# Ziauddin Batch Of 2019 Anyone?



## salma (Oct 16, 2014)

.


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## Dark Knight (Sep 16, 2013)

ME


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## salma (Oct 16, 2014)

How is it?


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## Dark Knight (Sep 16, 2013)

Well ZU is the best private in Karachi after AKU. Some people whom i talked to even told me it should be my top priority after AKU. Yes people told me to prefer ZU over Dow. The thing is that ZU has a very high teaching standard and its follows roughly the same teaching standard like AKU. Ziauddin has a modular based system, implements PBL and has a very innovative curriculum. ZU also has 5 teaching sites, 3 hospitals and 2 clinic so contrary to popular opinion its clinical side is also good. ZU has an excellent student environment, top facilities and good teaching so it should be in the top 3 of your priority list.


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## futuredoctor (Aug 26, 2014)

Hi, I would like to disagree with the claim made by Dark Night about choosing ZU over Dow. Compared to a lot of the government medical colleges in Pakistan, number one being Dow/Dow international, ZU's standards are a lot lower. It may be more high tech and it may have more hospitals, but the teaching standards cannot compare to AKU or DMC which are the oldest and most successful medical institutes in Karachi. Also, DMC, AKU, Shifa, and KE are a few Pakistani universities that are popular internationally. If you are interested in leaving Pakistan after graduating, I would suggest that you choose either Dow or AKU; it would certainly increase your chances of getting a residency in the States, or a house job anywhere outside of Pakistan for that matter.


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## futuredoctor (Aug 26, 2014)

However, comparatively, DMC and AKU are a lot harder to get into than ZU.


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## salma (Oct 16, 2014)

Does it offer any scholarships after the first year?


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## futuredoctor (Aug 26, 2014)

Salma, which university are you talking about?


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## salma (Oct 16, 2014)

ziauddin


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## futuredoctor (Aug 26, 2014)

I am not sure about ZU, but I know that DIMC does not.


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## blamonster (Oct 11, 2014)

Dark Knight said:


> Well ZU is the best private in Karachi after AKU. Some people whom i talked to even told me it should be my top priority after AKU. Yes people told me to prefer ZU over Dow. The thing is that ZU has a very high teaching standard and its follows roughly the same teaching standard like AKU. Ziauddin has a modular based system, implements PBL and has a very innovative curriculum. ZU also has 5 teaching sites, 3 hospitals and 2 clinic so contrary to popular opinion its clinical side is also good. ZU has an excellent student environment, top facilities and good teaching so it should be in the top 3 of your priority list.


Whoever feeds you this stuff is wrong.


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## Dark Knight (Sep 16, 2013)

Ahh Yes that same old debate. Let me first correct you. Please DMC and DIMC might be part of the same university but their standards are worlds apart, not offending anyone. I had been offered admission for Dec 2014 session in July by my dads friend who told me that i would just have to pay 21 k dollars a year. DIMC has loads of people who get in through contacts.

On the other hand, Yes DMC is very good, but over the last several years its standard is going down. Our current provincial government is to blame for this. You can ask any student from DMC and they will agree with what im about to say. DMC doesn't have to a good studying atmosphere. The teachers arent that good and they are even absent quite alot. There is no implementation of attendance policy and students don't come to classes. But Dow does have a better clinical side as its teaching hospital is Civil Hospital and students get loads of exposure. 

Now coming to your part about reputation and going abroad for residency. Dow has a old reputation and that is because DMC was one of only 2 medical colleges in Karachi for about 30 years after which AKU opened. Dow has graduated countless number of batches and Yes all the current top doctors in Pakistan and abroad are of mostly Dow and AKU because their were no other med schools in Karachi. Private colleges opened up after 1995 thus they havent graduated as many batches and thus the current generation of top doctors arent from them. After 10 years or more you will see very successful doctors in Pakistan and abroad coming from Baqai, Ziauddin, etc. Reputation doesnt matter, its the quality of education and most importantly the hardwork of the student that matters. Even when it comes to going abroad, people who work really hard to secure a residency abroad are the ones that do so. Reputation doesn't help much. AKU has the most number of students going abroad and that due to its top quality of education and again due to hard working students. In Dow they dont prepare you for USMLE but its purely the hardwork of the students that get them the US residency. Dow has alot of bright and very hardworking students. If you come and see the curriculum they follow at ZU you will see that being similar to AKU. And please do look it up online and just dont believe what you read on this forum. Alot of people from ZU get residencies in the US. A ZU student has also gotten into Cleveland Clinic and this is somewhere only AKU people get in. Bottom line is if you work hard enough you can do better than those people at AKU!

