# How I Obtained Clinical & Research Experience in the US



## Rehan

Being a student at a Pakistani medical college myself, I know that to practice in America I will need to have a somewhat competitve application after graduation in order to secure a residency spot in the field of my choice.

After talking to some professors and figuring out what I needed to make myself a competitive applicant I realized that after USMLE scores the two most important things were hands on clinical experience and participating in research electives, both in American hospitals.

So last year I had the chance to visit two US hospitals and participate in a clinical and research elective. The first hospital where I participated was Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, MD.

At that time I was interested in Pediatrics so I went to the Hopkins website and began searching for faculty in the different pediatrics departments and wrote down their names. Then in order to contact them I had to search for their e-mail addresses. The e-mail addresses are not always easy to find and Hopkins' site is no exception. In order to find out the e-mails of the people I wanted to work with, I found this site where I was able to search by doctor name and get a corresponding e-mail address.

After finding e-mail addresses of all the people who I would write to regarding the opportunity for a research elective I drafted an e-mail in which I could change the names of the physicians easily and send out to multiple receipients. In the e-mail I was sure to include:

 which year of medical school I was in at the time
 how much previous clinical/research experience I had already obtained at my home school
 the fact that I would be responsible for all costs associated w/ housing, transportation, and registration (if required)
 and that I am very interested in the field in which I am applying and am seriously considering pursuing it as a career choice

All pretty much common sense stuff but from what I've seen, it really does boost your chances in securing a spot. The next thing to do is e-mail as many people in a department or in different departments as you can. You're working on the shotgun approach here---you send out 15-20 e-mails and hopefully will get a response back from about 3-5 of them. Many times doctors are simply too busy to cater to a medical student and therefore the more people you get in touch with, the better your chances are of getting accepted.

Once a doctor e-mails you back expressing interest in having you with his or her department it is your duty to foster that line of communication and maintain it until you actually do go for your elective. Doctors are simply too busy to have the time to follow up after your request for an elective so the name of the game here is persistence. Many times requesting to be put in touch with the doctor's secretary can help you out a lot in figuring out what paperwork you need to send and where's the best place to secure housing.

Be sure to send in all your paperwork as soon as possible and if you require a visa give yourself at least 90 days before you have to go in order to apply (especially if you are male). If you request Johns Hopkins International Student Center to send you an official letter confirming your elective dates, you can submit that as proof to the US Embassy which will make it much easier for you to obtain a B1/B2 Travel Visa.

My experience at Johns Hopkins in the Pediatrics Ophthalmology department was wonderful and I encourage everyone else who is looking for a place to do an elective to apply to Johns Hopkins School of Medicine.

After you've gotten in touch with the doctor you intend to work with, contact the Office of the Registrar via their website and request the paperwork you need to complete in order to be a *Visiting Medical Student*.

Last but not least, keep in close contact w/ the registrar's office, the physician and the US Consulate and if you get your Visa for travel to the US, you should be all set to arrive at Johns Hopkins and partake in some of the most intriguing and ground breaking research happening in the United States.  

I apologize if any of this is unclear--I wrote it up in a hurry but please feel free to ask any questions you have!

Also others who have already done research/clinical electives elsewhere, please let us know about them and how you were able to get them!


----------



## Natacha

Nice Rehan! Very informative... I guess after that everything is crystal clear.

I only have one question, though. How long was your stay at John Hopkins and were you asked a lot of questions to test your knowledge? In other words, did they expect you to know a lot and did they put you on the spot or did they just teach you what was important and that was it?

I ask how long was your stay because when I go home on vacation, I only go for about 2 months at a time and during Christmas vacation. So, I wanted to know if they would accept me for that short amount of time?

Something else that occured to me is do they give you some kind of certificate once you're done with the research/elective? If not, how am I supposed to put that in along with my documents such as USMLE score and transcript?


----------



## Rehan

Natacha said:


> How long was your stay at John Hopkins and were you asked a lot of questions to test your knowledge? In other words, did they expect you to know a lot and did they put you on the spot or did they just teach you what was important and that was it?


Hmm well it was sort of both ways. There was a lot of "pimping" (barraging a med student/intern/resident with one question after another) when we were seeing patients on rounds and usually after a patient left when we were in clinic but at the same time they were very helpful in outlining things that I should read every night and if I had a question they would always stop what they were doing and help me better understand it---soooo basically they expect you to know quite a bit but if you don't they just nicely tell you what material you should read and totally help you out.

The Professor I was working with lent me his own textbooks to take home and read!  



Natacha said:


> I ask how long was your stay because when I go home on vacation, I only go for about 2 months at a time and during Christmas vacation. So, I wanted to know if they would accept me for that short amount of time?


I went for 6 weeks so 2 months is plenty of time. Just explain to them that you're doing this during your time off and it should be fine.



Natacha said:


> Something else that occured to me is do they give you some kind of certificate once you're done with the research/elective? If not, how am I supposed to put that in along with my documents such as USMLE score and transcript?


After you've finished, Johns Hopkins School of Medicine will have your preceptor fill out an evaluation form which will rate your performance, knowledge and clinical skills, among other things. This will be sent to your home medical college and you can use that as proof or another thing you can do (which I recommend) is to ask your preceptor for a LOR (letter of recommendation) after you have finished your elective with him. Most will be very willing to write you one (since you just worked for free!) and this can go a long way in helping you get an interview for a residency later on.

When people see that official letterhead from Johns Hopkins, they can't help being somewhat impressed!


----------



## Natacha

I was a bit confused about this part... Do you mean that the Dr. was constantly throwing questions for you and the other interns and residents to answer?



> Hmm well it was sort of both ways. There was a lot of "pimping" (barraging a med student/intern/resident with one question after another) when we were seeing patients on rounds and usually after a patient left when we were in clinic




Also, how about the hours?... How long did you spend in the hospital per day? Was the hours given voluntary or did they give you a specific time for you to come and go? and was it easy for you to find housing? Obviously you were located near the hospital so more or less, how much were the housing over that area? Ok ok... One more question and thats it! lol. While you were at the hospital, did they give you food allowance, by any chance or was that on you also? 
Ok, I think I got it all.. :lol:


----------



## Rehan

Natacha said:


> Do you mean that the Dr. was constantly throwing questions for you and the other interns and residents to answer?


Well they're not constantly throwing questions but they do ask questions every now and then to gauge your knowledge but its not the end of the world if you don't know the answer--remember they are there to teach you! Its nothing to really get stressed about...most are really helpful.



Natacha said:


> Also, how about the hours?... How long did you spend in the hospital per day? Was the hours given voluntary or did they give you a specific time for you to come and go?


This mostly depends on your preceptor---I was in pediatric ophthalmology so many times I found myself having to wake up at 5 am for morning surgeries that would oftentimes start around 6:30 AM, and then we'd be in the hospital aftewards as late as seven or eight in the evening. Luckily I didn't have evening rounds all that often, otherwise I woulda been there forever!

Housing was provided through the Hospital and it was great---cheap affordable single dorm rooms were provided for the entire length of my elective there--and the best part was that the dorms were right across the street from the hospital. Took 2 minutes to walk out your dorm and into the hospital.

Oh and no food allowance--you're basically on your own on all costs associated with your elective--but its worth it!


----------



## Natacha

Thank you Rehan...


----------



## Natacha

This site can be very useful in finding jobs, research and clinical electives, etc...
http://www.mssm.edu/


----------



## Neurotic1234

*hi*

Hi Rehan

Pretty nice post up there...actually i have been accepted for an elective at JHU in Neurology. The elective is a research elective. Was wondering how you were able to participate in clinical activities being an international student. If i'd read your post before writing to the faculty, i could've done better..had missed writing stuff like clinical experience and the fact that i'd bear all the expenses. Perhaps i would've received more replies had i done that!


----------



## Rehan

Hey there Neurotic1234!

Welcome to the forum!  

Also, congratulations on getting a research elective at Johns Hopkins---you'll love your time there!

What happened in my scenario was that I had signed up for a research elective in Pediatric Ophthalmology which was to span six weeks during the summer.

However, my faculty member at JHU was gone for the first week when I arrived there due to him having prior commitments so my six week elective was in reality only five weeks long, which was much too short for any real research work to be completed. Therefore my elective mostly became a clinical one and I was fortunate enough to go on rounds with my faculty advisor and even got the amazing opportunity to assist in eye surgeries right next to the doctor himself.


----------



## Neurotic1234

wow..that's cool...my elective is for four weeks...would i be able to convert it into a clinical elective then if i request my faculty?


----------



## Rehan

Well I'd suggest that you first go there and check out the situation and see what the faculty member has scheduled for you to be doing.

If there's a lot of time where you are free, just be persistent and let him know that you're interested in putting your 4 weeks to as much use as possible and working as much as you can. You might get a chance to participate in rounds or be in the OR---what field have you applied in?

Also, making contacts with other doctors in the same department while you're there can prove to be very beneficial---sometimes these other faculty members will invite you to work alongside them if your main faculty advisor doesn't have anything for you to do on a certain day.

Remember, hard work and persistence are the key to showing them that we foreign students are eager and willing to put in the time and effort that they want to see!


----------



## Neurotic1234

no scope for working in the OR...elective is in neurology...wanted to do neurosurgery...but they were all committed for that period..nevertheless..something is better than nothing!


----------



## Rehan

Well there's a lot of overlap at JHU in the neurology/neurosurgery departments. I had a friend who actually was there the same time I was from my school working in neurosurgery and he would go on rounds with the neurology guys quite often and vice versa.

Once you get there, I'm sure you'll meet some neurosurgery guys and will probably have a chance to see a few operations. At least I hope so!

Really hope it works out, and best of luck!


----------



## Neurotic1234

ohh lets c..my elective is at the Kennedy Krieger Institute..i guess thats not a part of the Johns Hopkins Neurology Dept...i think its a separate entity..so the chances of workin wid the neurosurgery dept seems very limited.

from wut u said, i presume ur friend wants to do a residency in neurosurg. did the elective at JHU in NS help him? If yes, in wut way was it beneficial?

thanx..ur very fast at replying!


----------



## Rehan

Neurotic1234 said:


> ohh lets c..my elective is at the Kennedy Krieger Institute..i guess thats not a part of the Johns Hopkins Neurology Dept...i think its a separate entity..so the chances of workin wid the neurosurgery dept seems very limited.


Well the Kennedy Krieger Institute is just a fancy name that they gave the building right next to the medical school and the hospital because of some donor who gave so much money they named it after him. In reality, the Johns Hopkins medical school, the hospital, and the Kennedy Krieger Institute are all right next to each other and connected to each other as well. It's all basically the same thing.

I really recommend that you just start volunteering for extra work when you are there--they will really appreciate your enthusiasm and work ethic and will most likely allow you to do more stuff, ie observing an actual surgery, going on grand rounds, etc.



Neurotic1234 said:


> from wut u said, i presume ur friend wants to do a residency in neurosurg. did the elective at JHU in NS help him? If yes, in wut way was it beneficial?


