> The beloved topic...
> 
> Its never-ending. ( echo.. )


*i want icecream. Or chocolate. Or both.*


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## Crypt (Oct 8, 2013)

NarjisShah said:


> *i want icecream. Or chocolate. Or both.*


Go get em tiger..


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## AbraDabra (Feb 5, 2012)

Personally, as far as the topic is concerned, I honestly dont think our government would ever have the funding, the support and the balls to go after TTP and other terrorist groups full-heartedly. Corruption comes to mind, and our country has alot bigger problems at hand at the moment I'd say.

P.S: Im glad he's dead. Using a religion for ones own purposes is sickening [read: The crusades]


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

AbraDabra said:


> Sigh. Talking to them and demanding your freedom of choice is a different thing, I think. Ofcourse, though, its your own decision in the end, I was just curious.


LOL brah, I have in such clear words. My mother is very stern.



NarjisShah said:


> *Getting back to the topic of this thread, new commander of ttp Mullah Fazlullah's complete wiped the peace talks option off the table. Claims Pakistani government is 'slave' to the US and the death of Hakeemullah shall be avenged. How lovely.*


Sounds like a charming fellow. Mullah Fazlullah(may drone be upon him).



Crypt said:


> It took FOREVER to come off it..
> The beloved topic...
> Its never-ending. ( echo.. )


How dare you? I will keep besmirching the name of hakimullah mehsud for all of eternity.

- - - Updated - - -



AbraDabra said:


> Personally, as far as the topic is concerned, I honestly dont think our government would ever have the funding, the support and the balls to go after TTP and other terrorist groups full-heartedly. Corruption comes to mind, and our country has alot bigger problems at hand at the moment I'd say.
> 
> P.S: Im glad he's dead. Using a religion for ones own purposes is sickening [read: The crusades]


Agree with you there.
It shouldn't matter if someone uses religion to defend themselves after having committed a crime but sadly it being Pakistan, automatically gets them protection.


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## NarjisShah (Oct 13, 2013)

SonnenSays said:


> Sounds like a charming fellow. Mullah Fazlullah(may drone be upon him).


*ahahahah lol. 'Drone be upon him' Classic !*


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## Umer Yamin (Oct 2, 2013)

NarjisShah said:


> *Getting back to the topic of this thread, new commander of ttp Mullah Fazlullah's complete wiped the peace talks option off the table. Claims Pakistani government is 'slave' to the US and the death of Hakeemullah shall be avenged. How lovely.*


Then you said Hakim Ullah Mehsud's death is a good news, atleast he was ready to talk about peace with the government, but this new guy?


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

Umer Yamin said:


> Then you said Hakim Ullah Mehsud's death is a good news, atleast he was ready to talk about peace with the government, but this new guy?


Wanna see every terrorist in the country dead, unless they give up and go somewhere else.


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## NarjisShah (Oct 13, 2013)

Umer Yamin said:


> Then you said Hakim Ullah Mehsud's death is a good news, atleast he was ready to talk about peace with the government, but this new guy?


*dont you get it? They're ALL alike. You think they loved Hakeemullah enough to avenge his death but not follow up on his word for 'negotiations' ? Come on man. *


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

NarjisShah said:


> *dont you get it? They're ALL alike. You think they loved Hakeemullah enough to avenge his death but not follow up on his word for 'negotiations' ? Come on man. *


Well they aren't all alike. Some wanna kill shias, some ahmadis, some wahabis, some sunnis. The best ones are the ones who don't discriminate and just mindlessly keep blowing stuff up.


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## tamoor (Oct 3, 2013)

Umer Yamin said:


> Then you said Hakim Ullah Mehsud's death is a good news, atleast he was ready to talk about peace with the government, but this new guy?


Exactly, thats a beautifully accurate but common way of looking at it.But i dont care weather the new one wants to negotiate or not.I sometimes even think that taliban have no central government.But whatsoever i dont think that his death at such an important time was a coincedence.Why wasnt it done before?

- - - Updated - - -



SonnenSays said:


> Well they aren't all alike. Some wanna kill shias, some ahmadis, some wahabis, some sunnis. The best ones are the ones who don't discriminate and just mindlessly keep blowing stuff up.


yes that is so

- - - Updated - - -



SonnenSays said:


> Wanna see every terrorist in the country dead, unless they give up and go somewhere else.


Depends on who you call terorists.America used to call these exact people freedom fighter in cold war era.


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## SonnenSays (Oct 27, 2013)

tamoor said:


> Depends on who you call terorists.America used to call these exact people freedom fighter in cold war era.


I call these people terrorists.


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## Umer Yamin (Oct 2, 2013)

NarjisShah said:


> *dont you get it? They're ALL alike. You think they loved Hakeemullah enough to avenge his death but not follow up on his word for 'negotiations' ? Come on man. *


He was ready for negotiations Narjis, but some people under his command didn't want it but he had the power to make them negotiate, but now he's gone.


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## studiesguy (Nov 6, 2012)

Umer Yamin said:


> And who exactly tells you this?


 watch their videos in which they r slaughtering pak army personals


----------

