# Confused about Paki Med School Admissions, HELP?



## HMed (Sep 17, 2010)

Hello =) I'm posting for the first time and really hoping to get some helpful replies. I'm a senior in high school and a foreign student.
Okay so I'll be applying to government med schools in NWFP in Paki but Im unsure about some parts of the whole admissions thing.

In the main Pakistan Medical Colleges thread that Rehan posted, it said that at least ONE year of each of the sciences in your FOUR years of High School are required to be eligible for applying. However on the HCE website it's stated that you need all three sciences in your Higher Secondary School Education (11th grade, 12th grade). So basically that means that if I only took Physics in Olevels but not in IB (similar to Alevels), then I'm not eligible right?
If that's the case, as a student living outside Paki, could I study the FSC Physics on my own and then take the exam later this year so I can be considered eligible?
Also, the applications require "all educational documents" so I plan to turn in my HS diploma, IGCSE certificate, and my IB diploma (like Alevels certificate), but I was wondering to I need to turn in my high school transcripts? And do the grades on them matter? Because, I practically failed most of my HS classes, but did well on the International exams (IGCSE and hopefully IB). And anyway, Khyber Medical College and the other branches accept you based on your International high school exams (IB, Olevels), your entry test (or you can do SAT II instead) and that's it I think. Ofcourse, the High School international exams have to be converted by IBCC first (Which how do they do that btw? Is there a conversion formula?? Links to the website are not working for me).

One more question, apparently it's easier for foreign students to get accepted into governmen med schools than for locals, but HOW? Only 9 seats are available for the colleges I want to get into!)

Thank You! HELP would really be appreciated #yes


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## mubashir888 (Aug 12, 2010)

HMed said:


> One more question, apparently it's easier for foreign students to get accepted into government med schools than for locals, but HOW? Only 9 seats are available for the colleges I want to get into!)
> 
> Thank You! HELP would really be appreciated #yes


The reason is that the Competition among locals is even more fierce and Like 32k Students apply for 2k seats almost.
So Average marks you need are 950+(for Punjab).
Merit in NWFP(khyber Pakhtun-a-khuawan actually:S) is low as compared to punjab but still a foreigner doesn't stand a chance unless he scored Amazingly.
But on Self financed foreign seats only Foreigners apply having lower marks.So you can get in with marks around 850 in Punjab.But competition is also increasing on foreign seats as more and more people are applying each year.

And well about the conversion formula;
They chop off like 20% from British high school and 10% from American system.
search the forum and you will surely find the answer to your question.
And About doing physics:
No you can't do only physics in Fsc system.
You have to do whole fsc again if you want to do that.

and About Rest of the question;
I am sure they have already been answered,just take some time and read the previous threads or use the Search button.
Good luck.:happy:


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## 4003 (Aug 12, 2008)

For the American system, I'm pretty sure they deduct 20%, from what I heard from my fellow American classmates. And for the IBBC conversion, they don't always deduct 20%, it all depends on the formula. For example a 78% would be a 60% when converted. At time it may be at your advantage and at times at your disadvantage, depending on your mark.

From what I read, internal exams are deducted by 20% (meaning an exam specified for the specific school).
20% are deducted by external exams (meaning kind of like the same board exam for all schools)

I think for punjab medical schools they require 65% minimum.

Is IB equivalent to A-levels? I didn't know that.

Highschool transcripts would matter, along with the diploma.


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## mubashir888 (Aug 12, 2010)

@^The minimum equivalence for Punjab has also been reduced to 60% (660marks).


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## livin_ib (Mar 27, 2009)

HMed said:


> Hello =) I'm posting for the first time and really hoping to get some helpful replies. I'm a senior in high school and a foreign student.
> Okay so I'll be applying to government med schools in NWFP in Paki but Im unsure about some parts of the whole admissions thing.
> 
> In the main Pakistan Medical Colleges thread that Rehan posted, it said that at least ONE year of each of the sciences in your FOUR years of High School are required to be eligible for applying. However on the HCE website it's stated that you need all three sciences in your Higher Secondary School Education (11th grade, 12th grade). So basically that means that if I only took Physics in Olevels but not in IB (similar to Alevels), then I'm not eligible right?
> ...



