# Should UHS Limit Female MBBS Admissions?



## Zaini33 (Jun 4, 2012)

Asalamu alikum!
I don't know if this is a rumor or authentic news (so you guys gonna confirm it for yourself) that next year onward (2013-2014) batch, the seats in public sector medical colleges would be divided in equal ratio for boys and girls i.e 50% seats of the seats for boys would be reserved! 

This I think they are doing because of the reason that no lady-doctors agree on working in rural areas and many of the girls who get admission in medical colleges don't do job afterwards because of many reasons(which is logically totally outrageous as you are wasting a seat and the money of the government spent on you to make you a doc. You can very well imagine the expenses govt has to spend by looking at the fee of private medical colleges!) But this is not confirmed yet. 

So girls, you gonna have to face even a tougher competition! Brace yourselves now and start preparing as much as you can. Good luck! :thumbsup:


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## h.a. (Dec 6, 2011)

its just a rumor because this is not possible sindh govt tried this many times but fail to do that and if in any case it would be imposed then court will null and void this because its against law


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## Amphetamine (Oct 12, 2012)

Rumor or not,I for one would support this initiative.Almost 50% percent of the girls who get admission get married and stay at home.
Only those girls who are seeking a professional career would then look towards this field,not those who just want an MBBS degree to find
a better 'rishta' and I don't think its illegal to do so;they have rational reasons to back this up.
And also I'm not being biased here-I'm also a girl.


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## Chachu (Mar 29, 2012)

Amphetamine said:


> Rumor or not,I for one would support this initiative.Almost 50% percent of the girls who get admission get married and stay at home.
> Only those girls who are seeking a professional career would then look towards this field,not those who just want an MBBS degree to find
> a better 'rishta' and I don't think its illegal to do so;they have rational reasons to back this up.
> And also I'm not being biased here-I'm also a girl.


Totally agreed. 50% is an understatement. should be 25% or something. 80-90% of female MBBS degree holders dont practise -_-


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## jamal (Feb 15, 2012)

Amphetamine said:


> Rumor or not,I for one would support this initiative.Almost 50% percent of the girls who get admission get married and stay at home.
> Only those girls who are seeking a professional career would then look towards this field,not those who just want an MBBS degree to find
> a better 'rishta' and I don't think its illegal to do so;they have rational reasons to back this up.
> And also I'm not being biased here-I'm also a girl.


....yup you are right


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## Amphetamine (Oct 12, 2012)

ms1995 said:


> so if those girls don't practice medicine, is it a valid reason to take away their right of education? Must harvard stop accepting international students because they don't practice in the U.S?


And if someone posts their opinion on a forum you PM them to get a reply?I'll reply just this once and FYI NO ONE is taking their right of education.Seats ratio was applicable till the late 90's,so its nothing new.Harvard may not need to,but in a third world country where there is a shortage of doctors and the government spends billions subsidizing the medical education,we need to do some planning.
And this should also apply to engineering, for all I care.


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## h.a. (Dec 6, 2011)

Amphetamine said:


> Rumor or not,I for one would support this initiative.Almost 50% percent of the girls who get admission get married and stay at home.
> Only those girls who are seeking a professional career would then look towards this field,not those who just want an MBBS degree to find
> a better 'rishta' and I don't think its illegal to do so;they have rational reasons to back this up.
> And also I'm not being biased here-I'm also a girl.


sorry i am not agree :?i dont know about previous stats but there should be equal rights of everything:: if someone wants to continue or not is ones problem but when one fills legal bond before getting admition in form of affidavit to serve for 5 years including 1 year in rural area then???????after 5 years if they leave and start private practice or not..... govt has already recovered their money they spend on that student in that time ,and tooo many boys rush to saudia arabia for some 30,000 riyal job after 5 years :Blackalien: the problem is from both sides if govt take such initiative i will be one of those who sue them


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## Chachu (Mar 29, 2012)

h.a. said:


> sorry i am not agree :?i dont know about previous stats but there should be equal rights of everything:: if someone wants to continue or not is ones problem but when one fills legal bond before getting admition in form of affidavit to serve for 5 years including 1 year in rural area then???????after 5 years if they leave and start private practice or not..... govt has already recovered their money they spend on that student in that time ,and tooo many boys rush to saudia arabia for some 30,000 riyal job after 5 years :Blackalien: the problem is from both sides if govt take such initiative i will be one of those who sue them


You're not getting the point. It's not about just recovering money. Almost all of the boys apply in med schools to develop their careers in medicine. Most of them can't get in due to extraordinarily high merits set-up by girls. It's ok, no one's taking their right to study, but at least they should now why they're studying it; if it's for upgrading their social life, I guess they don't deserve it at all. 
Sons of government servants who can't afford private med schools would have a really hard time getting admissions in govt. colleges, or (in prevalent case)kissing their careers goodbye! :/
I don't see any reason why this rumour shouldn't be true.


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## ms1995 (Aug 20, 2011)

Amphetamine said:


> And if someone posts their opinion on a forum you PM them to get a reply?I'll reply just this once and FYI NO ONE is taking their right of education.Seats ratio was applicable till the late 90's,so its nothing new.Harvard may not need to,but in a third world country where there is a shortage of doctors and the government spends billions subsidizing the medical education,we need to do some planning.
> And this should also apply to engineering, for all I care.


Whine whine whine. 
Spend the same time in studying for the tests and then maybe those girls who take those seats wouldn't matter to you. (i know you're a girl as you mentioned above).

I pm'ed you so that you wouldn't PMS over here which you've already done.
If those girls are studying so hard to get proposals for marriage or to increase their standing then it's their right. Harvard doesn't stop accepting people from the world because they won't practice. What you do with your education is your personal choice. And if you're so concerned about the problems with Pakistan then please do BA in Political Science and then join the govt to solve these problems.

Those girls are working way harder for that than the guys are for their so called "Career building".


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## Username (Sep 26, 2012)

Agreed ^


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## bkn (Sep 6, 2012)

thats not fair at all! thats chauvanism!


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## ms1995 (Aug 20, 2011)

I'm a guy but I believe in equal rights for both men and women.

There is absolutely no reason to take out the frustration of your rejection from elite schools in such a way.
Do BA Political Science if you want to resolve the problems. 
Amphetamine is implying : 
Lets say that to resolve the health problems of Pakistan; Pakistan govt stops Pakistani doctors from practising/specializing abroad. People from Amphetamine's school of thought will come on to say "I studied those 5 years, its my right to do what i want with my education, who is the govt of Pakistan to stop me from going abroad, its my life". (Reference : MBBS doctors leave Pakistan in huge groups every year to another country)

I know you didn't say the above, but that's a hypothetical relation relative to your post above so that you can understand my point.

That's what you're proposing with your so called planning. So lets not be hypocritical here but rather FAIR. Merit shall prevail. You want it, WORK for it.

Caution :No PUN intended.


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## ComputerKid (May 23, 2012)

This is an interesting discussion. My thoughts on the topic are that before any action is taken, we all need to identify and accept the problem which exists. That problem is that we are facing a severe shortage of doctors in the rural areas of the country. This point needs to be very clearly understood. We don't have a shortage of doctors as a nation but we have a shortage of doctors *where we need them*.

According to the 2010 census, Pakistan's population is 72% rural and 28% urban (in the cities). So almost 3 out of every 4 patients in the country are not living in the major metropolitan areas. Now we all know that basic education and healthcare for every Pakistani are the two biggest factors that will improve our nation's life expectancy, infant mortality rate, and overall our country's status in the world. So if out of every 100 patients, 72 of them are in the rural areas, where should 72 out of every 100 doctors be working? Of course, the answer is in the rural areas. Do we currently have 72% of our doctors working in the rural areas? Of course not. And therein lies the first problem.

