# trouble for foreigners?



## taimur (Jul 4, 2006)

ok guys! i've been hearing of it alot!

the question is: does the staff and student body of paki med schools try deliberately to make the lives of foreigners more dificult? i need hard facts! with reference to ke cuz thats where ill be going.


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## squid (Jun 19, 2007)

from my own experience you have two options:
1- assimilate; look like them, act like them
2- don't give a damn, you are here to study and don't expect it to be fun......

i went to some crappy academy here and everyone including the teachers picked on me and i hear it's like that at KE too. my advise to you is, don't let it get to you!


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## taimur (Jul 4, 2006)

they wont try to fail me on purpose or anything rite?


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

not as long as you try your best to fit in. The only foreigners that stick out are the ones that walk around with the All-American Pride attitude, refuse to speak in Urdu, and talk crap on Pakistan. Those are the things they look for, so avoid them. 

Also, they assume that since you're a foreigner, you don't study, but if you study from the very beginning you won't have any trouble. Actually, if you study hard right from the start, they won't even really care if you do do all those other things you shouldn't be! 

Impression is everything.


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## taimur (Jul 4, 2006)

thnks bro!


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## Smeer (Jan 29, 2006)

This is sort of a foreigner question.

Is it feasible (without much difficulty) to get high speed internet in Lahore? (Kind of like in America w/cable or dsl, or is it kind of out of the question?)


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Yup, totally possible. The pricing is done off of how much you use it though, instead of how fast it is.

It's still slower than in the US but it's definitely fast enough. Our dsl here in islamabad downloads at 115kb/s


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## squid (Jun 19, 2007)

my experience in lahore the best is worldcall, ive never seen downloads more then 50 but it's overall a lot better. it's a cable modem and if u don't want wireless its pretty simple. 

if u want wireless, im using a linksys router which pretty much covers my whole house. ther is a new company called wateen and you can get a DAP which is like a wireless hotspot.


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## Smeer (Jan 29, 2006)

awesome! Thanks guys. About the rate system tho, at home I'm on A LOT every day, and I know since I'll be at med. school I probably won't be online for nearly as much time, but theoretically assuming that I'm on like 24/7, does the rate come out to a reasonable amount or is it expensive by American standards ($40-50/month) ?


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

In islamabad it's closer to 80 bucks a month.


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## taimur (Jul 4, 2006)

money makes the world go round


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## Rehan (Jan 26, 2006)

Money makes the torrents work #wink


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## Smeer (Jan 29, 2006)

Rehan said:


> Money makes the torrents work #wink


Now you're talkin business bro, cutting right to the chase #laugh


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## taimur (Jul 4, 2006)

if u wana live in the hostels i doubt ull get any connection in ur room..cuz they wont let any kinda wire come into ur room.........so ull have to use that wireless stuff which is as fast as the crummiest broadband u can get.


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

You get can mobilink or ufone unlimited GPRS plans and just connect your cell phone to your computer through a USB cable if your in the hostels and you will have a decent internet connection for surfing, checking emails etc.


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

It's true, I do this myself with a PDA, but via bluetooth instead of a usb cable. Gotta stay connected.


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## taimur (Jul 4, 2006)

or you can get something like VPTCL which is like a wireless landline phone that you can connect to ur computer and its as fast as a 256 kb broadband connection and u can also use it as a normal telephone


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

taimur said:


> or you can get something like VPTCL which is like a wireless landline phone that you can connect to ur computer and its as fast as a 256 kb broadband connection and u can also use it as a normal telephone


I hear it works more like a 115 kbps line and it also depends a lot where you are location wise but ya its also an option


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## Smeer (Jan 29, 2006)

maik7upurz said:


> I hear it works more like a 115 kbps line and it also depends a lot where you are location wise but ya its also an option


Would you guys happen to know the approximate cost per month (or whatever the payment system is) ?


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## ali9686 (Oct 24, 2007)

People at the KE boys hostel have internet. A local internet cafe gives a wireless signal down the road, but a booster is required. The download speed is ok, but kinda pricey due to the monopoly. 