I can't stress enough how much it has helped him. Because of his research elective this past summer, his faculty advisor is allowing him to return back for clinical electives in neurosurgery this coming winter, and also just putting that he did a research elective on his CV and that he received an LOR from a faculty advisor at JHU has allowed him to be accepted for electives at the University of Pittsburgh and Mayo Clinic just to name a few. A great LOR from JHU can open doors!

I hope you found this information useful!


----------



## Neurotic1234

wow..u mean to say that despite being an international student, he's been allowed to do a clinical elective at JHU??? thats so cool...

hmm..i'll have to find some way to get my foot into the neurosurgery dept somehow..so that i maybe able to do something there in the future like another research elective next year or something.


----------



## Medicineman

Thanks for the info Rehan. Very helpful
I want to ask two things: First what were your prof grades, and what effect will they have on the selection for an elective. I don't have any supplys and my grades are good but not extraordinary. 
Secondly, I don't think my principal will be that enthusiastic about me going for an elective, especially since we don't get a long summer break (3-4 weeks max), so that makes it hard for me to get that "Dean's Office Letter of Recommendation" to mail to JHU. Any advice on what to do? What was the sitauation at your college?


----------



## Rehan

I don't believe your prof scores have much relevance to the Registrar's office at American universities. They care more about whether you've passed or not, which of course you have otherwise you wouldn't be here.

As far as only having a 3-4 week break, I'd try my best to convince your principal to let you miss an extra week or two of school in order to further your chances of a career later on. If you promise to make up the missed rotations or lectures somehow he might be willing to consider it.

At my college I simply spoke to the Student Affairs office which drafted me a letter and had the Dean sign it. Then I faxed JHU a copy of the letter and my prof transcripts and also mailed them the originals.

Anything you send in the mail though, keep a copy of it for yourself---you never know with the Pakistan Post whether its actually going to get there or not, and how long it will take.


----------



## Medicineman

You mailed your original transcripts? When did you get them back? Were they mailed to back to you or did you get them when you went to JHU?


----------



## Rehan

Oh no, sorry, I meant I mailed them copies of my transcripts but mailed them the original letter from my Dean.


----------



## Medicineman

Okay. One more I wanted to ask. After doing one or two electives in a speciality like neurosurgery, what are my chances of getting a residency at Hopkins assuming I impress the faculty over there? Also assume I get top scores in the Steps (99/99). Will I have to do more hospital work/research in the US before applying to get a successful match or will the previous electives and good scores suffice?


----------



## Rehan

I'm not exactly sure, but I do know that the more you do and the more contacts you have, the easier it is.

After doing a couple of electives in the same place and building up a good relationship with the faculty you will probably be at least given an interview when it comes time for a residency and of course top scores on the USMLE will only help you.

Basically, you're headed in the right direction--just keep working hard and stick with it and I'm sure the sky's the limit!


----------



## Medicineman

Okay. Thanks Rehan! You've been a big help!


----------



## MastahRiz

Some friends of mine just got accepted into research electives at University of Washington, so if anyone out there is still looking for electives, try to get in touch with someone there. Good luck.


----------



## Natacha

Oh sweet!  Thanks for that info MastahRiz.


----------



## atenolol

I'm immune to electives


----------



## Natacha

What do you mean by that atenolol? I dont understand.


----------



## Guest

gud information rehan..yhank you very much..i wanted to ask if its better to a clinical elective in a mediocre uni or research elective at jhu??


----------



## Rehan

Kashish,

Well, research electives and clinical electives are both equally important and I feel that you need both on your CV/resume in order to be a competitive applicant for a residency position in the US.

As I understand it, usually people do research electives if they are in 4th year or below of med school and do clinical electives in their final year of med school.

I would personally recommend a research elective at JHU if you have the opportunity to do it---a good LOR (letter of recommendation) from a doctor at Johns Hopkins can open the door for other research or clinical electives later on.

Is the mediocre university you refer to in the United States or is it in India?


----------



## Guest

I wanted to ask which one is better to do a clinical elective or research elective?? which all universities allow IMG's to attend a elective??Did u have any benefit of attending a elective in John Hopkins,did they call you for a interview/match? 

Sorry for asking so many questions..bt it would be nice if you could clear my doubts? 

Is it necessary to do a elective before finishing the medical school? 

Kashish


----------



## MastahRiz

Kashish,

Please read through the rest of the forum, namely, the two threads you have posted this response and you will see that your questions have already been answered.


----------



## Guest

*electives*

Hello rehan,

thank you very much for answering my queries.Ur forum has vastly increased my knowledge. I posted double by fault,sorry for that.

I talked of mediocre uni in USA like uni of connecticut..they are giving electives to international students.I m in final year already,so which is the better option for me?Can i do these after finishing my medical school?

Thank you!


----------



## Ashish_padnani

Hi Kashish
I m a final mbbs student studying in Ahmedabad. I have a GC and i am also planning to do my electives, atleast 6months in US. I would recommend that u should do the electives in the med school where u further want to do the resiency. If u can impress the HOD and the PD of the department, u can definitely find a place in the prog, or atleast it will help u to secure an interview with them.

Also u r right, that most of the uni of US offer electives to foreign studnts, and i have also known (from other forums) that doing a clincical elective would be much better than doing a research elective, as u want to do residemcy in primary care.

i would like to know what universitiess u consider for electives and why, pros and cons of diff universities..

best

Ashish


----------



## Ashish_padnani

hey rehan and mastahriz,
i have a very imp qurestion to ask and very urgent too.
u did a research elective in the John Hopkins; now would that be counted as a part of your internship?
For eg. suppose i do 2months of clinical electives in surgery in US, would that be counted as a part of my internship or will i have to perform separate internship in my college in surgery department apart from the 2 months done in US?
please reply soon as i need to take take some decisions as soon as possible.
thanx
ashish


----------



## Rehan

Ashish,

Which internship are you referring to? If your college requires a certain time period of internships, you should speak with them regarding what will fulfill those requirements.

If your school is hesitant to recommend you for a research/clinical position at Johns Hopkins you should really try to convince them that it will be highly beneficial to your career if they would allow you to participate in it.

I don't know why a medical college would not want its students to go abroad and gain more experience. That sounds ridiculous.

If you have any more questions, just write back on here.


----------



## Ashish_padnani

hi Rehan
well, we have a 5.5 yrs medical curriculum, out of which 4.5 years of studies and 1 yr of internship (which is as good as 4th year clerkship in the US). This means that when i am doing my internship, i m in the final year of my med school curriculum and i m eligible for the clinical electives in US.

During the internhsip, an intern performs all the clinical examination and other ward procedures like catheterisation, ICD insertion etc. etc....
Now, my college says that u wont be allowed to perform any clinical examination and other ward procedures in the US, but i tried to convince them that they do allow us to perform all those things that an intern is supposed to perform in India. But stilll the college says that it wants NOC from the university in which i do my electives stating that i would be allowed to perform all the above things. i said that i m supposed to apply to the university and for applying i need the LOR and signature from the authority, but the college kept to the point that first u bring us the NOC and then we give u NOC and then my university will give me NOC and then i would be allowed to do the clinical electives, which then could be considered as a part of my internship 

Now, would these clinical electives be considered as a part of internship or is it considered separate from your med school curriculum.

thanx



Rehan said:


> Ashish,
> 
> Which internship are you referring to? If your college requires a certain time period of internships, you should speak with them regarding what will fulfill those requirements.
> 
> If your school is hesitant to recommend you for a research/clinical position at Johns Hopkins you should really try to convince them that it will be highly beneficial to your career if they would allow you to participate in it.
> 
> I don't know why a medical college would not want its students to go abroad and gain more experience. That sounds ridiculous.
> 
> If you have any more questions, just write back on here.


----------



## Rehan

Ashish,

How your medical college interprets your elective at Johns Hopkins is up to them. What I can tell you though is that when you finish your official elective at Johns Hopkins, they will send the doctor you worked with an evaluation form which he will fill out and then Johns Hopkins will mail that form to your medical college.

If you get a research elective at JHU, you most likely will not get to have much hands-on clinical experience. If you are allowed to have a clinical elective, then it will be different.

My advice to you is to try and get a clinical elective any way that you can. If your college is against it, don't tell them. Simply e-mail doctors at the JHU website asking them if you could unofficially work with them for 5-6 weeks. Use your summer vacations and take some extra time off from college (claim that you were ill) and just go and get some experience.

Do not let your college ruin your efforts by the usual NOC bureacratic bullshit.

I hope this helps.


----------



## atenolol

I have become immuno-compromised and therefore contracted an elective.


----------



## Medico123

hello rehan,

Can you also plz guide about observerships given in various universities after completion of graduation?
I am in final year of medical school & will start internship nxt year.What all things can help me in getting into a better IM program in future other than electives?

Which branch shoul one apply in electives..eg Cardio or gastro or any other.Which is easier to get?

Durind research elective,what is actual work done?Are you able to do a project there in that time?

What all can i do in US to get clinical experience after my graduation?Can i do research elective after that also?What are the other options to do research in US after graduation?Plz give some information about observerships also..

I would like you thannk you very much for providing so much valuable information.


----------



## maryam786

heyy rehan....thanku sooo much for putting in sooo much info bout the elective s....its been my dream goin to the US esp to JHU for an elective...esp...in peadriatrics......i have a q though? i AM girl...now i dont want to laughing....am pretty serious....how on earth will hospital accomodation suit me...is it safe...since i will be travelling all alone...and staying all alone......i have friends...but all the way in chicago.....so how can i be helped?and yea u said....something bout the visa......being a female wud the visa process be easy?one more thing....since i intend to take the USMLE in the future...i have done electives here in pakistan...with AMERICAN board doctors.....(in peads and cardiology) thought my cardio didnt go that well....coz..the cath lab made me feel dizzy..esp the heavy lead suits...so the recommendation letter that my cardiology physician...says..i had good med knowledge....it was pretty hard to impress him...coz he used to bombard alot of questions....and EKGs....were the most annoying...but had fun....will the letters help in he US?hoping for a reply


----------



## maryam786

HEY REHAN one more thing r u a resident? or a student?have u already graduated from a pakistani school and now in the US?


----------



## nataraj

*to rehan*

hello sir
i am an img from india
i have given step1 and will write step2 in dec.
i am planning to come to usa in jan
as u said i wont to apply for next yr residency with some usa experience
so plz guide me sir
what shud be my next step sir

thanks in advance

nataraj


----------



## Rehan

nataraj said:


> hello sir
> i am an img from india
> i have given step1 and will write step2 in dec.
> i am planning to come to usa in jan
> as u said i wont to apply for next yr residency with some usa experience
> so plz guide me sir
> what shud be my next step sir
> 
> thanks in advance
> 
> nataraj


All the advice is already located in this thread. The best advice I can give you is to read an entire thread before asking a question. If after you have read the entire thread and you still don't find the answer to your question then post your question and be specific.

Don't say things like "plz guide me". Go back a few pages and read about getting your visa.