Now the second problem is that a medical education is not cheap. Someone must pay for it. If you go to a private medical college, you or your family are paying for it. But if you go to a government medical college, you and your family are only paying a small fraction of the overall cost. Guess who is paying the rest of it? The government! Now if the government is investing in your education by paying for a large portion of it, the government should be able to reap some benefit from this act. This is only fair. If you invest in a business, you will want to make some profit from it, not just see your money go to waste. The same principle applies here. But the problem is that this principle doesn't apply in Pakistan. People will get a world class education for very cheap because of the government footing the bill and then they will not serve their country in any capacity.

The argument was made comparing this system to that of Harvard but that is a completely different scenario. First of all, Harvard is a private college and your tuition is not being payed at all by the U.S. government. Second of all, Harvard is not losing money by having you be their student. The opposite is true--they are making money when you attend.

So there are two solutions to these two problems.

The first solution is that no restrictions are placed on female MBBS seats. Girls are allowed to compete equally against boys for the same government college seats. Whoever is admitted must sign a contract to serve a certain number of years in the rural areas where doctors are in short supply. If women want to become a physician in Pakistan then they should face the reality of what being a physician in Pakistan requires. It is not only five years of MBBS, but a commitment to serve where their service is needed the most: the rural villages of Pakistan. The same exact requirement will apply to the men also. This way both men and women will be able to compete equally and serve their country equally. After that you can quit practicing forever, go abroad, do whatever you want. Your debt to your country will have been repaid and you are free to do as you please.

The second solution is that we do limit the percentage of seats that women are eligible for every year. It may sound unfair and sexist but the reality is that this is not America and the majority of women are not the main earners in their family. Blame it on our culture, our religion, or whatever, but the reality is that women do not carry the same financial responsibility for their families that men in Pakistan do. If we limit the number of seats that are available for women, we will increase the number of doctors who are willing to go into the rural areas and serve their country. Will it become harder for women to become doctors? Of course, it will. Is it fair? No it is not fair at all. But what else can be done? We cannot pretend we are a different country than we are. We cannot hope that hoping for a different reality will make it come true. We need to face the hard truths that due to different reasons, the majority of our female physician workforce is neither willing nor interested in working in rural villages after graduation. This may sound sexist, but it is also a fact.

Something needs to be done. Whichever one of the two solutions are decided upon will definitely upset some people. The thing to remember is that these policies are not made to subjugate women or confine them to their homes but to increase the health and prosperity of the nation's sick and needy. If we have 72% of doctors in the cities and 72% of the sick in the villages, what is the point of all this? Are we really helping others or are we only helping ourselves?


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## ms1995 (Aug 20, 2011)

ComputerKid said:


> This is an interesting discussion. My thoughts on the topic are that before any action is taken, we all need to identify and accept the problem which exists. That problem is that we are facing a severe shortage of doctors in the rural areas of the country. This point needs to be very clearly understood. We don't have a shortage of doctors as a nation but we have a shortage of doctors *where we need them*.
> 
> According to the 2010 census, Pakistan's population is 72% rural and 28% urban (in the cities). So almost 3 out of every 4 patients in the country are not living in the major metropolitan areas. Now we all know that basic education and healthcare for every Pakistani are the two biggest factors that will improve our nation's life expectancy, infant mortality rate, and overall our country's status in the world. So if out of every 100 patients, 72 of them are in the rural areas, where should 72 out of every 100 doctors be working? Of course, the answer is in the rural areas. Do we currently have 72% of our doctors working in the rural areas? Of course not. And therein lies the first problem.
> 
> ...



Well done. First of all I'd like to appreciate that you took out the time and researched about the whole problem. You have outlined the problem with two possible solutions in a very good way. 

I would however like to comment on your understanding about Harvard and some other things.
Harvard is a Private University which has been rated the number one university in the world. All universities want to become or at best emulate Harvard in some way or the other. Harvard was just used as an example to recognize a supreme authority on education.

Now to correct you, Harvard is for profit (I agree) and is private (I agree) with a lot of endowment. One could probably create a country and run it for several years with the amount of endowment Harvard has. However, you need to be aware of Harvard's Admission procedures. Harvard has a need based financial aid package (intl student do not pay back this aid, it is considered scholarship for them) where International students who cannot afford Harvard are taught for free, their airfare from Pakistan is paid by Harvard, their tuition, room and board is also paid along with a monthly stipend. This is what Harvard provides you with if you are at their level of intellect. Bear in mind though that Harvard considers your application without assessing your ability to afford Harvard. If you can score well on standardized tests and can come up to their standards then you're funded by Harvard. I can name at least 2 Pakistani's that I personally know who were taught in Pakistan and went on full scholarships to Harvard, airfare, meal plan, room, tuition, books, monthly stipend all paid by Harvard. There are many Pakistanis as well as tons of international students who if accepted to Harvard are funded by Harvard. Harvard only asks you to pay tuition if you can afford it, they don't accept/reject you based on your economic standing.

So for a private institution (for profit) to spend around $70,000/year for 4 years on an international student with a Pakistani passport, would ultimately according to your and amphetamine's thinking be a loss to Harvard, since these international students do not promise or sign any contract with Harvard to practice at Harvard or in the U.S. And also because Harvard isn't making any profit off them.

Now this is not just Harvard. These types of colleges include, Stanford, MIT, Dartmouth, Yale etc. And almost all Private liberal arts colleges offer at least half tuition off if not full to international students who show academic potential.

About the shortage of Doctors in rural area, let me tell you that a local student who gets into K.E. F.J or any of the public sector colleges does sign an oath which says that they will serve a minimum of 3 years (maybe more) at a govt selected place of employment. Rural or Urban will be decided by the govt of the province. I have read this contract myself and know that this is signed by all local candidates who get in on open merit. You can verify this. This contract also states that if the student is not willing to participate in this he/she can pay a sum of around 5 lacs (could be a little less or more) and get out of this contract. So the cost of education for 5 years of MBBS is approx 5 lacs in total that the govt bears. The problem in the system is that when students graduate, the govt is UNABLE to provide them a govt job at any of the rural areas or the city hospitals due to unavailability of funding and the service structure (which current docs are fighting for).
The govt fails to place mbbs graduates and it is very difficult for all graduates to even find housejob. Some of them end up doing honorary house jobs which means they work 1 year for free just to get the house job so they can register with PMDC as a qualified doctor. 

So to correct you, a contract does exist, but there are no resources such as funding and/or infrastructure for rural hospitals. At the time of earthquakes you must've witnessed how people from different walks of life spent so much money on air tickets,cars, medicines, tents, clothes, and went to those rural area and even served there for a while. Most of the local students come from rural areas/villages so they would have no problem working in places where their family is. The problem is there are no jobs or infrastructure for graduates, the govt itself forfeits its contract and the graduates are free from govt liability.

There is no reason to place quotas on admission seats and it should not be done. If someone really wants to be a doctor and help people they should be able to compete. The female doctors do practice and trends are changing, there are more female doctors practising now than there were 5 years ago. Also if you look at the Army, the female cadets spend 13 years working for the army after their MBBS. The YDA doctors have a forum and they are fighting for a service structure which will take care of most problems.

Im editing this post to include another user's post which details the terms of the contract (Saw this after i posted) :


sidnaq said:


> " I solemnly declarethat I will serve the province of the Punjab for a period of FIVE years(including two years in a rural area) after graduation if a job is offered tome by the government or in default thereof pay Rs.5,00,000/- in lump sum to theGovernment of the Punjab"
> from uhs website ANEXURE (I) point number 7.
> 
> see??? this is what i was talking about! ::


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## ComputerKid (May 23, 2012)

^^ Great post and very informative. Glad we are having this discussion because I have learned a lot. I attend a private medical college so was unaware of the pledge/contract that students are asked to sign. I also was unaware of the situation where graduates have to do honorary housejobs. I agree that the government needs to make jobs available for graduates. If they cannot sustain that number of graduates they need to either limit the number of seats per year or increase the number of hospitals/positions.