I myself have the world cable modem service. I pay 1500/month for 200kbs, download speed around 25kbs. But they have the deal where u pay 6 months in advance then they double everything. So 40kps is not bad, well it sux in comparison to the 2.3mbs download back home #sad 

Before that i tried the vptcl wireless, a waste of time and it sux. World call wireless was even worse. Never could get a connection. Haven't heard too much about DSL though in Lahore.

Oh yea, any new students that are coming, next year they are planning to Wifi Defence, Lahore. Rumors have it that 1mbs download speed. Not sure about the price though.


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## taimur (Jul 4, 2006)

yeah............the wireless stuff kinda sucks.........hey ali are u a foreigner? 

and does anyone know how im suppose to pay my foreign students fees? $10000
by bank draft, check,etc?


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## ali9686 (Oct 24, 2007)

yea bro, i m from the US. Delaware to be exact. 

Thanks for reminding me about the 10k bro!

You got to make a Bank Draft to the Vice Chancellor of KEMU, i m not sure about the exact wording, but i m planning to get the exact details on Friday, i have my exam that day so afterwards planning to stop by the accounts. 
But i will let u know bro.


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## squid (Jun 19, 2007)

oh yea, my bro works for the company that is deploying the wimax and though we don't live in defence we're lucky just on the edge of one of the antennas. and the thing is totally AWESOME!!!!! right now its 100mbs with downloads upto 140kbs. very cool.

if you have worldcall you can get better connection by being on their VIP list i think they ask for like 6 months advance payment but it's worth it.


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## Smeer (Jan 29, 2006)

Salam guys,



ali9686 said:


> yea bro, i m from the US. Delaware to be exact.
> 
> Thanks for reminding me about the 10k bro!
> 
> ...


Would you happen to know if it's the same procedure for those who need to pay who got in under PTAP? I imagine it would be the same but then again I wanna play it safe -- never wanna take a risk by assuming in Pakistan, lol.

Thanks for all the broadband options guys! I'll look into all of them and see which ones will are available/most feasible in the area of Lahore where I'll be staying.

Ali, do you know the other foreigners @ KE? Maybe you can introduce me and taimur #laugh . Hahah I'm getting kinda nervous as the days are getting closer and closer !


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## squid (Jun 19, 2007)

ali9686 said:


> People at the KE boys hostel have internet. A local internet cafe gives a wireless signal down the road, but a booster is required. The download speed is ok, but kinda pricey due to the monopoly.
> 
> I myself have the world cable modem service. I pay 1500/month for 200kbs, download speed around 25kbs. But they have the deal where u pay 6 months in advance then they double everything. So 40kps is not bad, well it sux in comparison to the 2.3mbs download back home #sad
> 
> ...


oh yea, we don't live in defence we're lucky just on the edge of one of the antennas. and the wifi is totally AWESOME!!!!! right now its 100mbs with downloads upto 140kbs. very cool.

if you have worldcall you can get better connection by being on their VIP list i think they ask for like 6 months advance payment but it's worth it.


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## ali9686 (Oct 24, 2007)

I m not sure about the PTAP prog. bro. All the Americans that i know, including myself, are on the self finance seat. There were 2 kids, a brother and sister, that got on that prog. but it was "shady" how they got in that prog. Anyway they ended up leaving after 1st porf part 1 exams, due to family problems. So i never asked about it.
But, correct me if i m wrong, you just pay the regular local fees right? I think its around rs12,000? (imagine that medical tuition for only $200!! lol.) Not to worry bro, the accounting office will give you a "bank challan form" basically a bill with the details of that year on it. Got to go to Bank in Nila Gumbad and pay your fees there. The bill itself has three portions, which the bank keeps two and you keep one for your own. When it comes to financial matters KE people are pretty legit.
But a word of caution, when ever paying anything in Pakistan, always get a receipt with a signature and a date. Never know what will happen as long as you got the proof you can avoid alot of headaches.
Depends on when you guys come start. Can introduce to the Second yr guys, but most of them are Canadians, not sure though. There are 3 Americans in 3rd year and a Brit. My year we got 2 (we were 7 but they either dropped out or failed out). and in final year there are 3 Americans. .
Right now our professional exams are starting so school is pretty much dead, every one is studying their asses of.


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## Smeer (Jan 29, 2006)

ali9686 said:


> But, correct me if i m wrong, you just pay the regular local fees right? I think its around rs12,000? (imagine that medical tuition for only $200!! lol.)