----------



## Doc_Ammara

i have read the whole thread and its pretty informative.one question that i would like to ask is that once i heard that some organizations also sponsor the students for doing an elective course,i mean they pay for all your expenses during an elective except the visa/ticket thing.i am not sure which organizations are they...whether they are the hospitals themselves where you are proceeding for an elective or else?? do you have any info regarding non-self finance based elctives or universities offering elsetives at their own expenses not yours?


----------



## Doc_Ammara

and yeah...how about stipened ones?


----------



## Rehan

Doc_Ammara said:


> i have read the whole thread and its pretty informative.one question that i would like to ask is that once i heard that some organizations also sponsor the students for doing an elective course,i mean they pay for all your expenses during an elective except the visa/ticket thing.i am not sure which organizations are they...whether they are the hospitals themselves where you are proceeding for an elective or else?? do you have any info regarding non-self finance based elctives or universities offering elsetives at their own expenses not yours?


Because an elective is basically you going to another hospital and learning from their faculty and staff, you'll find that its very difficult to find any programs that will pay for your expenses such as housing, food, etc.

I personally haven't heard of any such programs but if anyone else has, please do post them here. But as a general rule I think you should expect to pay for EVERYTHING when planning on doing an elective away from your host school's hospital.


----------



## Doc_Ammara

oaky. and what about electives outside US ?? i mean are there pretty enough chances to take up an elective in UK or somewhere else in Europe or Asia ?? are there any kinda opprtunities there or we should be looking forward to US only for electives,also is it worthy to do electives in paki hospitals except your own school hospital and also those outside US ??


----------



## Rehan

Doc_Ammara said:


> oaky. and what about electives outside US ?? i mean are there pretty enough chances to take up an elective in UK or somewhere else in Europe or Asia ?? are there any kinda opprtunities there or we should be looking forward to US only for electives,also is it worthy to do electives in paki hospitals except your own school hospital and also those outside US ??


Well it really comes down to the question of where you would like to settle down after medical school and develop a career. If you are focused on practicing in the United States then it makes perfect sense for you to do electives in the United States so that you may develop contacts, get relevant experience, and have letters of recommendation from US doctors when you apply for post-graduate studies (residency). 

If you want to practice in England or Germany or anywhere else, then it makes sense to do electives there so that your experience actually means something when you apply to that place for residency. I have heard of many people doing electives from Pakistan at Kings College in the UK and have heard many good things about the place.

Unless you plan on practicing in Pakistan I would say that doing electives at other Pakistani hospitals is a waste of time in terms of forwarding your career. You will learn many important things but in terms of helping you get a residency spot overseas, it will most likely mean nothing.


----------



## Doc_Ammara

ohh yah...focus should be on where one is to procceed further and plan the electives right up there.
thx


----------



## atenolol

Electives are gay. The only thing that matters in life is U S M L E. Aab bol.


----------



## MastahRiz

Remember atenolol,

It's not what you know. It's what you know about whom.


----------



## priti

Rehan said:


> Being a student at a Pakistani medical college myself, I know that to practice in America I will need to have a somewhat competitve application after graduation in order to secure a residency spot in the field of my choice.
> 
> After talking to some professors and figuring out what I needed to make myself a competitive applicant I realized that after USMLE scores the two most important things were hands on clinical experience and participating in research electives, both in American hospitals.
> 
> So last year I had the chance to visit two US hospitals and participate in a clinical and research elective. The first hospital where I participated was Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, MD.
> 
> At that time I was interested in Pediatrics so I went to the Hopkins website and began searching for faculty in the different pediatrics departments and wrote down their names. Then in order to contact them I had to search for their e-mail addresses. The e-mail addresses are not always easy to find and Hopkins' site is no exception. In order to find out the e-mails of the people I wanted to work with, I found this site where I was able to search by doctor name and get a corresponding e-mail address.
> 
> After finding e-mail addresses of all the people who I would write to regarding the opportunity for a research elective I drafted an e-mail in which I could change the names of the physicians easily and send out to multiple receipients. In the e-mail I was sure to include:
> 
> which year of medical school I was in at the time
> how much previous clinical/research experience I had already obtained at my home school
> the fact that I would be responsible for all costs associated w/ housing, transportation, and registration (if required)
> and that I am very interested in the field in which I am applying and am seriously considering pursuing it as a career choice
> All pretty much common sense stuff but from what I've seen, it really does boost your chances in securing a spot. The next thing to do is e-mail as many people in a department or in different departments as you can. You're working on the shotgun approach here---you send out 15-20 e-mails and hopefully will get a response back from about 3-5 of them. Many times doctors are simply too busy to cater to a medical student and therefore the more people you get in touch with, the better your chances are of getting accepted.
> 
> Once a doctor e-mails you back expressing interest in having you with his or her department it is your duty to foster that line of communication and maintain it until you actually do go for your elective. Doctors are simply too busy to have the time to follow up after your request for an elective so the name of the game here is persistence. Many times requesting to be put in touch with the doctor's secretary can help you out a lot in figuring out what paperwork you need to send and where's the best place to secure housing.
> 
> Be sure to send in all your paperwork as soon as possible and if you require a visa give yourself at least 90 days before you have to go in order to apply (especially if you are male). If you request Johns Hopkins International Student Center to send you an official letter confirming your elective dates, you can submit that as proof to the US Embassy which will make it much easier for you to obtain a B1/B2 Travel Visa.
> 
> My experience at Johns Hopkins in the Pediatrics Ophthalmology department was wonderful and I encourage everyone else who is looking for a place to do an elective to apply to Johns Hopkins School of Medicine.
> 
> After you've gotten in touch with the doctor you intend to work with, contact the Office of the Registrar via their website and request the paperwork you need to complete in order to be a *Visiting Medical Student*.
> 
> Last but not least, keep in close contact w/ the registrar's office, the physician and the US Consulate and if you get your Visa for travel to the US, you should be all set to arrive at Johns Hopkins and partake in some of the most intriguing and ground breaking research happening in the United States.
> 
> I apologize if any of this is unclear--I wrote it up in a hurry but please feel free to ask any questions you have!
> 
> Also others who have already done research/clinical electives elsewhere, please let us know about them and how you were able to get them!


when should I start applying for observership?do I need step1 score 4 applying as i'm to finish med school?
what kind of clinical/ research exp did u obtain from ur home school?
can i get a link for colleges who entertain img's for observership(esp Peds)?

Thanks


----------



## MastahRiz

You can always apply for an observership, no matter which year of med school you're in. You don't need a step 1 score for observerships.

What do you mean by "home school?" This is such a broad question. Your own medical school doesn't give you "research experience," and the clinical experience is different at every school, but they cover all of the same fields. Other than that I don't really understand this question.

There are no "links" for colleges that entertain img's for observerships. A hospital has nothing to gain from granting you an observership, and therefore has zero interest in being informative about it. You have to be aggressive and find that out on your own by getting in touch with each school/hospital that you would like to observe at.


----------



## priti

hi MastahRiz

Thanks for the reply.
by''home school" I mean the college from where one is doing one's MBBS.
do u suggest that I start contacting hospitals now for observership in july/aug'07?

Thanks


----------



## MastahRiz

Absolutely, you will have a lot of papers to send back and forth and the application process will take a long time. You can never start too early.


----------



## atenolol

MastahRiz,

You are so informative, it hurts. Keep on doin' what you're doin'.


----------



## MastahRiz

haha. Thank you sir.


----------



## UltraSpy

Rehan, I have a few questions...

You said you visited two hospitals, one was John Hopkins in Baltimore. Which one was the other? and if you participated in them during the same period, meaning as one ended the other elective started.

Also what year of medical school did you participate in them? because some college websites say that in order to do clinical research, you have to be in the final year of your schooling? And in what year do you recommend both clinical as well as research electives?

I have been researching and most schools have applications/forms that you fill out for clinical/research electives. In your opinion should we use these applications or e-mail the concerning doctors or both for obtaining research and clinical electives. 

Sorry for asking so much#sorry. Thanks in advance.


----------



## MastahRiz

UltraSpy,

Many people do two electives in one vacation break in exactly the way that you mentioned, they'll finish one and start the next right away. For Pakistani medical students, this usually occurs over an 8 week span with four weeks given to each elective.

You can obtain research electives in any year of your medical training, while you're right about clinical electives. You generally need to be in either you final year of medical school or simply finished with your second to last year, which for us means finished with 4th year.

There are ways in which some students have participated in clinical electives before reaching their fourth year, but those are really unique cases and are somewhat unofficial, granted often by way of the well known "hook-up."

For both research and clinical electives, I would recommend getting in touch with departments and doctors directly and first getting their approval. Once you have done so, then proceed to fill out the application so that you can say you've already been accepted as per your correspondence with the doctor you'll be working with. This will definitely facilitate the process and practically guarantee you an elective, which you may not be privy to if you simply apply without any prior contact.


----------



## maik7upurz

Now that there are new rules in the UK to give first pref jobs to UK and EU citizens no matter if they are less qualified as a foreigner theres almost no chance of any paki getting job there, they all going to be fighting for the few spots in usa now which is all the more important for paki pakis to do electives now.


----------



## vinegar

I'm an American national, studying in a government medical college in Pakistan.

I'm in the process of applying for a clinical elective at a university in the US, but almost all the places I've tried at have 2 requirements which immediately disqualify me:


You have to have completed your 4th year of study
You have to be studying at a school accredited by the Liaison Committee on Medical Education or Education Department of the American Osteopathic Association.
See, for example the Stanford site. It says on Application - Visiting Clerkships - MD Program - Education - Stanford University School of Medicine

*



International Medical Students
If you are attending a Foreign Medical School, unfortunately we are unable to accommodate your request for a clinical rotation here at Stanford. We regret that the demands on our resources allow us only to consider students who are currently enrolled in their fourth or final year M.D. or D.O. program at a school accredited by the Liaison Committee on Medical Education or Education Department of the American Osteopathic Association. We wish you well in obtaining a suitable clinical experience.

Click to expand...

*Now what?!? 

Would appreciate any help...


----------



## maik7upurz

Why not find a different college besides Stanford!


----------



## vinegar

Most of the colleges I've tried have the same problem. Johns Hopkins, St Louis...


----------



## Rehan

Vinegar, I've found that many times what's written as policy and what's actually followed or enforced are two pretty different things.

You may not be outright eligible for a clinical elective but sometimes doing a research elective first with a faculty member in the department you're interested in can open the door for an "unofficial" clinical elective at the recommendation of the faculty member.

Harvard, Mt. Sinai, Cornell, and Brown all do take foreign students, just to name a few off the top of my head. So you still _do_ have options.


----------



## vinegar

Rehan said:


> Vinegar, I've found that many times what's written as policy and what's actually followed or enforced are two pretty different things.
> 
> You may not be outright eligible for a clinical elective but sometimes doing a research elective first with a faculty member in the department you're interested in can open the door for an "unofficial" clinical elective at the recommendation of the faculty member.


So you're suggesting that I do a research elective this year, and wait till next year to do a clinical?