- - - Updated - - -

Just to back up my claims.
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/childrens-hospital/medical-professionals/pediatric-residency/residents


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## futuredoctor (Aug 26, 2014)

I agree with you that it's hard work that makes you successful. But along with hard work, the reputation of the school is taken into account because it reflects the quality of education offered at the university. Universities are ranked according to the quality of education they offer their students and their teaching standards. So for you to say that the 'reputation' of the school does not matter is wrong because if that were the case, people wouldn't be working so hard to get into the universities which are ranked high and have good REPUTATIONS. 
If two students scored the same on the USMLE but one of them graduated from AKU/Dow and the other from ZU, I can guarantee you 100% that hospitals in America would choose the AKU/Dow graduate rather than the ZU graduate solely because of the reputation of the two schools.

And let me correct your 'correction'. You claim that the standard of DMC and DIMC is worlds apart? Then why don't you try explaining how. Incase you didn't know, DIMC and DMC staff meet every single week and decide which lecture is to be held when. So the lectures being held at DMC, are also being held at DIMC at the exact same time. And in the end doesn't it all come down to the quality of education? And as for getting in through contacts, I know numerous people who have gotten into AKU through contacts too - it doesn't make AKU's standard go down. Getting in through contacts is common all around Pakistan and I'm sure that it happens at ZU. Therefore, that point, in relation to standards, is invalid. 
I agree that it is 1000x easier to get into DIMC than DMC because DMC gets a lot more applications per year since people all over Pakistan compete to get into DMC. However, since DIMC is an international school only for foreign Pakistanis, the number of applications are very low compared to DMC. Likewise, the students at DMC are probably more intelligent and hard working and probably score higher than those at DIMC because they have been chosen out of a larger pool of applications whereas at DIMC, almost everyone who applies and is eligible for admission gets in. That doesn't bring down the standard of the school nor does it effect the quality of education being offered. 
And I don't know where you heard that the standard of Dow is 'going down' because I have never heard anything like that. Up to this day, the reputation of AKU and Dow, both locally and internationally, is excellent. FMG's from Dow and AKU are highly preferred by hospitals all over the US. 

Oh and one more thing, DIMC's curriculum is based on the USMLE and students are told to take step 1 in their third year so I don't understand why you're saying that 'dow doesn't prepare you for USMLE.' I would really appreciate it if you got your facts straight before putting forward arguments. 

And just for your information, I am not basing my argument off of these forums because unlike you, I have actually done my research and have a lot of information in regards to this subject.

And as for your Cleveland Clinic claim, I know numerous people who have graduated from Dow and then did their residencies at a lot of different popular and well-ruptated hospitals in America; John Hopkins being one of the most common. So for you to say that ONE ZU graduate happened to get a residency at a good hospital really does prove what I've been trying to argue.


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## blamonster (Oct 11, 2014)

The thing is, you fell for the trap and paid ZU out of fear. Now your mind is trying to justify your decision. I find it appalling how much you're praising ZU, even recommending it over DOW, Get something straight, ZU doesn't come anywhere close to DOW, A university that takes students based on one thing: Ability to pay, is a pretty **** university if you ask me.


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## futuredoctor (Aug 26, 2014)

I completely agree with blamonster. From what I've heard, ZU is in one of the posh areas of Karachi and takes in anyone who can pay the fees. Doesn't really sound like a school that you can compare to Dow lol.


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## blamonster (Oct 11, 2014)

ZU's strategy is this. Take the test before DOW, and start to call in students BEFORE the DOW test. Everyone who is scared and gets anxious pays up, ultimately backing themselves into the corner since they paid 8lakhs, So they start to needlessly justify what they did as the right thing. darkknights first post is like a copy-pasted statement from ziauddins prospectus.


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## futuredoctor (Aug 26, 2014)

You can't believe everything the university advertises and ignore all of the other facts.