I agree that limiting the number of seats for women is not the best solution by a long shot. It isn't progressive and forward-looking at all. If we establish this, then when do we take it away? 10 years from now? 50 years from now? We do want to encourage women to be able to have the same career aspirations as men and if we do limit their seats, we are going to slow down that impetus for change. 

I think the first solution I suggested (which is by no means my novel idea), with a government that is able to provide salaries and positions for all doctors, irrespective of gender, is what Pakistan needs. I hope this happens sooner than later.


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## ms1995 (Aug 20, 2011)

ComputerKid said:


> ^^ Great post and very informative. Glad we are having this discussion because I have learned a lot. I attend a private medical college so was unaware of the pledge/contract that students are asked to sign. I also was unaware of the situation where graduates have to do honorary housejobs. I agree that the government needs to make jobs available for graduates. If they cannot sustain that number of graduates they need to either limit the number of seats per year or increase the number of hospitals/positions.
> 
> I agree that limiting the number of seats for women is not the best solution by a long shot. It isn't progressive and forward-looking at all. If we establish this, then when do we take it away? 10 years from now? 50 years from now? We do want to encourage women to be able to have the same career aspirations as men and if we do limit their seats, we are going to slow down that impetus for change.
> 
> I think the first solution I suggested (which is by no means my novel idea), with a government that is able to provide salaries and positions for all doctors, irrespective of gender, is what Pakistan needs. I hope this happens sooner than later.


Im glad to finally find someone who can rationally reason.
To add more, even if a woman is not practising Medicine that does not mean she is not helping the community or that her education was/is a waste. There could be several incidents where she could use her education to save someone's life. She could be travelling in a plane where a doctor is needed, she could be living in a remote area where there is no doctor for basic treatment. And also MBBS is a bachelor's degree, many graduates go on to do PHD straight after MBBS. Some of these graduates then become professors, or get involved in re-search leaving the clinical side behind them.

If we limited the number of female students for MBBS there would be other problems, for example, there would be very few female gynaecologists. Women do like to see female gynaecologists. I think what you said is the only way about it, govt needs to look into creating more jobs and providing the infrastructure. 

There are many new private medical colleges being established and the female's who CAN afford such private education will definitely practise in the future. The one's who're reluctant to practise medicine (due to their conservative nature) do not usually spend so much money on private education. Point being these seats at new private med schools are either being taken up my men or by women who will practise after spending around 40 lacs on a 5 year mbbs education. So the gap is being filled in somewhat a slow manner.


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## ahmed93 (Sep 26, 2012)

yes. I wish they implement this rule, Most girls do not continue work after MBBS degree. There is a case even in my family. I don't that would i get admission this time or not but I wish this rule be implemented in the future.


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## h.a. (Dec 6, 2011)

i strongly agreed with ms1995 and computerkid i am glad you guys have optimistic thinking  if we have a problem then we have to figure it out not cut it out... if you have muscle ache you will find solution for it or cut your muscle.......:? resources of a country belongs to every one without difference of gender cast creed no one deserves more our society is motivating our gals right of education,job i myself sees a gal who lives in village do masters in double maths and now she is teaching from teaching to air force where gals go they create a competition which is highly productive if you scare from that competition and find that boys deserves more then we live in 17th century nothing else :bag:there may be considerable ratio of gals who leave their profession but that is past just see the competitive era of today now gals have planned their future when they sign bond what that means they are not bound to that what they signed. if you have a poor country limited resources then its your mistake not gals mistake cut the corruption you will have plentiful resources but "limiting" education on gals on basis of resources that boy deserves more is racism what else!:banghead:!!!! and you guys know after 5 years how many doctors continue in govt hospital??????????


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## Majh (Apr 1, 2012)

h.a. said:


> and you guys know after 5 years how many doctors continue in govt hospital??????????


Well... After reading your post, rereading it, and still not getting it, I can only say one thing. HA, please use punctuation. Lack of punctuation annoys the heck out of most people. Now to answer your question. Quite a lot of doctors do continue in govt. hospitals. What they do is that they continue on in their post but they don't actually come. Instead they have their MO telling the patients that if you want to see doctor sahab come to this clinic at this time. Which is actually their private clinic where they can rob them blind. Private practice does not work on legal means alone. You have to fish patients in and why not do that from the biggest pond? The public sector. Oh... btw, these people are still getting their pay from the govt for doing squat. Of course I'm not saying that all private practices run on people exploiting their government positions and I'm not saying that all govt workers are like that either. But A startling number of people do do this. People have completely disregarded the hippocratic oath that they take before becoming a doctor...


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## h.a. (Dec 6, 2011)

i dont know what annoy people........... the thing that annoy me is limitation of seats for girls not limitation of punctuations


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## red rose (Oct 29, 2011)

this rule of 50% seats for boys should be supported , because its the utmost need of our country and keeping in view the behaviour of young lady doctors , it is now necessary.......


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## Chachu (Mar 29, 2012)

Beautiful discussion with quite informative posts.
After all that is being discussed, the point remains that we cannot sacrifice the right to careers by just repaying the govt in 5 lacs, or 3 years of house jobs (ideal condition).
The competition is fair, no doubt about that. Though the amount of seats taken up by females is ridiculously higher than males, and such ratio can only be justified if nearly the same ratio continues in their professional lives, which we all know, doesn't. In fact its just the opposite (ridiculously higher number of males, much fewer females). That simply means that there were gaps made by the female community, who may utilise their knowledge in much more narrower aspect; save a couple of lives in their entire life tenure, than save dozens of lives in a single day. The males who were left behind in their admissoins could've proved much more productive.
Even if 'equal rights' formula was used, then the 50:50 quota is supremely fair. Which means 50% of females, and 50% males will be inducted in Med Schools. The numbes will be equal, and the vague idea of female empowerment could be tested in its fairness. It'll simply mean that Females will be competing against their own competition, and males against their own. The productivity will definitely increase, and once the govt. ensures greater employment rate (idealistic thinking), we'll get to now whether women really take up those careers in full numbers (which again, practically speaking, will not happen).


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## Nouman... (May 25, 2012)

h.a. said:


> sorry i am not agree :?i dont know about previous stats but there should be equal rights of everything:: if someone wants to continue or not is ones problem but when one fills legal bond before getting admition in form of affidavit to serve for 5 years including 1 year in rural area then???????after 5 years if they leave and start private practice or not..... govt has already recovered their money they spend on that student in that time ,and tooo many boys rush to saudia arabia for some 30,000 riyal job after 5 years :Blackalien: the problem is from both sides if govt take such initiative i will be one of those who sue them


You are right that there should be equal rights for everyone that's what it is i.e. 50% for both genders. Peace!


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## h.a. (Dec 6, 2011)

Nouman... said:


> You are right that there should be equal rights for everyone that's what it is i.e. 50% for both genders. Peace!


how smart!! why not 100 %


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## Amphetamine (Oct 12, 2012)

First of all the only reason why I advocate the quota system is because of "the rishta-hunting" trend going on around
in our country. Why do girls covet the medical profession although they shudder at the sight of a mere frog dissection?
Why is it that they guilt their parents into paying for their private education?Because of their love of profession?love of education?To elp humanity?
NO-they just want better and richer hubbies.