Hi HMed. I did the IB Diploma Programme myself, and I've done a shitload of research on this, so here goes.

1) You do need to have all three sciences to be eligible in government colleges. Private universities such as AKU and Shifa have begun to accept Math in lieu of Physics for overseas students. I myself knew this before I did the IB Diploma, so my IB Coordinator had to write to the IBO Board in order to grant me permission to take 3 sciences in IB. (You probably know this isn't usually allowed. They make an exception for Pakistani/Indian students.)

2)" [FONT=&quot]If that's the case, as a student living outside Paki, could I study the FSC Physics on my own and then take the exam later this year so I can be considered eligible?[/FONT]" I'm not sure about this part of your question. I don't think, though, that you can sit just one subject for the FSC course, it's not like A levels. 

3) " [FONT=&quot]Also, the applications require "all educational documents" so I plan to turn in my HS diploma, IGCSE certificate, and my IB diploma (like Alevels certificate), but I was wondering to I need to turn in my high school transcripts?"[/FONT] No, you don't.

4)If you've done IB, they will SCREW YOU OVER in your equivalence. I just got mine. I got 36 points, which isn't great, and I didn't study well at all, but it's respectable (Oxford and Cambridge will accept you at 38), and I got an equivalence of 70%. A person who has grades B, B, C at A levels would get a higher equivalence than this. (72%) BUT, DON'T shun the IBCC, they are the omniscient, and we should hail to their exemplary system.

If you tell me your IB score or your expected score I could work out the equivalence for you. It's too long to explain here. 

5) " [FONT=&quot]One more question, apparently it's easier for foreign students to get accepted into governmen med schools than for locals, but HOW? Only 9 seats are available for the colleges I want to get into!)" 
[/FONT]Who the fu** said that to you? That's bull. They favour locals. 
[FONT=&quot] 
Sure this post wasn't exactly what you wanted to hear, but hope it helped. 

[/FONT]


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## mubashir888 (Aug 12, 2010)

livin_ib said:


> 5) " [FONT=&quot]One more question, apparently it's easier for foreign students to get accepted into governmen med schools than for locals, but HOW? Only 9 seats are available for the colleges I want to get into!)"
> [/FONT]Who the fu** said that to you? That's bull. They favour locals.
> [FONT=&quot]
> 
> [/FONT]


With due respect,i have to disagree.
No one favour locals;you foreign guys can't even understand the level of competition here.
i have seen guys scoring like 980s in fsc and Still not being able to get admission,whereas foreigners don't have to give an entry test,and they can get in with mediocre marks like 800+ or something.
You only compete among yourselves and a good student(with Straight A's etc) can easily get in.
Like Last year,8k student were 900+ and and 6k of them were not able to get in into any Government school.
And further more there were 550+ students having 950+ marks and Still not being able to get in.
You can imagine the competition.


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## ramo91 (Mar 10, 2009)

@ HMed ... u cant give Fsc physics without appearing for all the Fsc papers.... wat u could do is give only A'level physics and get that included in equivalence ... should work fine .. very good stand in for Fsc physics, but contact IBCC first and make sure they would accept a combination of A'levels and IB to make up the 3 sciences... thats the only dillema I see ....

^@ livin_ib.... competition for locals is always tougher in govt colleges, the ratio of applicants to seats is always greater for locals despite the lower number of seats for foreigners, Pakistan has the 6th largest population with a very limited number of seats in cheap govt medical colleges .. if you dont belive what ppl are saying here just call and ask the admissions ppl yourself .. I've applied to Dow, their are 12000-13000 applicants for about 250-300 seats... about 97.5% of applicants will be rejected#grin


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## livin_ib (Mar 27, 2009)

mubashir888 said:


> i have seen guys scoring like 980s in fsc and Still not being able to get admission,whereas foreigners don't have to give an entry test,and they can get in with mediocre marks like 800+ or something.


 1) Again, WHO tells you this? First of all, foreigners do have to sit ALL entry tests, unless they are applying on the basis of SAT II in all 3 sciences, which is no ride in the park. It’s probably even tougher than preparing for and taking the entry test. 
2) Secondly, I don’t know where you’ve heard that foreigners can get admission on, agreed, “mediocre” marks like 800+, but even if this is true, it’s probably because the smart/private medical colleges realize how much the IBCC penalize foreign qualifications with deductions of 10 and 20%. 




mubashir888 said:


> You only compete among yourselves and a good student(with Straight A's etc) can easily get in.