Hahah, yea that's right. The EAD people said it would be $200/year (if the conversion rate is still Rs. 60/$1, then I think you're right it should be Rs. 12,000) .

Awesome, thanks so much Ali ! (btw is that your real name, or just your MedStudentz alias? If you don't wanna reveal your name on medstudentz, no wrries, I won't bug you about it haha!)

If you do get anymore info. as to the exact date classes start, that would be awesome.

I'm going to be coming to Pak. around the 15th or so, right after I finish my semester finals here. I'm really looking forward to meeting you, taimur, and the rest of the foreigners @ KE  , especially since you all have already been through what I'll be going through.

Good luck on your Profs! Hope you're studying hard #laugh


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## taimur (Jul 4, 2006)

hey ali bro!
im gona live in the hostel and am wondering whether ur in it too..if u are can u describe some of the aspects of living in KE's hostels..........theyve told me foreigners get the best hostels and ive cheked them out...they exceeded my expectations....

so do we have to share a room with someone or something like that?
thanks and good luk on ur exams

im excited and still freekin out a bit but it relieves me that i would at least no someone there .........like you and smeer


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## ali9686 (Oct 24, 2007)

i have my own house that i live in, actually its my parents "retirement" house! lol, I m planning to get a room in final year because we will have emergency duty and gyne duty at night. Rather than going all the way home and coming back at odd hours. Its better to crash in the hostel.
The hostel rooms them selves are not that bad once u get some paint and nice carpet in it. But the main issue i have with the hostel are the bathrooms. For a lack of a better phrase "them are some nasty bathrooms!" 
the smell is horrible and the toilets are even more disgusting. I m still in shock when u said that the hostel "exceeded" you expectations. Damn bro, u must have had some really really really really low expectations! lol 
Hey look on the bright side, it gets really boring in the hostel, and that is perfect for studying! lol


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## sparky (Oct 27, 2007)

hello there. im going to army medical college in rawalpindi and i heard that they end up kicking out 80% of foreign students there. how hard could it be? i just want to be prepared for what theyre gonna throw at me?? anybody got some advice??


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

It's true that a lot of foreigners fail (I don't think anywhere near 80% though) at a lot of different colleges, not just AMC. Usually though this is because those foreigners refuse to blend in, refuse to study, and are content to pretend that being from somewhere other than pakistan makes them better somehow. In the end, it's the scores that count.

They might expect you to do poorly when you get there, because unfortunately they'll have those low expectations for all foreigners. Take the first test/quiz or class study session seriously and show the teachers that you mean business, and their impression will change immediately. Teachers are always eager to figure out who's who in the new class, and that first impression lasts the longest, so make it a good one.


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## MedGrunt (Feb 21, 2007)

sparky said:


> hello there. im going to army medical college in rawalpindi and i heard that they end up kicking out 80% of foreign students there. how hard could it be? i just want to be prepared for what theyre gonna throw at me?? anybody got some advice??


If you work really hard at the beginning and establish the so called "good repute" it will definitely help you throughout the year. The first impression is crucial! Once they realize that you're a serious student the teachers will do their best to help you even when you don't perform to the best of your ability. If you study hard and try to stay near the top of your class the teachers really won't have much reason to dislike you.

Often foreign students come in with the idea that med school in Pakistan is a joke and will be really easy so they slack off until they find themselves near the bottom of the class. When you place yourself in this position the teachers won't be very willing to cut you any slack.

Hopefully if you try your best to fit in and don't create any issues with faculty members you won't run in to any big issues. There will most likely be many times when you'll disagree with college policies/teachers but in the long run it's better to just stay within the rules and on everyone's good side since so much of the grading is subjective.


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## sparky (Oct 27, 2007)

thankyou guys for taking the time to write a detailed response, im greatful. it makes sense and i will definitely benefit from your advice. good luck with your studies.


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## taimur (Jul 4, 2006)

wait a sec! do u mean that there is unflushed stuff in the toilets?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

For the last time, no.


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## taimur (Jul 4, 2006)

hey! i herd from maik7upurz that the profs bribe u ( the foreigners that is)??????????????? or at least try to..........they dont hate u or anythign rite?..........at govt coleges


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Never heard of that myself. Maik7upurz has a tendency to take rare occurrences and turn it into the norm. No one will try to bribe you, and if they do, then please come back to post here and prove me wrong.#happy

Pakistan is *not* as backwards as some people here would make it seem.