Secondly, its 50-50, not 30-70 or 60-40, based on the gender population ratio.
If you don't want that, then reserve 1000 seats each for boys and girls and the other 1000 for open merit.(considering 3000 seats in punjab and those open 1000 would probably get taken by girls anyway )

Educational rights,falany rights-you people are asking for cake and puddings when we don't have spare bread crumbs to provide.
The army abolished the 5 female medical seats and not a single finger got raised at them.



> Originally Posted by *sidnaq*  " I solemnly declarethat I will serve the province of the Punjab for a period of FIVE years(including two years in a rural area) after graduationif a job is offered tome by the government or in default thereof pay Rs.5,00,000/- in lump sum to theGovernment of the Punjab"
> from uhs website ANEXURE (I) point number 7.


Correct me if I'm wrong :? (I think I am)the bond/affedavit works only if you get to work for Punjab government.If you decide to go abroad to make big money or to get married no one is going to wrangle the taxpayer money; you wasted, from you?/



And I agree with h.a that penalties and mandatory service and as such measure are better than going a step backward and limiting the seats.
But here's the problem: YDA wants more pay for those who work there,YDA Wants security,YDA wants pay-scale and whenever
government appoints them to chhechawatni kay some village they go on a strike.
And this mandatory rural service thing has been around for some 40 years I guess,my dad were posted too and the doctors 
at that time didnot protest against this like they do now.

Why would anyone want to learn every name of the every artery that goes to the smallest part of the smallest organ
just so they can get educated?so they can raise a better family?" Baita darkhton par mat chara karo tmahre maxilla,mandible,sphenoid ko 
kuch ho jaay gay".
By the quota system girls would not stop becoming doctors and life as we know would not seize.OR Is it that bad?
If someone doesn't want to practice its his or her choice but we need to promote the professional behavior not the cliches. 


> People from Amphetamine's school of thought will come on to say "I studied those 5 years, its my right to do what i want with my education, who is the govt of Pakistan to stop me from going abroad, its my life". (Reference : MBBS doctors leave Pakistan in huge groups every year to another country)


I would also happily back this initiative,if the government spends hard-earned taxpayers' money for my education, morally and legally 
my first and last priority should be to serve my country.


Here's what can be done to improve the current crisis going on:
Option A- Allocate more funds to healthcare, build more and better hospitals to provide jobs,renew the current policy.....
Option B- Increase the pay of doctors,provide them better incentives,provide security especially for the lady doctors
So they don't sit at home.
Option C- Defame the doctors by media-campaigns, beat them up,label them as killers.
Option D- Blame the doctors for sitting at home and going abroad,then apply short-term measures such as mandatory service,quotas,...

Option A is impossible,our scumbag government is too lazy and bankrupt to work on the somewhat plausible option B and option C is currently
on going,rumors surround the option D.

The quota system may be unfair,but in the eyes of our officials its more effective and quicker than providing better healthcare facilities.
In short, if zaini had said something like rumor's around that the government is going to implement the mandatory service across the board
my earlier post would have been exactly the same. And I don't have a problem if someone cannot practice medicine due to marriage or any other personal matter but if the sole reason us girls want to join this field is to go on a rishta-window-shoppin-spree then something is seriously wrong
with our society.

And P.s- someone here suggested that I'm whining because I couldn't get admission myself,I don't mean to brag but 
my AMC classes (probably) start from 5th Nov and that someone is also making a big deal out of my rejection from AKU.


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## Amphetamine (Oct 12, 2012)

^I can't believe I spent almost an hour typing this stuff down and its still incoherent :thumbsdown:, hats off to all those who have the zeal for writing such long posts on this forum.


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## h.a. (Dec 6, 2011)

OMG RELAX Amphetamine i dont know about those who do tooooooooooooooooo much study for "rishta" oh GOD every time you keep talking about this i am not getting your point. girls who leave, in my opinion, they make private clinic at ground floor of their home and earn lot of money especially gyne docx . our education system is already a laughing stock if we come with quota system then hats off... what yda is doing thats wrong the representatives of YDA are boys they are not willing to go some village:woot:. what we have to do is to discourage those who quit afterwards when we got admission we will make sure no one in our batch quit thats it................. :thumbsup:


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## h.a. (Dec 6, 2011)

and on latest U.N. report on basis of education we come to 113 out of 120 countries :!:


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## ms1995 (Aug 20, 2011)

Amphetamine said:


> First of all the only reason why I advocate the quota system is because of "the rishta-hunting" trend going on around
> in our country. Why do girls covet the medical profession although they shudder at the sight of a mere frog dissection?
> Why is it that they guilt their parents into paying for their private education?Because of their love of profession?love of education?To elp humanity?
> NO-they just want better and richer hubbies.
> ...


Amphetamine, I am starting at amc this year and I know that classes have moved from November to December . Maybe if you were going there you'd be aware of the new date of joining that was announced quite a few weeks ago - i wouldn't want you to go to amc on november 5th  .

To clear Chachu's confusion, house job is for 1 year, after that a medical graduate goes on to become M.O (Medical Officer and gets paid about 45,000/month). The govt is spending approx 5 lacs/year on an open merit seat and thats why it asks you to repay this amount back if you want to go somewhere else. Had they spent more they would ask for the amount. However this contract is not taking effect due to the govt's inability.

This post started off from saying girls take all the seats and has ended at a fair conclusion of 50 - 50. Equal right for both men and women is what i started with and this is along the lines. I agree to that but that should run on pilot to see what it does for the country since private colleges are being made every other year. Mostly males are the ones who're spending the lacs to get the medical education. And believe it or not only illiterate land grabbers marry females for their doctor qualification. Educated and the wealthy tend to select their own bride and the ones who go for arrange marriage are not just limited to doctor hunting rishtas - they are open to a lot more professions.

I'm non fsc but maybe if some fsc girls share their opinions we'd get to know a lot more since this is just one facet of the so called problem at large. And doctor's can work in the govt without passing the punjab service commission tests but the govt has very limited posts for blue eyed candidates.

The YDA forum is not asking for raises alone but they are asking for a structure where a doctor is encouraged to stay in pakistan. Their demands are valid. Had it not been for them a house job candidate would get 16,000. YDA made it 25,000 after years of struggle. Btw a Daewoo driver gets 25,000  so yes you need YDA if any of you want to get married and support a family. YDA was the most active organization in the earth quakes going to rural areas. When you expect your doctors to serve in the rural areas, you provide them with facilities, perks, other incentives but the govt doesn't. We all have a stomach to feed.

And i'm glad that you became "waili" trying to get your point across. It's good to take part in discussion, makes you a better person you know.
As a last, Islam teaches us to get out of our houses, even country for better education opportunities and to gain the most education possible. Islam also tells Muslims not to waste their life away by sitting idle, so housewives sitting at home and not practising Medicine is also a religious issue. Instead of introducing quotas, why not become better Muslims first which will take care of everything.


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## Majh (Apr 1, 2012)

Hmm... I don't get why people are for the 50-50 thing. I mean... I wouldn't like it if I was judged on gender rather than merit. I'm happy that girls get better grades than guys, get more seats and then don't do jobs. That opens up the job market for guys like me... So yeah... That's that.


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## heartbreak (Jan 31, 2012)

I would agree with a limit to female admissions in MBBS:

-Like 70% of students are girls, there are even girl-only colleges, but no boy-only ones.
-In Pakistan for some reason, medicine is considered a girl's profession and engineering is a boy's one which is dumb but prevalent, just like badminton here is considered a girl's game, and football a boys. This might break that mindset.
-Girls use good degrees as a tool to attract better marriages, instead of actually practicing it and helping anyone.