 Who says we only have to compete amongst ourselves? Until last year, PMC had one test for all candidates. And even then, the test last year was comprised 40% - 50% of FSC material.

In Nust, AKU, Shifa, Dow, Riphah, FUMC, WHATEVER, we have to sit the same entry test as everyone else! How does that show that we only compete amongst ourselves? Yes, there is a “quota” for foreign students, like 2 seats per college, but as far as I am aware the merit list is not calculated separately for students with foreign qualifications. Wouldn't that be correct?

Lol and sorry if that sounded slightly hostile, but I’m sure you can understand my point. 

P.S. Did you do any research on how many foreign students applied and how many of those got into govt colleges last year? That may be interesting to know. 

:happy:


@ramo91. I agree with you, I just don’t agree with mubashir888’s take on how easy he seems to think it is for foreign students.


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## mubashir888 (Aug 12, 2010)

@^
1-I know all this data because i went to a coaching institution called Kips.
The Largest institution for the preparation of entry tests in Punjab.
They gathered that data.And shared it with us during their orientation seminar.
And I personally know a friend of mine having marks 985 and was not being able to get into any government school.

and if your SAT II tests are that DIFFICULT then why you foreigners are not being able to perform well in our relatively easier Entry tests?
Now please don't start saying that its because the tests are from fsc Course.
I gave NUST test this time and believe me there were so many things that were asked and were not present in our FSC course.(i can cite some Examples as well if you want)
The admissions to some institutes like AKU,Nust depends almost entirely on your Entry test performance.

2-And yes you can easily get into some private college with equivalence as low as 770 not because they realize the latent qualities of foreigners BUT 
Because all they care is money.(there are some good private schools too but mostly private college only care about money)

And why you want separate tests in institutions where your admission almost entirely depends upon Entry test performance.
Like for 45 open merit seats in Nust around 16k students applied
Whereas for 20 foreign seats 49 applied only(on SAT basis).


And believe me that 4 seats quota per college is more than enough Considering the number of local applicants,especially in govt. colleges.

I don't have that Data and i guess its not published as well.
All i know is that out of 18k local applicants last year 500 of them were having non Fsc or foreign Qualification.

Sorry if i offended you or anyone because that was not my intention#happy


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## HMed (Sep 17, 2010)

Wow, thanks guys! I didn't actually expect real information after that whole essay I wrote :/ lol
Mubashir888 and livin_ib, about the cometition for locals and foreigners, I guess you're both right. I mean yeah there are very limited spaces for foreigners but then the number of foreigners that apply although a lot are nothing compared to the number of locals that apply.. In the end, the ratio of applicants to the available seats is pretty much similar, I assume.. Oh and there's also that gay deduction thing that IBCC does for foreigners, and also many colleges now also give foreigners an option to take the SAT II instead of the test, and so then we'd only be competing with SAT II takers.. I'm not actually very sure abt that, someone clarify?

Livin_ib, finally someone who took IB! God, wtf are you serious 36 is just 70%? (36 is awesome btw) IB considers 30 and anything above as an A, and CAMBRIDGE and OXFORD require 38, but these government schools don't see 36 as good?? God wth they should actually add points to our grades to make it fair for us (IB compared to FSC? Seriously).
My predicted is like a 38-39, that it's including bonus points though.. But I think IBCC is also gona count my Olevel results in my equivalence certificate (do you know if they'll count just the sciences or everything?)
Well livin_ib it wasnt just that IB qoukdnt allow 3 sciences but the fact that i has NO SPACE in my schedule to fit in Physics, not last year nor this year. Oh and my dad was in Peshawar and he talked to the director of admissions of Khyber Medical University about the whole getting acceptance without Physics in my junior and senior years, so guess what? He said it wouldn't be a problem as ling as I had math to replace it.. :/ Here's the thing man, Paki school admissions depend mostly on the moods of the admissions people involved and the guys in the IBCC. Seriously, I hear all these crazy things about admissions without Physics. But I told my dad to contact IBCC about this, cause they're the ones who'll be dealing with my subjects and equivalence.
Hey liven_ib, did you get into med school though with those IB grades?