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

The professors dont bribe you, you have to bribe them in the form of taking tuition. TRUST ME, its not a rare occurance, many teachers in govt colleges on finding you to be a foreigner will offer you tuition at extraordinary high rates. Its up to you whether or not to take them, but beware, if you take them you will NOT be able to stop as it looks very very bad. The plus point is they will never fail you in a viva if you took tuition from them, bad thing is if you start and dont like it your stuck in it because its an insult to stop taking it.

And Pakistan is actually more backwards in certain areas then people assume. I personally know of some students buying teachers fridgerators and tv's!!!!


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## MedGrunt (Feb 21, 2007)

maik7upurz said:


> The professors dont bribe you, you have to bribe them in the form of taking tuition. TRUST ME, its not a rare occurance, many teachers in govt colleges on finding you to be a foreigner will offer you tuition at extraordinary high rates. Its up to you whether or not to take them, but beware, if you take them you will NOT be able to stop as it looks very very bad. The plus point is they will never fail you in a viva if you took tuition from them, bad thing is if you start and dont like it your stuck in it because its an insult to stop taking it.


Hmm...rather than spending time macking on the teachers, just study! The chances of teachers giving you trouble when you just keep a low profile and study hard is pretty slim. If you're already studying like a fiend and getting good scores on everything you won't need to be tutored.

surrrrre i guess if they're *really* desperate they could try to sabotage your scores, so that in an act of despair you might want to be tutored even though you already know all of the information...I really hope that sounds just as silly as it did in my head. Seriously though, it's not that hard to pick up a book---it's much lighter than a fridge. Act smartly from the beginning and it'll go a long way.



maik7upurz said:


> I personally know of some students buying teachers fridgerators and tv's!!!!


Willing to bet that "some students" are stupid. But it's a good thing, every class needs a couple of stupid people...


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

Yes if you keep a low profile and blend in you will be ok. You will get the occasional people offering tuition. I'm not talking about NEEDING tuition at all, its just some people in some colleges offer it and just to beware of it.


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## taimur (Jul 4, 2006)

im pretty sure i can handle the studies on my own................and im working on my paki accent if the prof's choose me to answer a question in class, so no one thinks im a foreigner...........

so i guess the only thing i need to do is study and pass all my exams...........thanks for the input!!!!!!!!!!!! #happy


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## squid (Jun 19, 2007)

the accent will come to subconsciously if you listen to the lecture very carefully and repeat every word in ur head.


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

Yah, after a few months in a govt medical college, when i called my friends back in usa they couldnt understand me!


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## Smeer (Jan 29, 2006)

maik7upurz said:


> Yah, after a few months in a govt medical college, when i called my friends back in usa they couldnt understand me!


hahaha come on man, don't scare us like that !#angry


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

Its true, you will eventually find your self talking like that indian dude in short circuit, the robot movie!


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## Smeer (Jan 29, 2006)

maik7upurz said:


> Its true, you will eventually find your self talking like that indian dude in short circuit, the robot movie!


hahaha o man i loved that guy!!! good timesssssssss, and i'll choose to believe that my English won't change _that_ much #wink


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

I don't know what you guys are talking about, since foreigners *don't *have to change their accents to try and sneak by... You guys are really getting the wrong idea here.


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## Indecisive (Oct 24, 2007)

taimur said:


> ok guys! i've been hearing of it alot!
> 
> the question is: does the staff and student body of paki med schools try deliberately to make the lives of foreigners more dificult? i need hard facts! with reference to ke cuz thats where ill be going.


its so heard of and 3 of my cousins scared me out about their experiences at KE ... so there is definetly a level of plausibility to this...

my cousins told me professors hated when foriegners answer in their English accents and act like know-it-alls. 

one of em didnt exactly know much urdu and so she had A LOT of trouble with other students at KE ...
she wasnt deliberatly showing off but the idiots there always hated on her.. 

my own aunt told me while she was studying at KE, all of the students would talk about, harrass, ostracize the foreigners...she herself said that she felt so irritated by their presence and would do the same....

they need someone to pick on at school ... so they go 4 the foreigners #sad 

personally, i think this kinda trouble is alittle more common for the GIRLS ... girls can be real @#$^!* #growl and their cleverness really torments u in a subtle way .. guys on the other hand, don't really give a crap soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

i dont think it'll b too bad 4 ya taimur .