And I think there are two solutions to end this problem, I like the second one better:

-Making 50% of seats reserved for boys. Problem being that 75% of the girls are still gonna sit home after it.
-Forcing everyone (girls+boys) to sign a contract entitling them to work for at least 10 years after MBBS. A girl can still marry a boy, but at least she's working alongside it or studying whatever.

The second one seems more fair because it will ensure that selection is based on merit rather than gender, while at the same time ensuring that whoever studies also practices medicine at least for a decent amount of time. Like they do in the army I think.


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## ms1995 (Aug 20, 2011)

heartbreak said:


> I would agree with a limit to female admissions in MBBS:
> 
> -Like 70% of students are girls, there are even girl-only colleges, but no boy-only ones.
> -In Pakistan for some reason, medicine is considered a girl's profession and engineering is a boy's one which is dumb but prevalent, just like badminton here is considered a girl's game, and football a boys. This might break that mindset.
> ...


I like that but that's dictatorship. We live in a free world.
Govt can't satisfy/feed current doctors, you think the govt can accommodate those girls if they decide to work?
Better yet just import doctors from China- besides china is the most over populated country - wouldn't hurt them!  .. haha just kidding.


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## heartbreak (Jan 31, 2012)

Haha, they don't have to stay and continue studying in Pakistan, they can do it abroad as well, as long as they serve humanity if they don't serve Pakistan. But the accommodation part is right actually, it's hard to implement. It's applicable only if more medical facilities are built. That will hopefully happen, maybe then it should be implemented.


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## Majh (Apr 1, 2012)

Hmm... You're forgetting that all these women don't just sit home after getting their MBBS degrees. Quite a lot of them work for NGOs or free dispensaries. It's not like they do nothing after they get their degrees. And on top of that, they do free work so yeah... They're not useless to Pakistan.


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## ms1995 (Aug 20, 2011)

Majh said:


> Hmm... You're forgetting that all these women don't just sit home after getting their MBBS degrees. Quite a lot of them work for NGOs or free dispensaries. It's not like they do nothing after they get their degrees. And on top of that, they do free work so yeah... They're not useless to Pakistan.


My experience when I visited hosps in Lahore, Islamabad, Pindi. I saw more female doctors than male doctors. One can go to Mayo hospital Lahore and there are tons of female doctors working. Adil hospital, National hospital, and Omar hospital, all on call emergency doctors are females at these hospitals. I don't know if it was just that day but i've never seen abundance of male doctors!. Rural/village areas have political issues!

So many women doctors are professors at medical colleges. Open the faculty page of any college and you'll be surprised!


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## Hajra (Sep 25, 2012)

every time i see the heading on this thread it makes my blood boil.and not cuz i am a girl as i have nothing to do with this quota system if God forbid it is implemented cuz i didnt make it to the merit of gov colleges.its only the stupidity of it all that sets me on edge.i mean how stupid the government thinks we are? its one of those temporary non effective solutions of the government to a major problem. i dont think it is very much different from turning the clock an hour forward to save electricity and combat load shedding and we all know how effective that proved to be :roll:.
i am from one of the most conservative families of this country, the the-girls-in-our-family-never-do-jobs type of family and i know how things and certain traditions that were stopping us from persuing a career have changed. now even the most conservative of men have come to realize that it is impossible to cater to the needs of the whole family alone in this ever increasing inflation. i am an example in this case cuz my father is willing to pay millions of rupees for my private mbbs taking in account of the fact that he will have to spend an equal amount on my marriage too cuz he believes that rich husband or not i need a career for a good life. if i were looking for a good proposal then a simple bs degree with a fancy name could have done the job so i think it is very rude and stereotypical of those people who are supporting this quota thing with arguments like these.
i agree with computerkid that we have shortage of doctors where we need them but reducing the number of seats for girls is just not the answer. we all know that if girls just become housewives men run abroad for a better career. and this is only cuz there is nothing to attract them to work in rural areas. no big salaries, no schooling for their kids, no proper markets nothing. if they have worked hard day and night to become doctors they atleast have a right to all of these. so i think instead of supporting this quota system we need to demand facilities in rural areas. and if we take the rules and traditions of the people living in rural areas into account we will come to know that the men there prefer to take their wives,daughters etc to lady doctors and some are so strict about it that they rather let their women die than take them to a male doctor. so taking in account all of this i think this is a rubbish suggestion and i dont think it should be approved.


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## ms1995 (Aug 20, 2011)

Hajra said:


> every time i see the heading on this thread it makes my blood.and not cuz i am a girl as i have nothing to do with this quota system if God forbid it is implemented cuz i didnt make it to the merit of gov colleges.its only the stupidity of it all that sets me on edge.i mean how stupid the government thinks we are? its one of those temporary non effective solutions of the government to a major problem. i dont think it is very much different from turning the clock an hour forward to save electricity and combat load shedding and we all know how effective that proved to be :roll:.
> i am from one of the most conservative families of this country, the the-girls-in-our-family-never-do-jobs type of family and i know how things and certain traditions that were stopping us from persuing a career have changed. now even the most conservative of men have come to realize that it is impossible to cater to the needs of the whole family alone in this ever increasing inflation. i am an example in this case cuz my father is willing to pay to pay millions of rupees for my private mbbs taking in account of the fact that he will have to spend an equal amount on my marriage too cuz he believes that rich husband or not i need a career for a good life. if i were looking for a good proposal then a simple bs degree with a fancy name could have done the job so i think it is very rude and stereotypical of those people who are supporting this quota thing with arguments like these.
> i agree with computerkid that we have shortage of doctors where we need them but reducing the number of seats for girls is just not the answer. we all know that if girls just become housewives men run abroad for a better career. and this is only cuz there is nothing to attract them to work in rural areas. no big salaries, no schooling for their kids, no proper markets nothing. if they have worked hard day and night to become doctors they atleast have a right to all of these. so i think instead of supporting this quota system we need to demand facilities in rural areas. and if we take the rules and traditions of the people living in rural areas into account we will come to know that the men there prefer to take their wives,daughters etc to lady doctors and some are so strict about it that they rather leet their womwn die than take them to a male doctor. so taking in account all of this i think this is a rubbish suggestion and i dont think it should be approved.


No the quota system is def not a solution i take my words back on the 50 50. Thats because if 50 50 was implemented then maybe a girl who wouldve practiced couldnt get in coz the quota was up for the year. The quota was abolished for a reason. I think frustrated rejects wont stop finding excuses in blaming others for their rejection.


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## Hajra (Sep 25, 2012)

@ms 1995. thank u for agreeing to what i have said.

and i apologize for being a bit hostile about my point of view but all of this was like a bang on my head. i am an emotional pakistani after all. just couldnt hold it back. i just dont agree to boys being all pampered for their lack of hard work and determination required for the medical career.if they want in then they should compete with all their power without worrying about the fact that if they are competing against girls or boys or else just chicken out.easy peasy. and the government should just stop wasting our time by coming up with these solutions that will take us nowhere. we need some permanent remedies to our problems.


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## heartbreak (Jan 31, 2012)

I still think the ideal solution is by taking measures to make sure everyone who gets the degree works for at least some time. A lot of people will find this extreme but...we should learn from what Hitler did. Hitler took Germany from a nothing-state and turned it into an economically prosperous place. He did it simply by forcing people into work by giving incentives to those who worked or simply not offering a choice and discouraging unemployment by removing luxurious rights. To complement that, he built facility after facility, favoring quantity over quality knowing quality would improve over time itself. And that's with a Germany whose economy was seemingly shattered beyond repair, in other words, this is possible in a country with the 47th largest economy which is not that bad.