WasayKhan, well IB is equivalent to Alevels in terms of the level of education, they're both for the two final years of High School, BUT other than that, IB is so much mote complex and covers so many more learning areas than Alevels (besides academics, extracurriculars, research skills, volunteer work, etc) It's a pretty intense program (notice it's a whole PROGRAM). 

Thanks so much peeps =)


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## livin_ib (Mar 27, 2009)

(First, I hope kips didn?t tell you that foreigners don?t have to take any entry tests, because that clearly means that didn?t do enough research.)
 Yes SAT II is that ?DIFFICULT.? Please go look up the syllabus for each SAT II subject and the technique of the test to understand. Secondly, I never said that "us foreigners? gave SAT II and got excellent scores at it, so your question about why we can?t handle the ?relatively easier? entry test is?quite pointless. 
And yes, ofcourse it is because it consists of the fsc course, and fsc is entirely different from IB or A levels. (NUST is just one example. Think of PMC, Dow, Bahria, FUMC, Riphah, the list is endless.)




mubashir888 said:


> @^
> -And yes you can easily get into some private college with equivalence as low as 770 not because they realize the latent qualities of foreigners BUT
> Because all they care is money.(there are some good private schools too but mostly private college only care about money)


Well you may have a point, but I know 2 girls who were accepted into Aga Khan with an equivalence of +_800. You can?t say AKU accepted them because they only cared about the money; they have lots of applicants willing to pay. 



mubashir888 said:


> The admissions to some institutes like AKU,Nust depends almost entirely on your Entry test performance.
> 
> And why you want separate tests in institutions where your admission almost entirely depends upon Entry test performance.


 ??because then, like you said before, we would be competing amongst ourselves, and wouldn?t have to cram 75 chatpers of the fsc course in the 2months we have after finishing our exams and taking these tests. 

Unless i?m really wrong, I?m pretty sure this time there were only 2 seats in NUST for international SAT students. 

And since you seem to trust kips as a reliable source, at kips they told us that all these ?quotas?are fake. If the college thinks that someone who has taken fsc has better merit, or in the teacher?s words, agar koi ?fsc ka laadla hai? then the college will accept them over us any day, despite the so called quotas. It?s not like the quota seats are ?reserved,? they?re just there. This, along with my other points, is what I meant when I said ?they favour locals.? 

Anw, my reply to HMed was mainly just that ? a response to help him/her out. I didn?t mean to spark the age old ?fsc behtar hai nai A levels behtar hai? debate. And to your objection of my post, I?ve made my few points as well, which you have to agree are valid. I hope we can let this topic go.


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## livin_ib (Mar 27, 2009)

@HMed. They make a seperate certificate for IGCSE and IB. 5 Subjects will be inclued - 3 sciences, english, and one best one. 

Personally, I didn?t pass the PMC test, so that closed a lot of options. (I mostly screwed up bio ? A level/fsc bio and IB bio are very different.) People who did A levels said bio was easy. In Shifa I got a reasonable percentage, and I?ve sent my remarkable equivalence in, so we?ll see how that works out. (Keep in mind that Shifa requires 32 as a min for IB, so they will probably take my IB score into account as well, not just the equivalence.) Riphah and FUMC tests still remain to be taken.

I'll need to know grades for individual subjects to work your eq out. btw, my predicted was 38 too, so just to be safe give me a total of 36 in individual subjects. 

yeah, I told you, IBBC knows BEST, ok? 36 is 70% despite the fact that at 38 top universities would accept you.


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## ramo91 (Mar 10, 2009)

livin_ib said:


> (First, I hope kips didn?t tell you that foreigners don?t have to take any entry tests, because that clearly means that didn?t do enough research.)
> Yes SAT II is that ?DIFFICULT.? Please go look up the syllabus for each SAT II subject and the technique of the test to understand. Secondly, I never said that "us foreigners? gave SAT II and got excellent scores at it, so your question about why we can?t handle the ?relatively easier? entry test is?quite pointless.
> And yes, ofcourse it is because it consists of the fsc course, and fsc is entirely different from IB or A levels. (NUST is just one example. Think of PMC, Dow, Bahria, FUMC, Riphah, the list is endless.)........
> 
> ...