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## Dark Knight (Sep 16, 2013)

Okay lets get it straight. Starting from the last point raised about copying this exactly from the prospectus. Its ironic that someone who is not even part of this institution, nor is planning on becoming, is lecturing me upon getting my facts right. You are the ones which need to get your facts right. I didnt copy paste this from the prospectus. University websites, even those of low tier colleges, write such stuff. I wrote this down after going through our study guide of the 1st semester and asking my seniors who are actually studying in ZU. The curriculum at ZU is very rigorous and this is something which sadly you people need to accept. Oh and i was never the one to say ZU is the best. My entire point is revolving around the fact that reputation isnt a criteria to judge a college, be it ZU, Baqai, whatever. And claiming DMC to be the best just because of its reputation, you people need to seriously look beyond your narrow minded approach of thinking. And about your point about the fee collected by ZU, sorry to burst your bubble, its completely refundable if you get into any govt college on merit. Even if you want to to leave for any private the tuition fee is still completely refundable. Also please be mature people and put up logical arguments rather than just saying ZU takes everyone who can pay. Please grow up.

Now futuredoctor, you stated you have done your research. Well i hate to tell you but you're not the only one. you will agree with me that different program directors have different weightages for reputation of school. Most PDs i agree with you consider it and as you stated only when its a tie between applicants. BUT you also have read this the not all programs take IMGs. i read about what PDs of programs that take IMGS had to say about this and you know what, they literally dont give a crap. AKU degree only has value because AKU graduates are at top positions in IMG friendly programs thus only AKU degree from Pakistan would count. The others, the PDs dont know about your colleges nor do they know much about the current standard of education. So Dow degree wont be much benefit. I said much because i agree that you might have some advantage in some programs, but most programs just dont care. Please read what PDs on IMG friendly programs have to say along with people who actually get into those programs. Oh the dynamics now have completely changed. USMLE has changed its pattern recently, and after a probe by the senate of US, and passing of new laws, the Steps have become difficult, and the quality of education in US med schools has increased substantially. Along with this US med school numbers have incresed thus now the competition for residency is though in top programs and the minimum marks required for top programs have increased. Thus nowadays, not many students get into top programs, just of AKU because of its quality. DMC as i said has students that work incredibly hard but the college itself doesnt provide any preparation. Thus not many students from DMC have matched into top programs is the past few years. i would love if you could provide me with a link to back your tough claims. That girl from ZU got in just last year or something. Its getting tough these days to get into such programs. 

I am also aware that DIMC has a curriculum based on USMLE prep and the thing i said earlier was with respect to DMC. And the standard of DMC isnt the same now. Its is going down, but that doesnt mean its sucks. Its still a very good institute but the study environment is horrible. Teachers dont come, students dont come, whats the point of going to college. And this is exactly what happens. I have talked to seniors who say they stay at home and study instead of going to school. What the point of reputation if you dont get a quality studying environment. I would prefer quality over reputation ANYDAY!


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## blamonster (Oct 11, 2014)

I come from one of the most reputed Alevel institutes in the city, and NONE of my friends are going to ZU while praising it. I hate to tell you man, but ZU DOES take anyone who can pay. They literally have no standard or criteria for admission. I got accepted into ZU, but couldn't be harassed into paying up. ZU or any other private university will never refund the tuiton fee, which in the case of ZU is a little above 2 lakhs. 

Don't talk about growing up, or trying to present arguments, if you get heated by what someone says on the internet. Your snark comments are not welcome here, as far as the standard of ZU goes, i think you've shown quite a bit of that, Prospective ZU student.

It is understandable that you get so defensive, you were conned into giving 8 lakhs ( 2.5 of which is non-refundable ) of your money before the government institutes released their merit lists ( something which is illegal ), so you need to find a way to justify that blunder, but don't go on to tell me, who is well connected with the alumni and student networks, that ZU holds a candlelight to DOW or AKU.

ZU does not tell you what marks you got in your entrance exam, or make it public, Heck, ZU does not even display whether you PASS or FAIL, they can literally reject or accept any student and you can't even lift a finger.