----------



## Rehan

Yeah you could try doing that or you could get in touch with a faculty member and see if they're able to be lenient regarding their rules about doing clinical electives. I went to Hopkins planning on doing a research elective and it turned out to be 100% clinical...so yeah, its not always so black and white.


----------



## vinegar

Well, I've spent the whole of yesterday doing just that -- emailing the faculty members at different hospitals. Most of the replies say:

1) we are forwarding your mail to the elective department. And then the elective deprtment says that they dont consider applicants who aren't from LCME accreditted schools.
2) we don't have any positions this summer

or something of the sort.

They just don't seem to be that cooperative now! :S


----------



## MastahRiz

just keep trying. I had to send about fifty emails before I even got one rejection, so just imagine what I went through for an acceptance.


----------



## maik7upurz

you sent 50 emails and got one rejection? so 49 people wanted u?


----------



## vinegar

I think he meant that he sent 50 mails, and got 1 reply. Which was a rejection.


----------



## MastahRiz

MastahRiz said:


> just keep trying. I had to send about fifty emails before I even got one rejection, so just imagine what I went through *for an acceptance*.


Get it?


----------



## maik7upurz

Ok I get it now. He sent 50 emails, 49 didnt didnt even reply, and the 1 that did rejected him. heh


----------



## cyma

hello rehanYour post was very informative..thanksThere are a few things i need to ask.. i am currently in 4th yr and though i have done research elective in pk, i haven't done any in the US. I am planning to do clinical electives in my final year. what are my chances of getting a clinical elective in the US cosidering i have no research experience there? Also, should i apply through registrar's office or contact the professor who i want to rotate with personally?Lastly, what is the best time to apply for elective in june next year?Thanks!


----------



## MastahRiz

The best time to apply for electives is any time you have a break from classes. You may need to miss some class time as well as most electives are a minimum of four to five weeks. Serious electives should be at the least five weeks long.

It's hard to answer something like, "what are my chances," but I can tell you other people who have the same experience you do or less apply for electives all the time and are accepted as well. People with no experience sometimes find electives faster than people with years of experience. It all depends on where you apply, what field you're applying in, what the school's policies are for international students, and how many other applicants they have.

You should get in touch with both, the registrar's office and the doctor that you wish to do your elective with. It usually works out better if you contact the doctor first.

If you want an elective in June of next year, then start the application process as soon as possible. It's never too early, and you will need a lot of time for things like paperwork correspondence and visa application/paperwork.


----------



## Natacha

Really good responce, Riz! It was very accurate and straight to the point.#yes


----------



## Doc_Ammara

@ Natacha
nice to see your post after a long time....

A few weeks back, i gotta chnace to attend the presentation by an old Nishtarian Dr. who did USMLE and now he's a crdiologist working in US. as he was here to spend his holidays,he gave a presentation regarding USMLe.well,he was of the veiw that to improve your Cv, one must have clinical experience in US like electives,etc but he also added that before your final year,its usualy bit difficult for us ( i mean govt. medical students) to go to US and do electives since we dont get much vacation and usually the vacation coincide with the prep leaves ,so that doesnt mean that u just sit back and relax till your final year.he suggested us to do some research electives or clinical ones in Pakistan too at well-reputed hospitals like AGha khan or Shaukat khanam...in his opinion,that also adds to our experience and he also suggested us to do research by ourselves ..like making group and doing lil' assignments as we have opportunity to come across hundreds of patients in wards....esp. in govt. hospitals associated with teaching medical schools.lets see how far this works! 
i am planning to work on this in the future.lets c!


----------



## MastahRiz

It is difficult to get time to do electives in the US, but you should definitely try. For example, at Shifa College of Medicine, students make sure to attend every class before the summer break, so that when summer vacations come around, they can take extra time off to spend working at an elective in the US and not have to worry about attendance falling too low when they miss two weeks or so of class when college starts again.


Good luck.


----------



## Doc_Ammara

yah,i know that about Shifa very well...but in my case, i always get almost one n half month summer vacation which are my prep leaves as well,i mean immediately aftr that we hav our professional examz as per UHS schedules and by the time we are free from it, theres not more than 2 weeks break that we are provisionally promoted to next year classes.
anyways,i am planning for US electives too but havnt yet started workng up for them.See when i start this buisness....
Thanks for the wish!


----------



## Natacha

Thank you Doc_Ammara! It's always nice to be back.:razz:


----------



## cyma

Thank you rizwan for the response!


----------



## Ryan

Hey Rehan.. how are you doing? its really nice to see people like you helping others.. i mean who would take the pain to take out time from their schedule and guide others. anyway, My best wishes for u.. 
okay now.. i m right now a fourth year medical student, i am kind fo new to this elective thingy.. my first and foremost question is.. i want to get electives at JHU.. intended to get them in june.. july or august.. wanted to know am i late in applying or you think still there is time..?


----------



## MastahRiz

Ryan,

If you simply go through the school's registrar office or follow the normal applicant procedure they have JHU, it'll probably be a close shave trying to get everything ready by summer time. Your best bet, whether short of time or not, is to always get in touch with a doctor first, and ask him directly if you can participate in a research elective. After he accepts you, then go ahead and apply through the school, but make sure they understand that you're already cleared for arrival.

This will speed things up and shorten the time it takes to send things back and forth between schools such as paperwork and also gives you time to apply for a visa, if you need to do so.

You can never start too early when it comes to getting electives. Hope this helps, and best of luck.


----------



## Rehan

Ryan said:


> Hey Rehan.. how are you doing? its really nice to see people like you helping others.. i mean who would take the pain to take out time from their schedule and guide others. anyway, My best wishes for u..
> okay now.. i m right now a fourth year medical student, i am kind fo new to this elective thingy.. my first and foremost question is.. i want to get electives at JHU.. intended to get them in june.. july or august.. wanted to know am i late in applying or you think still there is time..?


I would start applying right away. The most important thing you need to get done is make sure you have a passport made. The second most important thing is to actually get accepted into an elective and have JHU (or any other school) send you a letter proving that you have been accepted so that you can start the process of applying for a US B-1 Tourist Visa. This step of the procedure will take the most time.

Good luck! #happy


----------



## Ryan

hmm.. thanks for the super quick reply both of you.. hmm okay i ill make sure that my passport request is submitted tomorrow.. inhsAllah.. okay next.. *is to actually get accepted into an elective and have JHU (or any other school) send you a letter proving that you have been accepted so that you can start the process of applying for a US B-1 Tourist Visa. >>> *how do i do that??


----------



## Rehan

Read the first post in this thread -- it gives a pretty detailed guide as to how to go about obtaining an elective.


----------



## Ryan

i have but i m a bit confused.. let sm clear my head here.. if u dont mind.. 
My basic interest is in surgery.. but i m told that if u get a recidency in surgery my family life will be zero.. i would be on call 24 hours.. and u know really stressed out thingy.. 
secondly.. i m told even if i get a 99 in step 1 & 98 in step 2.. my chances of getting a residency in surgery would be 9-10%.. 
would u like to say something about this?


----------



## MastahRiz

your chances of a residency will be slim, but not that slim with scores like 95+. There are plenty of IMG's with residencies in the US, who did not get a 99 on their step 1.

You won't have any family life during residency, regardless of your specialty.

Family life, residencies, and electives, not really all meant for the same thread. Let's keep this discussion limited to questions about research/clinical electives.


----------



## Ryan

in which feild should i go for electives? one of the guys i know had a view that just accept watever u get and get in there.. as in.. jis feild mein bhi miley le lo. wat are ur views on that?


----------



## Rehan

You should apply to anything that you have an interest in. Nobody can tell you what's best for you except yourself. If you have an interest in a few different fields, apply to all of them and see where you get in.

Also, please remember that this forum is for English only. Please do not post in any other language. Thanks.


----------



## Ryan

hmm.. thank you. i have other queries too.. but i guess this is not the right thread to ask them...


----------



## bhains_ki_dhum

I heard if you email a PD in the US and ask to babysit his kids, you have a way better shot at scoring a residency. I mean f research. WTF are stem cells anyway?


----------



## Medicineman

I'm in final year MBBS. I recently got an elective at JHU but had to cancel because I won't be having any holidays at all this year. My question is that after I give my final professional exams, the time that I will have till the result comes, can I and should I apply for an elective during that time period?


----------



## MastahRiz

Yeah, you might as well do it at any chance you get before you start studying for the USMLE.


----------



## Medicineman

Some elective programs demand proof of health insurance along with the application form. What to do?


----------



## MastahRiz

You have to get medical insurance and then send in proof with your application, just like they want. No way to get around it. This question has already been answered in detail. Please search the forum before posting. Thanks.


----------



## Medicineman

thanks


----------



## UltraSpy

Rehan said:


> So last year *I had the chance to visit two US hospitals and participate in a clinical and research elective.* The first hospital where I participated was Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, MD.


REHAN,

Which was the other hospital? 

and

Which year of MBBS were you in when you went to do these electives?

Thanks:happy:


----------



## jattsingh

ok so what if i am already out of medical school? I came to america 1 1/2 years ago and am a permanent resident. and am applying for the 08 match. I have done two observerships with MD's in my city, however everywhere I look for any clinical position, the programs all say that they do not accept graduates, only students who are still in med school. 

Basically, how can I get clinical experience here in the US being a foreign graduate? Everywhere I have looked, they all do not allow non-licensed people to do anything.


----------



## MastahRiz

Try to get in touch with programs anyway, regardless of what their written rules are. Some may still accept you. Otherwise, it may be too late.


----------



## Rehan

Jattsingh,

You could try to apply for a research elective role at some school or in a specific lab at a university and then ask your preceptor if they would be willing to let you have some clinical experience or observership role as well. This could start with you just going on Grand Rounds a few times and could perhaps develop into more of a full fledged clinical experience.


----------



## alimehdi

Hey Rehan, the advice you are giving is really helpful. I am a third yr MBBS student at Army Medical College and quite frankly there is no precedence of going abroad for a residency in our college, a fact that is very demoralising for me. The first and foremost problem that i am facing is that our summer vacations are way too short ( 4 wks) and badly placed ( mid june to mid july) to be able to enroll in some good elective program. Also do you think that doing some elective or research work here in pakistan would help me in procuring an elective abroad. Finally could you plz tell me which clg you are from?


----------



## MastahRiz

Alimehdi,

Read the rest of the thread to learn about how to get an elective abroad, it's all been mentioned.

I go to Shifa College of Medicine and we also get only three weeks off for a summer break, but I take three weeks extra and make it into a 6 week break so that I can do an elective. When I come back, I have to make everything up that I missed, but it's the only way. You have to do the same.

Electives in Pakistan won't count for anything in any country except Pakistan.


----------



## Rehan

alimehdi, MastahRiz is correct.

Arrange ahead of time to take some extra time off and try to do a minimum of 6 weeks as anything shorter will end up not being very productive.

I go to Shifa College of Medicine as well.

I agree that research done in Pakistan will not be very beneficial to your resume if you plan to apply for post-graduate training abroad.