1st of all you are really wrong,their are 28 seats reserved for overseas pakistanis and 16 for foreigners in Dow not "like 2" as u stated in an earlier post and im sure other govt unis have a good number aswell... dont knw about "international SAT students" but NUST accepts SAT2 scores even from locals in place of the admissions test if students perfer... so am pretty damn sure they wont give issues to foreigners and they im sure have more than 2 reserved seats, they have like 2000 seats or something in total,maybe more....

2ndly SAT2 is wayy easier than giving admission tests... i mean seriously its a piece of cake compared, I got 2170 in them, i know(and i gave them in As'level, NOT at the end of A lvl so hadnt even covered all the topics).., and most govt colleges, if not all accept SAT2 scores (your wayy off when naming Dow in that list of compulsory entrance test)... and many private colleges also accept SAT2 but yeah many also require u to giv the admission test..

^ in private unis eg. shifa, AKU thers open merit and neither locals nor foreigners have an advantage over the other (though possibly some advantage to foreigners in some private unis who just want to earn money) ..... 

if someone got into AKU with low scores doesnt mean anything .. maybe IBCC messed his/her scores up (unis know IBCC is wack and calculate ther own merit)

In govt colleges foreigners have the advantage of using SAT2 scores + competition is wayy lower trust me its alot easier... Im a dual national so can apply to both foreign and local seats, I would get in Dow easily on a reserved seat paying a ton of money, but Im pretty smart so am studying for the admission test... believe me cramming entire Fsc/interscience in this limited time is a nightmare  .... its wayy tougher applying as a local... competition is crazy and im sorry but mediocre students who wouldnt stand a chance in open merit sometimes do get admission on foreign seats.... getting 2300/2200+ in sat2 is no big deal compared to what locals have to go through.... and i doubt the competition in unis will cross 2300 for foreigners often anyways...


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## mubashir888 (Aug 12, 2010)

livin_ib said:


> (First, I hope kips didn?t tell you that foreigners don?t have to take any entry tests, because that clearly means that didn?t do enough research.)
> Yes SAT II is that ?DIFFICULT.? Please go look up the syllabus for each SAT II subject and the technique of the test to understand. Secondly, I never said that "us foreigners? gave SAT II and got excellent scores at it, so your question about why we can?t handle the ?relatively easier? entry test is?quite pointless.
> And yes, ofcourse it is because it consists of the fsc course, and fsc is entirely different from IB or A levels. (NUST is just one example. Think of PMC, Dow, Bahria, FUMC, Riphah, the list is endless.)
> 
> ...



If you read my post i clearly indicated that THAT EXCEPT some schools.AKu is one of them.The 2 girls who got selected were not because they were foreigners but because they deserved it.Aku Look at other Extra curricular activities also etc

And about FSC ,well that's how we do intermediate here,and it completely suits our Medical school's teaching style as well.So when you want to get into Paki medical schools you must be tested on Paki standards(thats my opinion BTW)

and i think you are wrong about that SAT International seats in NUST ...
There were 20 of them and a guy here on this forum has 19th merit on SAT international seat and was SELECTED for Mbbs.


And this along with my other my Points meant that no one Favour locals or foreigners#wink.

And hey There is no pass percentage this year so you can apply to any medical college you want.#happy


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## livin_ib (Mar 27, 2009)

ramo91 said:


> ... so am pretty damn sure they wont give issues to foreigners and they im sure have more than 2 reserved seats, they have like 2000 seats or something in total,maybe more....


 Nust? Aren?t there 70 seats for MBBS altogether? 



ramo91 said:


> (your wayy off when naming Dow in that list of compulsory entrance test).


 Lol, and what about the others?





ramo91 said:


> ^
> 
> if someone got into AKU with low scores doesnt mean anything .. maybe IBCC messed his/her scores up (unis know IBCC is wack and calculate ther own merit)


 Yeah, they did, by *penalizing* them. They both had 38/40 in IB. (excellent scores.) which got converted to +-800. 




ramo91 said:


> ^
> believe me cramming entire Fsc/interscience in this limited time is a nightmare  .... its wayy tougher applying as a local...