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## futuredoctor (Aug 26, 2014)

Lol whether you read it from the brochure, the website, or your first semester prospectus, it's all bull****. ZU is trying to advertise all of these things that aren't really true. If they were true, a lot more people would have known about ZU. I hadn't even heard about ZU until I started looking up medical colleges in Karachi - really says a lot. 

You were never the one to say that ZU was the best? Let me quote a phrase that you had used in your previous post: "Well ZU is the best private in Karachi after AKU." LOL, what a joke. And I never said that reputation is the ONLY thing to look at when choosing a college, but it does certainly play a huge role. If reputation really didn't matter, why would people work so hard to get into the top colleges. Why would people work so hard to get into AKU? And let me remind you: A university doesn't gain a good reputation because of how old it is or how fancy it is or how much it costs; a university gains a reputation because of the quality of education that it offers. Therefore, the reason behind the excellent reputation of AKU and Dow is because of the quality of education. Likewise, ZU doesn't really have that good of a reputation and isn't as well-known perhaps because of the poor quality of education. I can walk up to random med students in Karachi and ask them what university they would prefer, and I can guarantee you that 90% would choose AKU as their first preference and Dow as their second. Why? Because they are the most well-reputated medical universities in Karachi. And don't try challenging this claim because everyone, including you, know that that is the truth. A friend of mine got into ZU without taking the entrance exam because she couldn't make it there on time - what do you have to say about that?

And by saying that we have a 'narrow minded approach to thinking', you're accusing almost 90% of the students who apply to college. When looking for colleges to apply for, an individual should definitely look at the reputation of a school because it tells you a lot about the education offered at the school. Like I said, you don't just get a reputation. 
LOL, fees is refundable? Are you kidding me right now? You REALLY need to do your research, hun. 
And these are perfectly logical arguments because they are true - ZU takes anyone who can pay them. They don't care about anything else, trust me. And I suggest that if the fees really is refundable, take it back and apply someplace else. 

LOL, PDs don't give a crap? Really? You have no idea what you're talking about. I live in America, I have talked to SO many different hospitals about this very issue. And you're right in saying that a lot of hospitals do not want IMGS, but a lot of the top hospitals in America are taking IMGS with good USMLE scores and guess what? THEY LOOK AT WHICH UNIVERSITY YOU'VE GRADUATED FROM! And what are the three most popular and well-known Pakistani universities here? AKU, KE, and DOW. They don't even know what ZU is here. It isn't even fun arguing with you because you literally have no idea what you're talking about. What you're saying is that only AKU graduates can score a good residency in America and that's utter bull****. Most of the Pakistani doctors that I know here have graduated from either AKU or Dow (from Karachi). So for you to say that they don't 'give a crap' is absurd. 99% of the students at DIMC come back to America to do their residency and guess what? almost all of them get a residency here. You're saying all of this crap about PDs in America when in reality, you know nothing about it. I live here, both my parents are doctors here, and most of our family friends are doctors. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about and the arguments that I'm putting forward aren't based on some 'senior's' opinion. They are based on things that experienced doctors in America have said. I don't have to READ what PDs say. You can't believe everything on the internet. 
And I agree that it is a lot harder to get a residency in America, but that's not even what we're talking about right now. I'm not comparing dow to the universities in America; I'm talking about the chances of getting a residency in America after graduating from Dow in comparison to other universities in Pakistan. And comparatively, grdautes from AKU and Dow tend to do better on USMLE and because of the reputation of the schools, those students have greater chances of getting residencies. The reputation of the school really does come into play here because the hospitals know about these universities (AKU and DOW) and they know that students from these universities are able to compete in the medical field with American graduates. As for ZU, they don't know much about the quality of education there and that's why the would much rather prefer dow graduates over ZU graduates. So many medical graduates from around the world come to America to practice medicine, it isn't just Pakistani students. So the hospitals have to very selective when choosing eligible candidates; they can't just take anyone from some random university who no one really knows about. Maybe ZU does claim that its standard of education matches up with that of AKU's, but it hasn't been proven yet so you can't go about comparing it to Karachi's oldest and very successful university (dow). 
And I honestly don't understand how you can say that dow doesn't prepare you at all. If that really were the case, then there wouldn't be so many successful doctors in america who have graduated from Dow. You can't become a doctor by self studying - if that were the case, you'd be able to do an MBBS degree online. Your claims make no sense. 
And as backing up is concerned, there are so many successful DMC graduates who are doing residency in America at this very moment that not every case is written down in a magazine or article. Maybe for ZU it's a rare incident and thats why they actually wrote an article about a girl getting into a good hospital in America. As for Dow, something like that is very common; they're not going to go around writing about ever graduate who scores a good residency in America. 