----------



## liaison151

Hello Rehan,
It was really helpful in reading your email regarding getting electives. But I guess that is for the medical student. I am an international medical graduate from Pakistan, and I am here in US for the USMLE exams. I have been told to take up observership in US, but I am having a very hard time in finding one. I have sent maybe a 100 emails to different institutions with no reply. I will continue trying out that, but do you have clue as to which istitutes will be helpful in giving me observerships??


----------



## MastahRiz

You can try this link here.


----------



## fahdi

Hi Rehan,
I have been accepted for research electives (clinical research) at John Hopkins in the Department of Orthopedics and I also got accepted for clinical electives at UT Southwestern (currently ranked 18th in US) in the Department of Cardiology, both for the next year. I won’t be able to spend more than 6 weeks there because at that time I will be in my final year and it will be impossible to go there again before the completion of my final year. I personally think that clinical electives would be more fruitful from the residency point of view as the letter of Recommendations that I get will speak more about my clinical skills. What are your thoughts on that? Which would be more valuable, Research or clinical electives?

I also would like to say that everyone here says that only research work done in US would be of value. I think if you do a research (under supervision of a senior doctor who has been involved in research work) and then get it published in a peer reviewed journal (or at least an indexed journal) even in Pakistan, it does count. Surely not as much valuable as research work done in US but definitely a lot more than what we think of.


----------



## MastahRiz

fahdi said:


> Hi Rehan,
> I have been accepted for research electives (clinical research) at John Hopkins in the Department of Orthopedics and I also got accepted for clinical electives at UT Southwestern (currently ranked 18th in US) in the Department of Cardiology, both for the next year. I won?t be able to spend more than 6 weeks there because at that time I will be in my final year and it will be impossible to go there again before the completion of my final year. I personally think that clinical electives would be more fruitful from the residency point of view as the letter of Recommendations that I get will speak more about my clinical skills. What are your thoughts on that? Which would be more valuable, Research or clinical electives?
> 
> I also would like to say that everyone here says that only research work done in US would be of value. I think if you do a research (under supervision of a senior doctor who has been involved in research work) and then get it published in a peer reviewed journal (or at least an indexed journal) even in Pakistan, it does count. Surely not as much valuable as research work done in US but definitely a lot more than what we think of.


I think the clinical elective would do you more good than the research elective, especially since the clinical elective is in such a competitive field like cardiology. Then again, you should try and find out what project you'll be working on if you do go for the research elective because it may very well be a huge once in a life-time kind of project (though, that's rare). If it happens that the research is in a really ground breaking aspect of Ortho then maybe you should consider the research elective instead, but otherwise I think you're safe going for the clinical elective. Six weeks is plenty of time btw, and you're right, it's hard to go for electives in the final year of mbbs.

You're also right that research anywhere is better than no research at all, but research in Pakistan will only make your residency application better than other Pakistani graduates, not bring you into a competitive tier of American graduates as well, whereas enough research in American universities just might.

Congrats on the elective acceptance.


----------



## memon

hey there,
iam a 3rd yr student at dow university khi,pakistan.im working on my application for research electives at john hokins.i plan to go in dec this yr.iv been mailing professors for the past weeks with minimum reply and even those i did are unavailable.i have been mailing doctors in cardiology gen surgery n peds.have even tried callin some but its really hard to get hold of them..should i just submit my application with these prefernces that sum1 mite accpet me or should i go for field tht is easier to get into?or should i try for electives in other hospitals??are private research centres good?im sorry if im repeating sum questions...


----------



## MastahRiz

You should never limit yourself by only applying to one hospital. Just because Johns Hopkins has such a good reputation doesn't mean it's the only school out there for you to apply to. I think a lot of people who read this thread make that mistake. There are tons of other schools you should be applying to. To get a list of them, google the US top hospitals and apply to all of those schools anywhere on the top fifty or even top hundred.

If you don't get a response then there's not much you can do and yes, you should just send in your application anyway and hope for the best.

Private research centers probably aren't as good of an idea as centers that are actually affiliated with a university. Not sure if that's what you meant, but you should always try to get an elective at a center affiliated with an actual university in the US.


----------



## dcrossroads

dr. rehan thanks a lot for your help...


----------



## Mobzilla

finally! it took me almost 2 hrs to read this whole thread! and i apologize if im going to repeat a few questions but ill try to do that as little as possible.
1stly Rehan and MastahRiz you ppl did an excellent job in helping everyone out. i hope it works out for everyone. here go my questions in response to Rehans post:
1.which yr of med school did you do your elective in?
2.how long prior to your elective did you apply?
3.you still havent named the other hospital you visited. if this was supposed to be your research electives,were you gonna do ur clinical electives at the other hospital?
4.are you still a medical student or doing your residency now?
5.wat did it say on your LOR? research or clinical?
6.if its purely a research elective and you dont even get to go on rounds, is it still worth it? what exactly do u do in a research elective?
7.if you do extra stuff and help them out which isnt a part of ur elective program, do you pursue them to give you a document about it otherwise wats the point?
8.and since im interested in surgery is it wise to pursue that in USA because i dont have any preferences or should i just start from some other country?
ok thats it. i hope u can give me answers. and im currently in 4th yr. i did 2 clinical electives this yr but i havent done anythin abroad.


----------



## MastahRiz

You can do a research elective as early as your second year of mbbs. It may be possible to even do one in first year, but I don't know anyone who has done it, or if I would recommend it.

You need to apply for an elective at least four to six months in advance.

Yes, you should still do the elective even if it is purely a research elective, assuming that you don't have any other acceptances where you might be able to do more. In a research elective you usually do a lot of lab work or possibly animal testing.

I really don't know what you mean with question 7... what kind of extra stuff?

You can pursue surgery in the US but it'll be very difficult and there's a good chance that you won't get accepted without getting more experience first, but in the end it's always possible.


----------



## rishtyameena

You mentioned you might not recommend doing a research elective after first year. What are the cons?
Also, I was generally looking at the eligibility requirements for electives in US universities and from the ones that I've seen it says the students must be in their final year. Am I just looking at the wrong ones?


----------



## MastahRiz

rishtyameena said:


> You mentioned you might not recommend doing a research elective after first year. What are the cons?
> 
> Also, I was generally looking at the eligibility requirements for electives in US universities and from the ones that I've seen it says the students must be in their final year. Am I just looking at the wrong ones?


Good questions.

I wouldn't recommend going for a research elective until the middle or end of second year because simply put, you barely learn anything in first year. They've made the curriculum *very relaxed* for first years compared to what it used to be just two or three years ago. The course work has been cut nearly in half. You won't have finished learning any of the "basic sciences," which include both the first and second year. The classes are the same for the first two years, and include anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, embryology, and histology. By the time you finish your first year, you might know the anatomy of the upper limb, but not the abdomen, you may know the physiology of the heart, but not the endocrine system, etc. Once you've finished the first two years, then you have the knowledge of everything about the human body, including how, what, where, everything occurs- that's why they're called basic sciences. All the clinical information will come after that, because you can't learn what's abnormal before you know what's *normal*.

If you go for any type of elective right after first year, you'll really just end up making a fool out of yourself. You will get asked questions to see how much you know, and knowing less than half of basic sciences will hardly make you look like a medical student.

Electives are learning opportunities, but one of the main reasons people go for electives is to impress the doctors they'll work with, so that they can get a letter of recommendation or some other sort of help along the way. By the end of first year, most Pakistani medical students aren't even 20 years old, nor have they done any undergraduate degree, unlike all American medical students, who have at least one bachelors degree before starting med school.

You'll feel like a kid, and really be seen as one, too.

As for the requirements, what's written on a website and what actually is in play at some of these universities can be very different. For clinical electives though, yes, you have to be in your final year.

The requirements posted on websites are usually for clinical electives. Requirements for research electives are generally more lax, and often not even posted, because a lot of places have few, or no requirements at all.


----------



## rishtyameena

Thanks, that really put the concept of electives into perspective. 
Makes a lot more sense now.


----------



## tameem

thje information u r gvng here z so much useful and beneficial...well m a student of 4th yr here in pk n wanna do my electives in medicine subfield endocrinology...can u guide me ??wt to do???
ofcourse after knwn ur expereince in JHU, my first priority will be this university....n also rehan most of important z what ll be the total cost of doin an elective???

What is students security number?how can we get it?


----------



## MastahRiz

Asking for generic advice like 'please guide me' doesn't tell us at all how to help you. The entire process has already been covered and you should read it over carefully, but I will however, take a shot at your more specific questions.

First of all, just because Johns Hopkins is the university mentioned here in the thread, it doesn't mean that this is the only hospital that you have a chance of getting an elective at. There are lots of hospitals in the US that will accept you for clinical electives or research electives.

You can find that list here:

US Medical Colleges that Accept International Medical Students

Secondly, when you start applying for electives, make sure you're filling out an application which is for *foreign medical students*, not local US students. A *social security number* is something that only US citizens will have, which means you're probably filling out the wrong application. Most schools have a separate application for foreign/ overseas medical students.

The total cost including (variable) will come out to near or around 3,000 US dollars (180,000 Rupees). This includes:

Cost of travel
Cost of tuituin @ elective
Housing
Health Insurance + Malpractice Insurance
Meals


----------



## Rehan

tameem said:


> thje information u r gvng here z so much useful and beneficial...well m a student of 4th yr here in pk n wanna do my electives in medicine subfield endocrinology...can u guide me ??wt to do???
> ofcourse after knwn ur expereince in JHU, my first priority will be this university....n also rehan most of important z what ll be the total cost of doin an elective???
> 
> What is students security number?how can we get it?


Hello Tameem,

Although the members and moderators at Med Studentz do try to help each other out whenever possible, they should not be seen as an easy substitute for researching and finding answers on your own.

If you have a question regarding a specific university, you should contact the offices of that university rather than ask your question on this message board.

Another point, and this isn't only directed towards you but if you are asking for help on this message board, write your message in a manner that reflects positively upon yourself if you want to be taken seriously.

The way you wrote your question and the blatant disregard you've shown in your spelling and grammar makes people not take you seriously, much less with any modicum of professionalism. So please, try to write in a professional and proper manner on here, and you will find people will take you and your questions seriously.

As for your question, MastahRiz seems to have already answered it -- if you have any other questions specific to Johns Hopkins University -- go to their website and e-mail their Office of the Registrar. If you have other specific questions about being a Pakistani student and doing a research/clinical elective abroad, feel free to ask them here.

Best of luck in your career.


----------



## SaneelaAltaf

What's an observership? 
And isnt anyone here who's done electives abroad other than America? Like England or Canada?


----------



## MastahRiz

It's exactly what it sounds like. You don't *do *anything, you just observe doctor-patient interactions and possibly a few procedures.


----------



## Saadat

Ya surely Mastahriz is quite right. but the main thing is that you get the certificate of your obsership in that institution which surely help you to get residency later in same or any other institution. despite also u also get some experience.


----------



## Mobzilla

what about electives in England? Isn't anyone doing that anymore?