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

Yap its totally true. Mastahriz attends a "prestigious private college" where most of the students are of a better economic level as well as the "teachers". In the government sector, the teachers are all doctors who never made anything of themselves and they seriously have a bias, but its always going back to the root of the Pakistani mentality of "your doing economically better then me in life, its not fair and you should give me something for nothing or ill hate you".

Its true that when a foreigner in a govt college goes to the front of the class or asks a question or talks in any open public setting in the school all the other students become pin drop silent as if you some kind of alien. A lot of times teachers will tell you to talk slower and eventually you will naturally adjust your english to a tone and speed in which the teachers understand.

There will be some classes where teachers just pick on foreigners to ask questions from and after you answer it wrong they will then pick on you a bit and say oh foreigner sahib, where are you from! And say something like "in so and so, dont the people study there!"

Haha I dont know why any of you think I'm making this shit up when I am the most reliable source here, its not a scare tactic at all. If Mastahriz would like a tour of a government college or to spend a day I would more then gladly help him that regard so that he may be satisfied =)


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## squid (Jun 19, 2007)

maik7upurz said:


> Yap its totally true. Mastahriz attends a "prestigious private college" where most of the students are of a better economic level as well as the "teachers". In the government sector, the teachers are all doctors who never made anything of themselves and they seriously have a bias, but its always going back to the root of the Pakistani mentality of "your doing economically better then me in life, its not fair and you should give me something for nothing or ill hate you".


about the economic disparity it's totally ur opinion and you are entitled to it. i grew up here and i don't think the bias is due to ur dad is richer than mine.



maik7upurz said:


> Its true that when a foreigner in a govt college goes to the front of the class or asks a question or talks in any open public setting in the school all the other students become pin drop silent as if you some kind of alien. A lot of times teachers will tell you to talk slower and eventually you will naturally adjust your english to a tone and speed in which the teachers understand.


yeah this has happened to me, after a while you'll find it amusing.



maik7upurz said:


> There will be some classes where teachers just pick on foreigners to ask questions from and after you answer it wrong they will then pick on you a bit and say oh foreigner sahib, where are you from! And say something like "in so and so, dont the people study there!"


yup this happened to me too, "engineer sahiba you tell the answer to this" but then the teachers also make fun of the regular students and they think they are getting attention. the more fuss you make the more the teacher will come after you. when they figure out they can't provoke you they'll let you be.



maik7upurz said:


> Haha I dont know why any of you think I'm making this shit up when I am the most reliable source here, its not a scare tactic at all. If Mastahriz would like a tour of a government college or to spend a day I would more then gladly help him that regard so that he may be satisfied =)


there is no doubt you are a reliable source and it is also true shifa and aku are completely different from govt colleges but it is not necessary that everyone will have the same experiences as yours. all foreigners should know what generally pakistani ppl think about them:

they are rich, spoilt brats who think pakistanis are underdeveloped animals. they think they can buy us with their dollars. they have no respect for culture and social values and definitely don't know how to behave in a classroom and how to respect a teacher.

i say prove them wrong!


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Maik7upurz,

A lot of what you're saying is true, but the way you present things makes it sound as if it's impossible for anyone to ever like a foreigner or treat them as fairly as if they were a local student.

That's the part that's *completely wrong*, and is only retracting from your reliability. Anyone who maintains that position has most likely brought it upon themselves.

It is true that professors and colleagues will have their assumptions about you, but it's your job to change how they see you, and that's just the price you pay of going to medical school out there, and it's a small one at that. All you have to realize, is that it *is possible to change their opinions.*

Private or government school, won't make a difference to how foreigners get treated. Of course I've been singled out, I've had a hundred people point and laugh at me while I stand on a stage. Every teacher I've had so far in four years has given me a funny look when I speak English, whether they're from a private school or a government school.