If the standard of Dow really is going down, why don't you provide some proof to back up your claim? If the standard really was going down, it'd be in the newspapers everywhere since it is one of the oldest medical institutes in the city. You can't really base your claim off of some opinion from a senior who goes there. I can sit here and say 'oh well, I know so many seniors who say that the studying environment there is amazing' but I could be making that up. 

I have so many friends at DIMC who absolutely love it there and say that the facilities are like what we would find back at home (America) and the teachers are really good at what they do. It's all a matter of opinion. You can't sit behind your computer screen and make claims about the standard of a university and whether or not the teachers are good if you haven't personally been there yourself. 

And back to the whole quality vs. reputation debate, a university gains its reputation because of the quality of education it offers. And if we look at it at that way, Dow has a great quality of education because it has such a great reputation and likewise, ZU has a poor quality of education because it doesn't have a reputation at all. I would choose reputation + quality over a university who cares about nothing but money ANYDAY.


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## salma (Oct 16, 2014)

blamonster said:


> The thing is, you fell for the trap and paid ZU out of fear. Now your mind is trying to justify your decision. I find it appalling how much you're praising ZU, even recommending it over DOW, Get something straight, ZU doesn't come anywhere close to DOW, A university that takes students based on one thing: Ability to pay, is a pretty **** university if you ask me.


Lead by example please. Someone who is at the 440th number in the merit list of Bahria should not talk about Ziauddin taking everyone who can pay. I can assure you that EVERYONE going to Ziauddin has a better aggregate than you, myself included.


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## blamonster (Oct 11, 2014)

salma said:


> Lead by example please. Someone who is at the 440th number in the merit list of Bahria should not talk about Ziauddin taking everyone who can pay. I can assure you that EVERYONE going to Ziauddin has a better aggregate than you, myself included.


Umm, I have already got admission in ZU, but didn't pay it. I can't really convince you on it, but ZU does take everyone who pays, in my college, it was an open fact.

Out of the top 10 in the ZU list, I have 1 friend who has C's in the Alevels, and 1 friend who has straight A*'s.

I really can't argue with someone who is comparing the aggregate of one university with the aggregate of another, that is just plain stupid.

Also, No, not everyone who got accepted into ZU has a better aggregate than me, like i said, i am well connected with the school networks, I personally know 10 students who did horrible in the bahria test and who are going to ZU. I was also one of the earliest to get called, so my aggregate over there was probably higher than the rest of the 300 students.

I can't convince you about ZU's admission policies, despite them being open and not that hard to see. If you're convinced that it has a robust admission system, good for you, you probably think the aptitude test was very well done as well. It does take anyone who is willing to pay, you can convince yourself otherwise, but that is the truth.

It is actually quite hilarious to see you defend ZU this badly.


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## salma (Oct 16, 2014)

blamonster said:


> I really can't argue with someone who is comparing the aggregate of one university with the aggregate of another, that is just plain stupid.


I'm comparing your aggregate in BAHRIA to mine- and a LOT of others that I too personally know, a little common sense involved.

- - - Updated - - -

And the fact that you use the word "convince" so much really speaks volumes itself.


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## blamonster (Oct 11, 2014)

salma said:


> I'm comparing your aggregate in BAHRIA to mine- and a LOT of others that I too personally know, a little common sense involved.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> And the fact that you use the word "convince" so much really speaks volumes itself.


You're still comparing the results of 2 universities, you're assuming that since you did better than me in bahria, you did better than me in ZU. I know of people who have not even made it to the bahria merit list and who are going to ZU.

I can give countless examples why your analogy is wrong, but it doesn't matter.

Sigh, I can't have this discussion, at the end of the day, if you're happy and "convinced" about ZU, that is good for you. 

A little heads up though, people usually inquire about universities before they get admission in them, not after they have already paid the admission fees. It automatically puts you in defense mode, and open to clear bias.