----------



## sausi.aiims

hey rehan,
i just now joined the forum, and found this thread v useful.
as u said, i've mailed to different professors regarding research eleectives in JHU today morning and one of them has replied to me that he can only accomodate folks for longer period of time, say 1-2 yrs.
i've got interest in orthopedic surgery. please tell me whether doing a research elective in orthopedic surgery from JHU (and if i m lucky enough to get a LOR) would help me getting residency in orthopedics in some good college in US???
i also mailed to harvard (fee is too high o'er there 3200US$/month). they have just put an autoreply system. they have a sysytem of fee waiver but i dont find anyone whom i can ask about the criteria for that. their computer juss sends same autoreply for every mail.


----------



## sausi.aiims

MastahRiz said:


> I think the clinical elective would do you more good than the research elective, especially since the clinical elective is in such a competitive field like cardiology. Then again, you should try and find out what project you'll be working on if you do go for the research elective because it may very well be a huge once in a life-time kind of project (though, that's rare). If it happens that the research is in a really ground breaking aspect of Ortho then maybe you should consider the research elective instead, but otherwise I think you're safe going for the clinical elective. Six weeks is plenty of time btw, and you're right, it's hard to go for electives in the final year of mbbs.
> 
> You're also right that research anywhere is better than no research at all, but research in Pakistan will only make your residency application better than other Pakistani graduates, not bring you into a competitive tier of American graduates as well, whereas enough research in American universities just might.
> 
> Congrats on the elective acceptance.


hey MastahRiz,
please also tell me, as u say that clinical elective is better than research elective, if i m getting clinical elective in some mediocre university e.g. university of yale or brown university (may also get clinical elective in internal medicine in a good uni like UCLA) and on the other side i am getting research elective in John hopkins uni. what is the better option?


----------



## fahdi

hey sausi.aiims,

Who says that Yale and Brown are mediocre medical schools? They are among the top!! Yale ranks 8th in whole US among best medical schools, and Johns Hopkins is not the only place to go for electives. If you get an oppurtunity for clinical electives, go for it.


----------



## MastahRiz

Lately I've been hearing that research electives might be better than clinical electives, but only if you're guaranteed to get your name on a paper that gets published. Otherwise, I'd say go for clinical electives.

In the end, the number of publications that you have will definitely win out over how much clinical experience you've gotten in the eyes of residency directors.

Like I said, this is something that I've only recently come to know.


----------



## sausi.aiims

hey mastahriz,
thanks for the answer. please tell me as you say, there should be surity getting your name on publication; how can we make sure that our name gonna be there on the publication.
Wont it be offending to the faculty, if i just ask them whether they give me surity of getting my name on publication?
And please tell me if name of the university really plays a significant role? As, if i m getting elective in Harvard [Rank #1] in Clinical field (fee= 3500$/month) and if i am getting clinical elective in University of california, san diego [Rank #8] or Uni of texas southwestern [Rank #17] both of the latter cost me around 300$/month (as fee), then is it wise enough to spend such large amount of money just because you are going to Harvard?


----------



## MastahRiz

You're right, you can't ask the faculty if you're guaranteed a publication. The best way to decide this on your own is to find out what you'll be doing before you get there, and check online to see how often that dr or his department actually publishes papers.

Yes, the name of the university matters, and yes you should follow the ranking system for clinical electives.


----------



## hunter

_hi rehan,_
_it was so nice of you to share your experience at jhu._
_which medical college are you studying in?SHIFA?and which year you were in when you did your first elective?_
_I also applied at jhu for research elective in oncology but couldnt get one,at that time i was in 2nd year,and now iam at the end of 3rd year iam considering seriously again to apply,so i wanted to ask that should i apply for research elective or clinical elective?and do you know any places in NEWYORK where i could get elective easily either research or clinical?_


----------



## Rehan

Hunter,

I was in 2nd year when I did that elective at JHU and yes I am studying at Shifa. If you are at the end of your third year I would encourage you to apply again for a research elective (as most places will not grant a clinical elective until you are in your final year). 

Mt. Sinai or Cornell University are two places that come to mind where you could try to find a research elective if you want some place in New York.

Just keep trying -- sooner or later you will get one.


----------



## hasan85

Dear Rehan & the rest of my friends,

hi, hasan here from sind medical college, karachi. wat a gr8 site!!! hats off to rehan.

I'm a final yr. student and looking for a clinical elective in surgery in any U.S medical college, which is affordable and well reputated.

u people are well aware that its tough to get into surgery in the u.s but its my passion and i want to practice it in the u.s. i am trying hard to look for medical colleges which offer electives in surgery but most of them don't, to international students..

1) Can anyone of you there please tell me the names of u.s medical schools that offer clinical electives in surgery to int. students?

2) i will be applying for march 2009, right after my final yr. exams. can i do this? becuz final yr. is tough nd we hav to study a lot without any vaccations in the middle. i will send my application during my final yr. is that acceptable? want ur thoughts on this.

i'll b really grtful to u people if u kindly guide me in this regard.

May ALLAH Bless


----------



## MedGrunt

hasan85 said:


> I'm a final yr. student and looking for a clinical elective in surgery in any U.S medical college, which is affordable and well reputated.
> 
> 2) i will be applying for march 2009, right after my final yr. exams. can i do this? becuz final yr. is tough nd we hav to study a lot without any vaccations in the middle. i will send my application during my final yr. is that acceptable? want ur thoughts on this.



Electives are designed for medical *students*. It might be possible to find a research elective but trying to find a clinical elective after graduation will be nearly impossible.


----------



## kimi

hey hasan
when I went for clinical electives, there were some indian students who were about to finish there internship(house job), and still they got accepted for electives, so if you just get the letter from your medical college that you are still a medical student (since you are in a government college, you won`t be having any problem in getting it), it would do it for you.
Getting a clinical elective in surgery would be a tough option since there are only few schools that actually allow international students without steps 1 and toefl, and the competition will always going to be tough for those which do. but you can always try.
So you can go for clinical electives even after you finish your med college.

Wish you best of luck!


----------



## hunter

Rehan said:


> Hunter,
> 
> I was in 2nd year when I did that elective at JHU and yes I am studying at Shifa. If you are at the end of your third year I would encourage you to apply again for a research elective (as most places will not grant a clinical elective until you are in your final year).
> 
> Mt. Sinai or Cornell University are two places that come to mind where you could try to find a research elective if you want some place in New York.
> 
> Just keep trying -- sooner or later you will get one.


 
_hye rehan,_
_yeah i will keep on trying,infact i will have one more go at JHU.if i apply now means its almost April,do i have any chance of getting elective in July,or August at Jhu? And if i talk to three departments according to my prefrences at a time would that be alright? and one more thing did you have any elective experience at home before going abroad or any type of other volunteer experience which you might have mentioned in your mail while talking to your teacher? and this type of experience do make your chances bright dont they?and how much time does it take for one to get Visa after invitation letter from the university?_


----------



## hasan85

Hi Kimi,

Hasan here, thanks for a positive reply. i really did get some encouragement from ur post. I have just begun my final yr. at smc. My final yr. will end in feb 2009. i'll b having vaccations in august 2008 but it won't be possible for me to go for electives to u.s in august as it is very near. therefore, iv planned to go in march 2009 right after my final yr. Obviously i'll apply in my final yr.

Can u plz tell me names of the medical schools in u.s which accept int. students without usmle and toefl for clinical electives in surgery?

Also, where did u go for ur electives and in what field?

I might need ur guidance in future regarding this. Looking forward 4 ur help.

Have a nice time.


----------



## MastahRiz

http://medstudentz.com/medical-stud...nternational-students-clinical-electives.html


----------



## Aurasatreya

Hello, Rehan
I was interested in applying for Johns Hopkins for a clerkship...
Wanted to know if the clerkship as such is free or paid and other costs involved..just a rough estimate would do
Thank you in anticipation of your response.

Auras


----------



## [email protected]

Aurasatreya said:


> Hello, Rehan
> I was interested in applying for Johns Hopkins for a clerkship...
> Wanted to know if the clerkship as such is free or paid and other costs involved..just a rough estimate would do
> Thank you in anticipation of your response.
> 
> Auras


For 5 weeks of research elective, this is the least that you have to bear

Registration Fee: 250$
Health Insurance: 210$
Airfare: 1300-1500$
Accomodation: 500$
Other expeses: 300$

total:2700-3000$


----------



## nikmad

#laugh Thanks guys. that info wud help so much.


----------



## Aurasatreya

Thanks a bunch Faizan...that was very helpful...


----------



## hunter

_hi_
_can anyone please tell me what is the difference between B-1 and J-1 Visa?And is there anyone with elective experience at MOUNT SINAI NEWYORK? _


----------



## kimi

Hey Hasan,

There are not many med schools which accept students without steps or toefl, but the information posted on their website does not mean that they are always going to follow it, I have seen students (without steps 1) going for electives even for the universities which officially require steps 1. So just keep on trying and you will definitely find a position.

You said in one of your posts that u want to do surgery electives at an affordable place. Well if you are planning to go for surgery in the US, you got to be prepared for such expenses!! Money and visa are big issues when you are applying for surgical residency. Because finding a categorical position straight away is quite tough, although prelim is a good way to enter the system but they do eat up 1 year of you J-1 visa (max of 7 years) and you won’t get time for your fellowship. Secondly if you decide to do a research fellowship sort of thing before residency, it is difficult to find a paid position, you will better be able to find positions if you are willing to do work voluntarily.

I did my electives at Baylor and North Carolina in cardiology and gastroenterology.


----------



## hunter

kimi said:


> Hey Hasan,
> 
> There are not many med schools which accept students without steps or toefl, but the information posted on their website does not mean that they are always going to follow it, I have seen students (without steps 1) going for electives even for the universities which officially require steps 1. So just keep on trying and you will definitely find a position.
> 
> You said in one of your posts that u want to do surgery electives at an affordable place. Well if you are planning to go for surgery in the US, you got to be prepared for such expenses!! Money and visa are big issues when you are applying for surgical residency. Because finding a categorical position straight away is quite tough, although prelim is a good way to enter the system but they do eat up 1 year of you J-1 visa (max of 7 years) and you won?t get time for your fellowship. Secondly if you decide to do a research fellowship sort of thing before residency, it is difficult to find a paid position, you will better be able to find positions if you are willing to do work voluntarily.
> 
> I did my electives at Baylor and North Carolina in cardiology and gastroenterology.


 
hye kimi,

do you have any clue about Mount Sinai,do they require step-1 cleared?They do require basic subjects,(that have to be cleared in step -1) cleared at home school,but if some one has cleared some subjects and others he/she is still studying would there be any chance of being accepted. 
and how did you obtain malpractice insurance,any useful website regarding this,it would be very helpful if you share that with us, what about Visa which Visa did you get when you first Visited USA?


Thank you.