 This statement seems contradictory. The point is, ?foreigners? (put in inverted commas because they may be people who have lived outside the country temporarily and can?t afford to pay the fees in dollars), who don?t take SAT II because they can?t afford to pay the fees, are competing with the same fsc locals who have studied the course for 2 years, and like you said, ?cramming entire Fsc/interscience in this limited time is a nightmare ?



mubashir888 said:


> So when you want to get into Paki medical schools you must be tested on Paki standards(thats my opinion BTW)


I guess it is. 



mubashir888 said:


> and i think you are wrong about that SAT International seats in NUST ...
> There were 20 of them and a guy here on this forum has 19th merit on SAT international seat and was SELECTED for Mbbs.


If that's actually the case then I'm _really_ wrong, that would be my mistake. I'll have to check this up! Oh, are you sure you're just talking about MBBS and not the other branches?



mubashir888 said:


> And this along with my other my Points meant that no one Favour locals or foreigners#wink.


I guess I'll agree with this, and we'll make our peace


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## 4003 (Aug 12, 2008)

From my research all I know is that not all medical colleges require you to give an entry test. It varies for different places. Also I am positive on the fact that there are much more seats offered to foreigners students, especially at DOW (personal experience), not just a couple lol. The quota for foreign students isn't 2 seats per college...on average it's much more. Although certain colleges may have it different.

Other then that...enjoyed the reading. Learned a lot.


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## mubashir888 (Aug 12, 2010)

livin_ib said:


> If that's actually the case then I'm _really_ wrong, that would be my mistake. I'll have to check this up! Oh, are you sure you're just talking about MBBS and not the other branches?


Yup!There were like 20 International seats for MBBS and like 8-10 for BDS.
And no of students who applied were 49.
And the no of seats in NUST are 200(max).
There are just different ways of getting in.

Around 100 come Through Army selection,
whereas rest of them are either foreign cadets(SAT basis) or NUST CADETS(entry test basis)
total hardly makes up to 200.
And in Punjab there are 4 foreign seats per govt. College and they DONT have to give an entry test.#happy


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## ramo91 (Mar 10, 2009)

livin_ib said:


> Nust? Aren?t there 70 seats for MBBS altogether?
> 
> 
> Lol, and what about the others?
> ...


alright that didnt quote right i'll adress para at a time...
I was being specific about it being easier in govt colleges with reserved seats, not ALL colleges esp. in private its pretty fair..

in Alvls i had an AAB.. they converted it into a 79.5% equivalence 875/1100 ... any uni in ther right mind wud know thats messd up.... so they dont used the 875 ,, they do something else usually internally in merit calculation, dont know exactly who you were refering to but AKU doesnt penalise IBCC does, the unis usually treat students pretty fairly... other why's local A'lvl students would get screwd every year..

As for your definition of foreigners, im not contradicting myself, if you havnt given Pak studies, islamiat,urdu you cannot apply and compete as a local student for an open merit seat no matter how little time you've spent abroad, and if you hav given them then you are considered a LOCAL student NOT a foreigner and u'll be applying for an open merit seat and u'll hav to go through hell studying ... i get wat ur saying in that scenario u'll be considerd a local though and u cant compare nor associate with foreigners..


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## HMed (Sep 17, 2010)

OMG guys thank you for all the information but guess what!?
My dad just came back from Paki where he went to IBCC and they told him that they could give us a letter that would give me permission to take the FSC Physics exam alone! So hopefully I'll be going to Paki in the winter for 3 weeks and so I could somewhat prepare for the physics exam then, along with all my other studies..
=)


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## ramo91 (Mar 10, 2009)

HMed said:


> OMG guys thank you for all the information but guess what!?
> My dad just came back from Paki where he went to IBCC and they told him that they could give us a letter that would give me permission to take the FSC Physics exam alone! So hopefully I'll be going to Paki in the winter for 3 weeks and so I could somewhat prepare for the physics exam then, along with all my other studies..
> =)


wow! thats perfect #laugh .. Interesting though,never knew IBCC let people do that..


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