In the end though, I've never had a teacher dislike me, and it's not some magic trick that I hide up my sleeve. If you can't laugh at yourself, and get people to laugh with you instead, then yeah, of course they'll treat you like an alien. This is something universal guys, not something unique to government medical schools in Pakistan. The most successful people in life are the ones that have the ability to laugh at themselves. President Clinton, politicians, actors, comedians, even athletes, etc.

There are of course other foreigners at private schools, and government schools as well, who are strongly disliked by their teachers, but only for the reasons that Squid pointed out.

That being said, I agree with Squid. It really is just a matter of attitude and perspective.

*Your view of the people around you will dictate how they treat you.* *That's a fact.*

You may have to work for it a little bit like Squid says, but in the end you will be treated just as fairly as anyone else. So what if you have to laugh at yourself here and there? If you can't handle someone poking a little fun at you then you're going to have much tougher times in life than medical school.

Come to medical school with an attitude and assumptions like maik7upurz is telling you to have and you'll be treated accordingly, i.e. like him.

Seriously, stop saying that *they* are the problem. Even if they were, what's your solution? You don't have one, other than foreigners stick together, never associate with anyone, fake an accent... yeah... and then wonder why they treat you the way they do and blame it on them not having money.

This is getting old, and tiresome. I think that's really all the discussion that this topic needs. We're not here to discuss views on the Pakistani population and the workings of their individual societies.

If anyone has a question related to some *actual* difficulty that a foreigner may experience, then please post it below.

Thanks.


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## maik7upurz (Feb 28, 2006)

Its nothing to argue about just the "ground realities" as our "honorable President" likes to put it. If you go to Russia you will undergo certain problems, or Europe. Its just the same here, not trying to scare anyone just to prepare them for it. I know it does seem scary or bad its not I mean they are all human beings as well.

Basically put. If you are very accustomed to Pakistani people and have lived here before you wont find it that bad.

If you are a total foreigner coming to a government medical college, you WILL BE in shell shock. First at the facilities, then the people, then the classes, then the exams. I say it will take you 6 months to get over this but after that you should be quite comfortable.

And to set the record straight, the economic disparity does come into play. Many teachers will ask you occasionally to help them figure out a way to go abroad etc. If they see you coming to school in a nice car they will automatically form some opinions about you. Many local Pakistanis are also shell shocked after coming to a government institution like this.

But its not something to pull your hair out over, eventually you will make good friends and have a lot of fun and forget about how crappy everything else is. One thing is for sure, after reading this thread and be much more prepared for what you are about to encounter and will be able to deal with it better. As for Mastahriz, my offer to give him a crash course in government medical school is always open #laugh


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## taimur (Jul 4, 2006)

is there stuff in the toilets at the hostels?

i asked this question many times a while back...........and the answer was always in the negative

ive spent a week at ke hostel and beleive me there is stuff in the toilets.......
ill post pics if u want........


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## MedGrunt (Feb 21, 2007)

Sometimes less is more. Thanks.


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## Fatima (Dec 26, 2007)

taimur said:


> ive spent a week at ke hostel and beleive me there is stuff in the toilets.......
> ill post pics if u want........


ewwwwwwwwwwww


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## himagowri (Mar 19, 2008)

dont wrry


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## taimur (Jul 4, 2006)

himagowri said:


> dont wrry


bout wut?

bout the fact that i just finished my stinkin anatomy stage and the stinkin physio guys post three friggin pretests in one week.......


ahggggggggggggggggggg
ahhhhhhh

aghhhhhhhhhhhhh
ahhhhhhhhhhhh


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## gkhanum (Nov 4, 2007)

wow guys thanks for all this heads up about how foreigners get treated in pak.. really helpful.. thanks for taking the time to write so much!


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## taimur (Jul 4, 2006)

IMPORTANT NOTICE ON PAK GOVT COLLEGES.....

yea so uve been hearing alota stuff on how they treat foreigners badly and how they fail you....

1. I goto to KE, the governmentiest of the government colleges out there and no one has discriminated against me.
2. I passed in more tests than many of the other kids here
3. IN current 2nd year there are a bunch of foreigners, (American, canadians,UK, etc) and they all passed first year WITHOUT supllee except for one kid i think

every year competition rises and this ensures the best kids are selected and so the time has come when foreigners are on par with pak kids in the art of giving pak papers.....(basically markers and the whole crap)

booyeah!


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