The fact remains that many women still don't work after MBBS, this is not for those who do. My best friend, his mom is a doctor, and no body even knows about it. The fact is that qualified women usually attract rich men who can easily fulfill their needs and that's how they lose incentive to work, that's at least the case with my best friend. And yes, the same goes for men, graduating from a Pakistani medical college should mean you are forced to practice in Pakistan at least 10 years, regardless of whether or not they specialized from abroad. I for one am more than ready to do so, and would probably prefer to work here and serve my own country whether or not this law exists but I acknowledge I'm a rare exception so it's an example of men not playing their part too well either.

And I know for sure that in Pakistan for some reason, medicine is considered a girl's ideal job and engineering a boy's one. Most girls in Pakistan dream of becoming teachers when they are young, and doctors by the time they're older. Most boys in Pakistan dream of becoming soldiers when they're young, and engineers when they're older. I also know that a 50-50 is employed at least as far as Canada is concerned and it does well in attracting males who want something other than engineering, so now both men and women are somewhat equally interested in medicine. But again, I still think merit is more important than gender, so I don't agree with a 50-50 either. But surely, something has to be done to make sure that these degrees don't go to waste and are used completely.


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## Hajra (Sep 25, 2012)

heartbreak said:


> I still think the ideal solution is by taking measures to make sure everyone who gets the degree works for at least some time. A lot of people will find this extreme but...we should learn from what Hitler did. Hitler took Germany from a nothing-state and turned it into an economically prosperous place. He did it simply by forcing people into work by giving incentives to those who worked or simply not offering a choice and discouraging unemployment by removing luxurious rights. To complement that, he built facility after facility, favoring quantity over quality knowing quality would improve over time itself. And that's with a Germany whose economy was seemingly shattered beyond repair, in other words, this is possible in a country with the 47th largest economy which is not that bad.
> 
> The fact remains that many women still don't work after MBBS, this is not for those who do. My best friend, his mom is a doctor, and no body even knows about it. The fact is that qualified women usually attract rich men who can easily fulfill their needs and that's how they lose incentive to work, that's at least the case with my best friend. And yes, the same goes for men, graduating from a Pakistani medical college should mean you are forced to practice in Pakistan at least 10 years, regardless of whether or not they specialized from abroad. I for one am more than ready to do so, and would probably prefer to work here and serve my own country whether or not this law exists but I acknowledge I'm a rare exception so it's an example of men not playing their part too well either.
> 
> And I know for sure that in Pakistan for some reason, medicine is considered a girl's ideal job and engineering a boy's one. Most girls in Pakistan dream of becoming teachers when they are young, and doctors by the time they're older. Most boys in Pakistan dream of becoming soldiers when they're young, and engineers when they're older. I also know that a 50-50 is employed at least as far as Canada is concerned and it does well in attracting males who want something other than engineering, so now both men and women are somewhat equally interested in medicine. But again, I still think merit is more important than gender, so I don't agree with a 50-50 either. But surely, something has to be done to make sure that these degrees don't go to waste and are used completely.


i totally agree with u and the answer is simple....... provide them with facilities and they will be ready to work.i also agree that there were many women like your best friend's mother who gave up their career after they were married but the point is that things are changing now. i dont know about u but i belong to the setup where girls are normally not allowed to do jobs but its all changing although not with that much speed but still if the government provides the proper environment, all of us will see a lot of females actively persuing this career in a few years. i mean if u have ever been to the rural areas then you must know how difficult it is to practice there. too many patients to deal with, continuous load shedding, and then the medicines there are mostly tampered with so if the patients arent getting well then of course they will be furious and i think everyone here knows that just how rude illiterate people can be. so taking in account all these factors, i think even the most patriotic of person will run away from all of this in a matter of days. so in my opinion, the only answer is facilities. just the basic ones will do wonders in this dismal situation.


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## Grimes (Aug 26, 2012)

First of all let's make out what the problem really is:
Female candidates occupying greater number of seats in medical universities who later tend to stay at home.


The solution being offered is:
Limiting the number of seats for both male and female candidates.


Outcome:
Disastrous. The solution still has nothing to do with the problem. Those girls who will get admitted according to this formula will still include a large percentage that will tend to stay at home. Limiting the seat allocation does not encourage our female populace to practice therefore it is not benefiting anyone, let alone the country/humanity in any way. Reserving 50% of the seats for male candidates is not helping anyone either because there is no guarantee those men are going to stay in the country and benefit Pakistan. The problem still lies that there are not enough doctors willing to serve the nation. Some of you may say that at least the males practice to further their careers but let's keep in mind that this rumour has arisen due to the current situation of Pakistani doctors and the first and foremost outcome of this decision should be the betterment of Pakistan. 


Now if we even reserve 50% of the seats for male who is going to vouch for them that they are going to stay in the country and serve here. Let's face it, if you say women enter this field for the 'rishtas' then men also join for the 'paisa' and the latter is going to get out of the country in search of a better-paying job first chance he gets. 


The solution depends entirely upon our government which is highly gifted in its skills for lack of planning. If there are no essential facilities for the doctors working in rural areas then why would anyone, male or female, want to work here? Will limiting the number of seats encourage more doctors to go to these areas? Hell, no. The problem lies not with the balance of male and female doctors but with the lack of facilities provided to doctors. What the government needs to do is provide the workers with an incentive to stay here and work in the country. Fix that and you fix the economy and a hundred other problems.


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## ms1995 (Aug 20, 2011)

Grimes said:


> First of all let's make out what the problem really is:
> Female candidates occupying greater number of seats in medical universities who later tend to stay at home.
> 
> 
> ...


There is no need to introduce quotas or to force doctors to work 10 years in Pakistan. Its all inter-related. Like some of you said, fix the govt, pay the doctors what they deserve and why will they leave abroad? 
I know for a fact that thousands of male doctors leave every year for lucrative jobs and that leaves pakistan at the hands of those thousands of females who will likely practice in pakistan!

The times when females wouldn't be allowed to work was long back. Afterall right now people want their daughters to become doctors or teachers so they can have a respectable profession.
It is not right to stereotype all the females and their families this way. If they can send them to co-ed colleges im sure they have no problems in letting them work. It's more to do with the meagre pay of doctors. Why work for 25,000/month when your husband makes several crores a month? get what im saying? That doesn't mean the govt needs to pay crores, but it needs to give doctors respect through giving them a service structure, benefits, incentives, advancement.


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## heartbreak (Jan 31, 2012)

LOL, I know I'm gonna 'add fuel to the fire', but honestly, if this were the other way around, there would most certainly be women rights activists calling for a 50-50. And if it were in an Indian drama, there would be the sound of thunder in the background after every boy gets admission and a girl is left out.Now I demand men rights! Kidding of course...

But on a more serious note, ms1995 just pulled off the best solution, the only problem being that it's a very long term one. Because it will take a very long time to pay every doctor the amount they actually deserve, and we need a solution urgently. Because we do not have that many resources. Achieving what you said should be the long-term goal, but for the short-term, I say we force people. A problem with our government is that it's too lenient, look at countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia and others. They force people to do what's better for the country and what they get in return is a better system than Pakistan even though their institutions are probably not even as good as ours. And then we should also keep reminding girls about the fact that Islam says learning isn't a right, it's an obligation. And common sense says that if you have knowledge, you should utilize it rather than wasting it. To men they should say that sometimes there are things that are more important than money, your country being one of them. Why desert your country when it suits you after it has given you all it could have to make you what you are, so you've an obligation to pay it back. And also to men, don't marry a woman because of her degree, marry for virtue, that is what the Prophet recommended in the first place.