----------



## [email protected]

Mount Sinai does not require steps 1 cleared for electives. But the issue is that it offers J1 visa, if you go there on J1 visa,you are bound not to enter the US again for next 2 years once you get back to your home country. B1 is the visa of choice, if you get 5 year multiple visa, u can go there for electives and for your CS exams on that same visa. I would not recommend anyone to go electives on J1 visa, it will waste your precious time becuse you will have to stay in your native country. You should try to find some other university for doing electives, go on either B1 or F1. In which medical college you are?

Mount sinai offers malpractice insurance but try for some other medical school.


----------



## hunter

[email protected] said:


> Mount Sinai does not require steps 1 cleared for electives. But the issue is that it offers J1 visa, if you go there on J1 visa,you are bound not to enter the US again for next 2 years once you get back to your home country. B1 is the visa of choice, if you get 5 year multiple visa, u can go there for electives and for your CS exams on that same visa. I would not recommend anyone to go electives on J1 visa, it will waste your precious time becuse you will have to stay in your native country. You should try to find some other university for doing electives, go on either B1 or F1. In which medical college you are?
> 
> Mount sinai offers malpractice insurance but try for some other medical school.


Apart from Mount Sinai,i have things shaping for me at two other places,so if suppose i get B-1
multiple Visa by doing an elective at either of those places,would i be able to go to Mount Sinai,
on B-1 Visa,or i will have to apply again for J-1 Visa?And if apply again for J-1 Visa would it 
effect,my B-1 Visa status?And how much time period is J-1 Visa for?


----------



## [email protected]

if you get B1 and go for electives, you wont be able to do elective at mount sinai, because J1 visa is their requirement for doing electives. why are u dying to go for mount sinai?? no doubt it is a good medical school but certainly not among the tops. If you get J1 visa after B1 visa, it will nullify your B1 visa status. i dont know about J1 visa but B1 visa takes from 10 days to 4 months to one year, it depends on your luck!!


----------



## hunter

[email protected] said:


> if you get B1 and go for electives, you wont be able to do elective at mount sinai, because J1 visa is their requirement for doing electives. why are u dying to go for mount sinai?? no doubt it is a good medical school but certainly not among the tops. If you get J1 visa after B1 visa, it will nullify your B1 visa status. i dont know about J1 visa but B1 visa takes from 10 days to 4 months to one year, it depends on your luck!!


 
Mount Sinai is the only place in Newyork where i got acceptance,and the reason of my prefering it is becausei have relatives and friends in Newyork,so it would have been alot of assistance to me to do elective at Mount Sinai.any how i will try at Cornell because correct me if iam wrong these
are the only two places in Newyork that accept foreign students without step 1.
If you are online then kindly come to the chat room,may be we can talk there,i had to ask few things about jhu,
Thanks


----------



## sausi.aiims

Hi Friends,
I just came back from USA, completing my clinical electives in Johns Hopkins University and another one in New York Medical College (Westchester Medical Center). The US Health System, though really very costly, is really good. People are helpful and very softspoken. Patient - Doctor Dialogue is very friendly.
It had been a good experience altogether working in US medical Setting. I had been on the B-1.
Looking for any questions if anyone has regarding my Experience...


----------



## Effieand

*How is it possible to contact the faculty directly?*

I was just wandering how is it possible to contact directly the faculty of the institutions and ask them about acceptance issues, since in most well-respected universities it is clearly stated that international students who wish to apply for electives should contact with the students' registrar (or whoever is in charge), BUT NOT with the faculty or program coordinators??????#confused


----------



## sausi.aiims

Effieand said:


> I was just wandering how is it possible to contact directly the faculty of the institutions and ask them about acceptance issues, since in most well-respected universities it is clearly stated that international students who wish to apply for electives should contact with the students' registrar (or whoever is in charge), BUT NOT with the faculty or program coordinators??????#confused


Yes, you are right Effie. These are the rules, but if you are contacting the faculty directly, and they give a recommendation to registrar to get you an elective under him, obviously Registrar cannot say no. That is the reason, why they say not to contact faculty, so that everything goes through perfect channel, and ppl dont keep disturbing faculty. The faculty under whom I worked, used to recieve almost 15-20 such mails everyday.#happy


----------



## Ryan

hey... thanks for sharing your experience sausi.aiims. you said that the faculty with whom you used to work got 20 emails on daily basis, i wanted to know what was there in your email that he picked you up?? and can u also elaborate in which department you worked in? and what was the level of faculty with whom you worked? as in prof. or assit. prof. or asso. prof.??


----------



## sausi.aiims

Ryan said:


> hey... thanks for sharing your experience sausi.aiims. you said that the faculty with whom you used to work got 20 emails on daily basis, i wanted to know what was there in your email that he picked you up?? and can u also elaborate in which department you worked in? and what was the level of faculty with whom you worked? as in prof. or assit. prof. or asso. prof.??


Hi Ryan,
There was a conference in AIIMS (My college) in which i had been working as a volunteer. There I met the professor from JHU as one of the chief spokespersons. In the lunch hour, I met him and told him about my interests in his field and talked to him about my previous experience and my goals. This was merely a 5-7 minutes talk as (obviously) he was very busy with other ppl. Then at last I asked him politely if I could be in touch with him for future guidance. He happily gave me his visiting card. I just got in contact with him through e-mails for next 3-4 months when I finally asked him if I could get an opportunity to have rotation in JH. He mailed the Registrar office and arranged the elective under one of the asso professors in the department.
This is how did I get the Clinical elective. #happy 
Keep Trying and keep looking for the opprtunities.
May God help You!
Saurabh


----------



## Smeer

Hey everybody,

I know attaining competitive residencies in the U.S. is getting tougher and tougher by the day, and that in order to stay on top of the game a lot of foreign medical students are trying to get research electives earlier and earlier. I was wondering if it's possible, at least for a Pakistani medical student, to attain such an elective at the end of his/her first year even if he/she doesn't have a record of professional exam results atm. Personally speaking, Professional Exams at KE are held in November and I doubt that they'll have the results and transcripts ready by December when I'm expecting to leave for my next break back to the States. Would it be better to wait until the next summer to shoot for some research or is it possible to get a research spot without any academic record to show?


----------



## tapical_mwit

hi rohan

you ve given a helpful information. thankyou for that
and i just have a Q that is it highly competitive for an aplication
how many student they accepted each year. and do i have to have a very high score in my transcript. thank you

pat


----------



## pro786

hello, i am a second year medical student now visiting USA o vacations. I am following a cardiologist in a nearby hospital. I got to see some cathertherizations and cardiac surgeries. Though i am only a second year student, i do not have the vast knowledge to impress the doctors, and i am bogged down with questions. So at the end of my elective, do i have my doctor fill out a lor or and receive some sort of ceritficate from the hospital showing i worked there? 

Rehan, i read that u went to JHU in 2nd year as well, my question comes, how did u manage to please your doctors if u did? and what exactly did u do in ure electives as a second year student and what did u have a doctor fill out (form etc) and did u receive any paper from him saying u have worked there? please guide me, thnx.


----------



## MastahRiz

pro786 said:


> hello, i am a second year medical student now visiting USA o vacations. I am following a cardiologist in a nearby hospital. I got to see some cathertherizations and cardiac surgeries. Though i am only a second year student, i do not have the vast knowledge to impress the doctors, and i am bogged down with questions. So at the end of my elective, do i have my doctor fill out a lor or and receive some sort of ceritficate from the hospital showing i worked there?
> 
> Rehan, i read that u went to JHU in 2nd year as well, my question comes, how did u manage to please your doctors if u did? and what exactly did u do in ure electives as a second year student and what did u have a doctor fill out (form etc) and did u receive any paper from him saying u have worked there? please guide me, thnx.


You should try to work there again if you can, after learning the things you need to know. It's generally a terrible idea to do electives that early unless you've already studied at the very least all of the basic sciences involved with a field. If you're going to do a cardiology elective, then you should only do it if you've already read and memorized the anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, embryology, histology, at least general pathology, and maybe if you have time, some pharm. Otherwise, yes, you won't know anything and you'll be an observer at best.

I'd suggest you hold off on getting anything just yet- you should probably prepare better for it next time and then see about getting evaluation forms or letters of rec.



Smeer said:


> Hey everybody,
> 
> I know attaining competitive residencies in the U.S. is getting tougher and tougher by the day, and that in order to stay on top of the game a lot of foreign medical students are trying to get research electives earlier and earlier. I was wondering if it's possible, at least for a Pakistani medical student, to attain such an elective at the end of his/her first year even if he/she doesn't have a record of professional exam results atm. Personally speaking, Professional Exams at KE are held in November and I doubt that they'll have the results and transcripts ready by December when I'm expecting to leave for my next break back to the States. Would it be better to wait until the next summer to shoot for some research or is it possible to get a research spot without any academic record to show?


Can't believe I missed your post.

You can definitely always apply for a research elective, regardless of what record you have or don't have, as long as you're in med school. Clinical electives are a different story, but research is any lab rat's game.

Sorry for the late reply.


----------



## king khan

is rsearch elective from a top renouned med school in us an absolute necassity????? wht if i get a chance in a second grade or not a top of the line med school so wil all the effort and expense worthwhile!!!!! im a local (pakistani)


----------



## MastahRiz

Any elective is better than no elective at all


----------



## SaneelaAltaf

Can I join The Queen Mary University while I'm in my second year of mbbs? Will I be able to get admission in the 2nd year or will I have to start over again?


----------



## dieanotherday

Hey guys. My question is directed to those who have done their research Electives at some point abroad. I recently came across a few posts/articles by medical students online (while I was googling research Electives for my chosen disciple) in which they have stated that one month is too less a time to achieve anything substantial in a research Elective. And that in order to fully attain something out of the research, you need to be involved with it from the scratch, like a few months so that you've witnessed the ups and downs and the so-called glitches. To make it more confusing, some said that you haven't really been involved with it that much so as to get a decent recommendation. I have just passed my second year of medschool from Karachi, and have made up my mind to do a research Elective from USA in neurology or nephrology in June/July of 2009. But posts like the one I mentioned above from different people seem to be discouraging. Or perhaps I am reading on this too much. So my question is, if you think 5 weeks for a research Elective would suffice? Specially when I want to get published in a journal? Seniors keep emphasizing that we do so, (get published i.e.) for it matters when you apply for a residency.
Secondly those who have been there, whats the average cost for a research Elective, say at Hopkin's? I know this sounds vague, but I just need an estimate. I read somewhere in this thread that $3,000 was the average cost. But when I quoted this to my Parents, they thought there must be other hidden costs of food etc. not covered in this since this amount seems less for an Elective in US. Please brief me a little on this. Thanks!