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## salma (Oct 16, 2014)

blamonster said:


> You're still comparing the results of 2 universities, you're assuming that since you did better than me in bahria, you did better than me in ZU. I know of people who have not even made it to the bahria merit list and who are going to ZU.
> 
> I can give countless examples why your analogy is wrong, but it doesn't matter.
> 
> Sigh, I can't have this discussion, at the end of the day, if you're happy and "convinced" about ZU, that is good for you. A little heads up though, people usually inquire about universities before they get admission in them, not after they have already paid the admission fees there, it leaves you open to clear bias.


Dude, you can't judge the whole herd by a few sheep!

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And for the record, I already knew what was required and important about Ziauddin. The only reason I posted this thread was to get a more diverse opinion on the university. That is what Blogs are for, in case you didn't already know.


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## futuredoctor (Aug 26, 2014)

Hi Salma, 

I think it's wrong of you to compare the aggregate of one university to the aggregate of another. Just because you did better than blamonster in Bahria, doesn't mean you're bound to do better than him/her on the ZU test. 
Also apart from that, it doesn't really matter how smart or how dumb blamonster is; the fact is that ZU does take in anyone who can pay the fees. Trust me, my friend got in without taking the test. Ive heard of so many people who keep ZU as their last resort - if they don't get in, they go to ZU because they know that they will get in FOR SURE. 

Anyways, coming back to your initial concern: since you did start this thread to inquire about ZU, I would recommend that you try looking at your other options. If I were you, I would personally target AKU and Dow and then if you don't get in there, go for ZU. If you're already paying so much and spending so much time on the degree, might as well go to a reputable university that guarantees that you will get a good quality of education. Dow and AKU are old universities and there are so many successful students who have graduated from those universities working all around the world. As for ZU, it's still relatively new and I haven't heard many good things about it so far. I don't mean to offend you or anyone else for that matter, but I really think you should keep your options open. Of course in the end, it's your decision


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## DR.CURIOUS (Sep 8, 2014)

blamonster said:


> Umm, I have already got admission in ZU, but didn't pay it. I can't really convince you on it, but ZU does take everyone who pays, in my college, it was an open fact.
> 
> Out of the top 10 in the ZU list, I have 1 friend who has C's in the Alevels, and 1 friend who has straight A*'s.
> 
> ...


exactly aggregate in bahria can't really b compared with zu bahria's test is way tougher!


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## blamonster (Oct 11, 2014)

salma said:


> Dude, you can't judge the whole herd by a few sheep!
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> And for the record, I already knew what was required and important about Ziauddin. The only reason I posted this thread was to get a more diverse opinion on the university. That is what Blogs are for, in case you didn't already know.


So ziauddin's classes are starting soon, before dow admissions are done. Which means that according to the fee rules, which state that only 50% of the tuition fee will be returned if admission is withdrawn a week after classes have commenced. Which means if the student decides to take admission in DOW or SMC, he will lose out on 5.5 lakhs, effectively only getting back 3 lakhs at most. 

Yeah, Ziauddin definitely is not about the money! I would love to see you justify this


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## annaa (Oct 17, 2014)

To be very honest, I have to agree with Blamonster and futuredoctor. Sure you're studying there so obviously you're bound to have some respect but seriously Ziauddin is NOWHERE near as good as DOW or even JSMU and KMDC. People have been studying their asses off for a reason for these govt. uni tests. They're affordable, well-established, have a strong curriculum, WELL-KNOWN and other than having thousands and thousands of people applying, these 3 are extremely well-known unlike Ziauddin.
As known by almost EVERYBODY. Every single person gets a call from Ziauddin. Even if I did, and I refused because of my chances in these ^ Alhamdullilah!
My advice would be if any one of you get in these. GO FOR IT! Believe me. Even you've paid the fees. In the long run you'd be saving plus you'd be in one of the most prestigious Medical Uni's here. And if you're going for further studies here or especially outside you're a shoo-in with these govt. uni's. If you don't believe me try asking anyone from out of Pak about Ziauddin or even out of Karachi, I'm pretty sure you'd the same response. Don't get trapped into some commercials. Anyways hope you guys know what you're doing. :thumbsup:


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