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## cefspan (Dec 25, 2011)

heartbreak said:


> LOL, I know I'm gonna 'add fuel to the fire', but honestly, if this were the other way around, there would most certainly be women rights activists calling for a 50-50. And if it were in an Indian drama, there would be the sound of thunder in the background after every boy gets admission and a girl is left out.Now I demand men rights! Kidding of course...
> 
> But on a more serious note, ms1995 just pulled off the best solution, the only problem being that it's a very long term one. Because it will take a very long time to pay every doctor the amount they actually deserve, and we need a solution urgently. Because we do not have that many resources. Achieving what you said should be the long-term goal, but for the short-term, I say we force people. A problem with our government is that it's too lenient, look at countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia and others. They force people to do what's better for the country and what they get in return is a better system than Pakistan even though their institutions are probably not even as good as ours. And then we should also keep reminding girls about the fact that Islam says learning isn't a right, it's an obligation. And common sense says that if you have knowledge, you should utilize it rather than wasting it. To men they should say that sometimes there are things that are more important than money, your country being one of them. Why desert your country when it suits you after it has given you all it could have to make you what you are, so you've an obligation to pay it back. And also to men, don't marry a woman because of her degree, marry for virtue, that is what the Prophet recommended in the first place.


salute to ur signature ..


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## Majh (Apr 1, 2012)

Pay the doctors what they deserve? It's mere supply and demand m'love. There are way too many doctors! And it's not like they're getting paid bad or anything. No matter how much money the government pumps into doctors they will never have enough. Just like PIA. have you seen their pilots' salaries? And then they want as much as Emirates' pilots. What Pakistani doctors don't see is that they're living in Pakistan. If the govt. spends all of their money on doctors then what'll the patients get?


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## ms1995 (Aug 20, 2011)

Majh said:


> Pay the doctors what they deserve? It's mere supply and demand m'love. There are way too many doctors! And it's not like they're getting paid bad or anything. No matter how much money the government pumps into doctors they will never have enough. Just like PIA. have you seen their pilots' salaries? And then they want as much as Emirates' pilots. What Pakistani doctors don't see is that they're living in Pakistan. If the govt. spends all of their money on doctors then what'll the patients get?



You must have some of your relative in the government lol.

Tell me this hunny bunny:

An mbbs doctor does 5 years of dog like study. Gives up his social life before getting into college and after getting into college only to concentrate on studying.

A daewoo driver learns how to drive from his relative at the age of 14 15. Starts working for a company at the age of 18. Even if he becomes a govt driver at 18 he gets, 25,000 + in benefits.

Please tell me if its fair that these two individuals at the end of the day take home 25,000 rupees/month. I am comparing a driver with a doctor. Driver is taking home 25,000/month at age 18. and Doctor is taking the same home at age 23. You need to broaden your intellectual capabilities majh. You are saying this is justified?No one has said they want salaries like in america or n e thin of the sort. A fresh graduate or an FCPS trainee cant even think about getting married at their salaries. The total amount spent on healthcare out of the budget is NOTHING. 

If you had a brain i'd like to explain the scarcity of doctors in Pakistan. Please google the shortage of doctors in Pakistan. There are thousands of people for every 1 doctor in pakistan.


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## cefspan (Dec 25, 2011)

Majh said:


> Pay the doctors what they deserve? It's mere supply and demand m'love. There are way too many doctors! And it's not like they're getting paid bad or anything. No matter how much money the government pumps into doctors they will never have enough. Just like PIA. have you seen their pilots' salaries? And then they want as much as Emirates' pilots. What Pakistani doctors don't see is that they're living in Pakistan. If the govt. spends all of their money on doctors then what'll the patients get?


kidding me lad?
do u know whats the net health budget of PUNJAB? 
compare it with the budget of Military Medical Corpse and u will be like = :!:


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## Majh (Apr 1, 2012)

Medical Corpse... Goodness me... I'd rather not check their budget. Politicians? Haha none here but I'll not work for the govt so I'm clear of all this. XD 25000? A rank 17 doctor gets 40k. And this is the basic pay scale! They get many perks on top of that. I'm not saying that they're getting paid really well or anything and I agree that an honest doctor finds it hard to make ends meet as well. Oh scarcity of doctors isn't because there are too little doctors graduating every year... It's because all of them go to the UK or Saudi Arabia. What do you propose? Put doctors on the ECL?  No matter what you do, these doctors will always look for more.


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## fearless9142 (Sep 4, 2012)

*Gender Equality*

50-50 rule is totally fair , i dont understand why many girls are arguing about it. Why dont they accept that majority of female student sit in home , make _parathas and waste their MBBS degree . _


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## Majh (Apr 1, 2012)

fearless9142 said:


> 50-50 rule is totally fair , i dont understand why many girls are arguing about it. Why dont they accept that majority of female student sit in home , make _parathas and waste their MBBS degree . _


It's because they're right in thinking that if they're smart enough to get a medical seat they should be allowed to do what the heck they want with it once they graduate. It's like the next day I decide that I want people taller than 6' to have a quota imposed on them because they are statistically proven to quit jobs earlier than others. It's totally silly. Medicine has nothing to do with gender and it would be senseless to try to bring gender into it.


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## Fa7ima (Sep 20, 2011)

fearless9142 said:


> 50-50 rule is totally fair , i dont understand why many girls are arguing about it. Why dont they accept that majority of female student sit in home , make _parathas and waste their MBBS degree . _


Yes, true! I agree with you. 50/50 is totally a fair thing.


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## fearless9142 (Sep 4, 2012)

*Selfish Approach*



Majh said:


> It's because they're right in thinking that if they're smart enough to get a medical seat they should be allowed to do what the heck they want with it once they graduate.



So you mean that they must be allowed to waste their degree and just be selfish by keeping their medical knowledge to themselves without benefiting anyone else but themselves .

What i am saying is this , if they are so smart , why they have any problem with the 50 50 rule. Isn't it just????


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## Majh (Apr 1, 2012)

fearless9142 said:


> So you mean that they must be allowed to waste their degree and just be selfish by keeping their medical knowledge to themselves without benefiting anyone else but themselves .


Yes. A doctor's degree is like any other degree. So you think that the doctors who leave medicine to start a business of some sort are also selfish? They aren't bound by the degree. It's like if people with an engineering degree are forever doomed to work as engineers because they can't "just be selfish by keeping their engineering knowledge to themselves without benefiting anyone else but themselves". 



> What i am saying is this , if they are so smart , why they have any problem with the 50 50 rule. Isn't it just????


No. It's not just because you're limiting people on the basis of their gender. It's just like affirmative action. It makes no sense at all.


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## SAMREEN (Oct 3, 2012)

That's like asking whether they should limit the number of boys who take up engineering: absurd and never heard of. So much discrimintation.


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## heartbreak (Jan 31, 2012)

Majh said:


> Yes. A doctor's degree is like any other degree. So you think that the doctors who leave medicine to start a business of some sort are also selfish? They aren't bound by the degree. It's like if people with an engineering degree are forever doomed to work as engineers because they can't "just be selfish by keeping their engineering knowledge to themselves without benefiting anyone else but themselves".
> 
> 
> No. It's not just because you're limiting people on the basis of their gender. It's just like affirmative action. It makes no sense at all.


...If female engineers would sit at home doing nothing after their degree, it would be just as much a problem. But a lot more females are in medicine rather than engineering. And females educating themselves is not a problem, rather it's very good to see the positivity of Pakistani women. However, the government spends so much money on educating you almost for free when you look at other countries like Canada where the minimum is as much as Shifa. It's our moral duty to at least pay it back. If you achieve a degree and do nothing with it, it's a total waste of the degree. There are thousands of others, men and also women who are looking desperately for the degree you got to work and make a living. They are the ones who deserve it, not a person who sits home doing nothing. Btw we were not talking about people who leave medicine for business, we're talking about people who get a degree and do absolutely nothing other than house work.

And although I don't agree with a 50-50, it would not be discriminatory or unfair in any way, because unlike for men, there are so many girls-only medical colleges like Fatima Jinnah, and Khyber to name two major ones. So even with a 50-50, women would still have far more opportunities than men do in this field. Even in engineering, there are no men-only colleges that I know of. And plus, if this happens, it would become more like the west which women rights groups usually aim towards. In Canada, it is a 50-50, and no one is complaining of unfairness because it's not even unjust anyway. It is equality even though I don't agree with it.


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## fearless9142 (Sep 4, 2012)

*Discrimination ??*



SAMREEN said:


> That's like asking whether they should limit the number of boys who take up engineering: absurd and never heard of. So much discrimintation.



The number of boys is also limited to 50 percent just like girls. Don't you get that ?


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## Zaini33 (Jun 4, 2012)

It was narrated on the authority of Abu Hurayrah, _may Allaah be pleased with him_, that the Prophet, _sallallaahu ?alayhi wa sallam_, said:

"A man marries a woman for four reasons: 
for her property, 
for her rank, 
for her beauty, and 
for her religion (and character). 
So marry the one *who is best in the religion and character* and prosper". 
[Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim]

and it is recommended that _*the equality should be preferred*_ (in terms of ethics and character).

So there is your *solution* to the whole problem! But it gives rise to a new one. "Who would follow this teaching?"
If the mothers or families seeking spouses for their sons only prefer what the Prophet has asked people to prefer, such situations wouldn't have arisen on the first place! I know it is a tragedy! Many females get into medicine for having good marriage proposals. And if they don't, they suffer at the hands of society and its pathetic, unfair customs and practices! I've seen quite a large number of such females just waiting and waiting and growing old! This time it is medicine, maybe a time would come when almost every field of studies get dominated by the females! The ONLY solution according to me is the above. That solution is just, fair and full of mercy! 

Wasalam!


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## heartbreak (Jan 31, 2012)

As far as men are concerned, that is the solution...but you see women doing medicine for marriage proposals isn't that much of a problem. As long as they work after a good marriage. The problem is that after getting their medical degrees, and then getting married to good husbands, they lose the motivation to work and serve the country and become housewives. That's not in every case, but it is often the case.

It is wrong of men to marry as they do, but it's not only doctors, there are engineers and any other respectable degrees that they marry. And it's not completely negative, it serves as a motivation for women to then achieve better education. And better educated females means better mothers and that only leads to a better society overall. It's still a bit cruel you have to admit. Yet the problem remains, once you get good education, it is your duty to at least use it by working for at least some time. The fact that they don't work after getting degrees others (men and women alike) are desperate for is the reason why the plan has been put up. I don't agree with limiting female seats (even though that's what all western countries do), I think they should simply get them to serve the country...but as doctors rather than housewives.


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## Hooria Qureshi (Oct 3, 2012)

why is it not possible ??? i mean its a good thing if it is just a rumor but it is true that many of the mbbs girls do not practice because of many reasons .......:?

- - - Updated - - -

Totally agreed.........


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## ms1995 (Aug 20, 2011)

Hooria Qureshi said:


> why is it not possible ??? i mean its a good thing if it is just a rumor but it is true that many of the mbbs girls do not practice because of many reasons .......:?
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Totally agreed.........



Stop fighting. The world is ending in 2013. Enough said


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## Hooria Qureshi (Oct 3, 2012)

hmm :thumbsup:


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## ms1995 (Aug 20, 2011)

Hooria Qureshi said:


> hmm :thumbsup:


Party party party!


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## heartbreak (Jan 31, 2012)

ms1995 said:


> Party party party!


Wow you're pretty excited! Either you hate life and are happy it'll end in 2013 or you got admission somewhere.


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## ms1995 (Aug 20, 2011)

heartbreak said:


> Wow you're pretty excited! Either you hate life and are happy it'll end in 2013 or you got admission somewhere.


Haha, heartbreak don't think too much or you'll start another open ended discussion on life now. but for your information, none of the above!


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## fearless9142 (Sep 4, 2012)

Yes ! now girls should stop wasting their time by arguing about limitation of seats . Work harder now !


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## annie khan (Nov 10, 2012)

This is not fair.There should be equality and all things should be on merit.
If a girl dont work after MBBS degree then mostly,boys get out of Pakistan instead of working in there country.
Boys prefer london,Saudi Arabia to work instead of Pakistan and its rural areas.


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## Zaini33 (Jun 4, 2012)

Girls bad news!

Authorities have approved that 50% seats would be reserved for boys from now onwards in medical! 

Girls, you got a damn tough comepetition coming your way! Soon you'll see this in newspaper. I hope Allah helps you people in this!

Best of luck juniors! may Allah be with you!


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## naqvi (Sep 17, 2012)

hmmm as i think education should be available to all.. government should increase medical colleges and should under some law force private colleges to make their fee low.. we have 51% women and 49% men.. how can we make a 50-50? their should be more seats to accommodate both genders.


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## ali3 (May 26, 2012)

i think just according to my opinion 50-50 is better one , because male are getting lower and lower in this field


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## guria batool (Oct 1, 2012)

Zaini33 said:


> Girls bad news!
> 
> Authorities have approved that 50% seats would be reserved for boys from now onwards in medical!
> 
> ...


is it confirmed.?.what is the source of this news..........??????please tell........in this way girls will be in more difficult situation to get admission!!!!!!!!!


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## red rose (Oct 29, 2011)

If this 50 50 thing happens.... Our medicine field is going to suffer alot because of absence of good doctors.... I am not of the opinion that boys are in any way less than girls.... But actually both... Our boys as well as girls aur equal in mentallity, in availing oppurtunity (in this field ),
Respect and etc. .... I once happened to meet the V.C. Of UHS ( at that time i didnt know that he is vc of uhs lahore) he told us that he is against the rule of equal seats for boys and girls giving a logic that " we will prefer to take more girls of high intectual rather than more boys of lower intectual" ..... If the reason behind this 50 50 thing is girls left this field onwards then they might abolish the rest of 50 percent seats for girls too but where is the gurantee that THESE BOYS ARE NOT GOING TO LEAVE THIS FIELD OR THEIR COUNTRY ONWARDS????


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## schizophrenia (Aug 24, 2012)

2 things: 

Offer more money for doctors to work in rural areas. That will solve some of the problem. 

As for trying to take seats away from people for having two X chromosomes and being smarter...that's pretty sick and disturbed thinking. Um...tell the boys to study harder. They probably won't go to the rural areas either...the boys will just find ways to go abroad


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## heartbreak (Jan 31, 2012)

Well it's not like all boys go abroad or even want to go abroad. Plus girls just go where their husbands go, which can mean they also leave for abroad (and not even work there). I'm against this rule, women should just be forced to work. No point on reducing quality for quantity.

But seriously, even if it is implemented, it's not like against women rights. Girls have far more opportunities in getting admission in medicine even in the case of a 50-50 because of the presence of at least one girls-only medical college per province. So even if it's 50-50 in mixed colleges, more than 50% of students will be female.

And people are ignoring the fact that it can work in girls' favor later on. Suppose in the future, more boys start applying and have enough merit, then this rule will favor to still keep the number of girls half. You can even see as a way to keep give women more opportunity permanently. Plus, this is the exact same rule they have implemented in countries like Canada, and no one's complaining about how this is unfair.


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## fairy queen (Dec 7, 2011)

so now whats the authentic news ???seats are 50-50 for grls n boys confirmed or not???


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## Rija (Jul 23, 2013)

hey, can you plz tell me how many seats are reserved at UHS and King edward for students applying for MBBS with karachi domicile?


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