Rehan said:


> After finding e-mail addresses of all the people who I would write to regarding the opportunity for a research elective I drafted an e-mail in which I could change the names of the physicians easily and send out to multiple recipients. In the e-mail I was sure to include:
> which year of medical school I was in at the time
> how much previous clinical/research experience I had already obtained at my home school
> the fact that I would be responsible for all costs associated w/ housing, transportation, and registration (if required)
> and that I am very interested in the field in which I am applying and am seriously considering pursuing it as a career choice


I am just about to begin sending applications to various different Hospitals in USA. But I have absolutely no previous clinical or research experience that I obtained from my school at this stage (Point 2 in your post). Would that matter anyway? I mean I am doing a clinical Elective in Internal Medicine at Liaquat National Hospital which will start on the 7th, so should I mention that already? 
Plus, I am applying for June/July. Is it too early to send it, cause Rizwan has stressed a lot that its never too early? The reason I am sending it now is cause I am afraid I might have visa issues since I have never travelled to States before. So I merely wish to keep a margin if my visa process takes longer than expected.


----------



## sahilmunjal

Hey everyone..

I am presently in my 3rd year in Delhi.I am planning to do clerkship in psychiatry in the month of december in brown medical school.I saw a lot of threads and could not find a answer to:-
1.What is their evaluation procedure?-as psychiatry is a minor subject,my clinical skills and knowledge are very less.
2.What is the guarantee that after paying $3,500 I will get a good or even satisfactory letter of recomendation.Can they write I was very poor in the evaluation?
3.Should I apply in an elective which I have more knowledge about,eg.cardiology/gastro or the one i am more interested in,eg-psychiatry.
4.If anyone has done clerkship in psychiatry,please share their experiences.


----------



## dieanotherday

sahilmunjal said:


> Hey everyone..
> 
> I am presently in my 3rd year in Delhi.I am planning to do clerkship in psychiatry in the month of december in brown medical school.I saw a lot of threads and could not find a answer to:-
> 1.What is their evaluation procedure?-as psychiatry is a minor subject,my clinical skills and knowledge are very less.
> 2.What is the guarantee that after paying $3,500 I will get a good or even satisfactory letter of recomendation.Can they write I was very poor in the evaluation?
> 3.Should I apply in an elective which I have more knowledge about,eg.cardiology/gastro or the one i am more interested in,eg-psychiatry.
> 4.If anyone has done clerkship in psychiatry,please share their experiences.


Well everyone I know who went for an elective/clerkship did get one. It'll be absurd to not receive one. There's no such guarantee per se, but I do believe that you will most certainly get one from the Doctor who has accepted you by the end of your clerkship. At times, it is signed by the Head of the department instead that carries more weightage. And I wonder what makes you think about them grading you as 'poor', cause that hardly ever happens. Be involved, committed, and give your best to it, try to impress the Doctor as much as possible. Don't just think about the money, (which I know is a lot frankly), cause it'll be worth it when you learn so much from that experience, the exposure and ofcourse there's the LOR. And it'll be best to pursue your field of interest. (Though thats mostly the field where you possess more knowledge) I would recommend going for a research Elective too btw. But thats just a suggestion. Good luck.


----------



## sahilmunjal

Thanks a lot dieanotherday

Sorry for being too inquisitive.......but i need to know this:-
As i am in 3rd yr in india,I am currently studying ent,ophtha and spm.I have completed 2 months of core clinical postings-surgery,gynae,medicine,paeds as these start with the 2nd year(which is 1.5 yr long).I will pass them in my 4th year.
I am planning to go for clerkship in the month of december ie. after finishing my 3rd year and before starting of 4th(technically i'll be in 4th).
Would I be eligible for clerkships???I know a lot of my peers who have gone in the same period... 
Is it acceptable or they have all faked their application forms as nowhere in the forms they ask u about what exactly u r doing in ur med school....


Thanx


----------



## MastahRiz

As long as you're a medical student, you're eligible for electives and clerkships. Once you graduate, it becomes a lot harder to line up anything other than an observership.


----------



## theahsen007

hi,
can anybody plz tell me anything about the research elective in neurology.i am a student of 2nd year.i cant go for clinical elective at this time,so i want to go for research elective.can u give me any info.??


----------



## sahilmunjal

John Hopkins offers research oppourtinities for foreign students.Hey,does anyone know colleges other than John Hopkins to offer research oppourtinities to IMG's??????


----------



## Smeer

sahilmunjal said:


> John Hopkins offers research oppourtinities for foreign students.Hey,does anyone know colleges other than John Hopkins to offer research oppourtinities to IMG's??????


This link might be helpful. It was posted on one of the other threads.


----------



## w.annie

hi,
I hope my email finds you i the best of health and spirit,
I have graduated in year 2007 december,,,, did one years internship(house job) and now i am preparing for steps,,,, want to do some observership or sub internship in US to add US experience in my Cv,,,,, can you please guide me,,,,, clinical research and electives are only for med students,,,, what do i do?????? please help me out


----------



## snehthegreat

Hi!!
I'm thinking of going for research elective in John Hopkins Medicine Dept in April 2010!
I can't find the contact of proffessors whom i should contact!
Plz help!!
SNeh


----------



## Smeer

I just went through this entire thread again -- just wanted to say it's a goldmine of great info. for anyone who's looking for clinical/research electives! Thanks Rehan, MastahRiz, and everyone else for all your great replies #laugh.

Sorry if this is kind of a repeated question, but say you're attending a medical college in Pakistan where it's a 5-year program -- do you guys think it would be a waste of time to apply for a clinical elective by filling out the official forms and submitting the required documentation of the respective medical schools without prior contact of a faculty member at that medical school? I ask this because, as stated many times before in this thread, basically all medical schools in America require international visiting students to be in (or close to) their final year of medical school. I know the stated rules can be relaxed when it comes to reality -- but is there any realistic chance for say a student at the end of his/her second year or even half way through third year (in light of a 5-year program) to be accepted into a clinical elective without first getting a solid "ok" from a faculty member via email? Or would it be a waste of time because when they see that you're in 2nd or 3rd year they won't even read your application?

I know that the above concerns don't apply to research electives, my question is just regarding clinical electives.

Thanks again!


----------



## MastahRiz

My first clinical elective was when I was halfway through my 2nd year, however I set it up after arriving for the research elective which was what I had actually been accepted for.


----------



## < sara >

MastahRiz said:


> My first clinical elective was when I was halfway through my 2nd year, however I set it up after arriving for the research elective which was what I had actually been accepted for.


Hey mastahriz can you tell us about your first clinical elective.. where you went and how did you set it up?


----------



## MastahRiz

Information like that is classified.

Well, not really, but I don't exactly share it publicly. I've had too many people that I barely even know trying to contact the exact same doctors I worked with and trying to use my name as a reference, which is just poor professionalism on their part and also tarnishes my name there.

What I will tell you is that places like USC, JHU, NYU, MGH, and a few others are very open to elective students.

You can check out their websites for information on how to apply for an elective there or follow the outline given in the beginning of this thread.


----------



## < sara >

Yeah you are absolutely right.. that is poor professionalism.. I see where you're coming from...

Thanks for the advice


----------



## Rehan

Smeer said:


> Sorry if this is kind of a repeated question, but say you're attending a medical college in Pakistan where it's a 5-year program -- do you guys think it would be a waste of time to apply for a clinical elective by filling out the official forms and submitting the required documentation of the respective medical schools without prior contact of a faculty member at that medical school? I ask this because, as stated many times before in this thread, basically all medical schools in America require international visiting students to be in (or close to) their final year of medical school. I know the stated rules can be relaxed when it comes to reality -- but is there any realistic chance for say a student at the end of his/her second year or even half way through third year (in light of a 5-year program) to be accepted into a clinical elective without first getting a solid "ok" from a faculty member via email? Or would it be a waste of time because when they see that you're in 2nd or 3rd year they won't even read your application?
> 
> I know that the above concerns don't apply to research electives, my question is just regarding clinical electives.
> 
> Thanks again!


Good question Smeer. 

You're right about there being a much stricter set of rules for clinical electives as compared to research electives. Most places in the US will not take you unless you are either in your last year of medical school and have completed your "core clinical clerkships" already at your home school. Core clerkships include medicine, surgery, pediatrics, ob/gyn and usually but not always psychiatry. Since most places will tell you to not bother applying if you contact the registrar directly, the best thing to do would be to get in touch with a faculty member directly and ask for the chance to work with them independently in a clerkship role.

You will have to carry malpractice insurance however if you are planning on doing anything than simply observing. Sometimes the hospital you're working at will provide some policy for medical students, however this is more the exception than the rule. When US students do electives at other hospitals, their home school is paying their malpractice insurance so it's never an issue. For foreign students, they may have a policy, otherwise you will have to buy one independently. Be sure to find out the amount of coverage that is required. 

When I did an away rotation at University of California, San Francisco, they required me to carry a "$1 million/$3 million" policy which means it covers up to $1 million per incident, with a max of $3 million per year. It cost me around $1200 for one year worth of coverage. There are companies that will give you malpractice insurance by the month though for around $300/month.

Hope this helps!


----------



## mrazi

*Proof*

Does the medical school issue a certificate or something as proof that you did electives there?


----------



## MastahRiz

Yes, you'll have to ask for one.


----------



## mrazi

*Research/clinical elective*

Ok so im a second yr student and am trying to get electives in the USA (hopefully summer 2010). from what I have learned it is impossible to get clinical elective unless im in 4th or 5th yr. 

Now can someone explain to me what a research elective is? is it the same as doing research at any school or does is it have to be related to a medical school program? 

Also, i got family back in USA who are doctors, can I just "shadow" them around in hospitals? would it be of any help in process for residency?


----------



## doc.w3s

hey Im a 3rd year student and I was hoping to get an elective (summer 2010). I cant get in contact with professor. Could anyone help ????


----------



## Acidian

I went though the whole thread (finally).
It was highly informative and most of the information is priceless.

I have a couple of questions to ask (and unless they slipped, I've not seen them anywhere on this thread).

First of all I am a 3rd year Medical Student from Malta, Europe studying at the University of Malta.
Do my chances of getting an elective (be it research or clinical) increase since I am European?

Secondly, I have a US citizenship but I've never lived in the US and I've never studied in the US.
Do I qualify as an international student or as a US student?

Lastly, is my Edexcel O level in English at Grade A enough to prove I am fluent in English?

Thank you so much for all this information. I understand if you are unable to answer some or all of my questions.


----------



## nicodemus

Hi to all forumers... I'm new around here, please to make your acquaintance...

I'm a 3rd year medical student from Malaysia... Basically, I have done some clerkship & presented some cases but not on a daily basis... It's like once every 2 months or so... We're not expected to do clerkship on a daily basis in 3rd year, it only starts in 4th year... So is my experience sufficient for me to apply for a clinical elective in US?

If it is not, would a research elective be useful to me for my future career? I'm very much interested in the subjects of cardiology, neurology, microbiology, immunology & haematology...

Anyway, if I were to apply for elective in US, some unis stated very clearly that correspondence with the faculty members are not allowed... All applications must be through the registrar... If I contact the faculty members and they agree, will the registrar reject my application?

One more thing... I have a few unis on my list... Can anyone recommend any other suitable unis for me? 

1. John Hopkins
2. Harvard
3. Uni of Michigan
4. Uni of Pittsburg
5. Cornell (quite expensive to me, esp the housing, don't think I'll apply here though)

Thanks! #laugh


----------



## MastahRiz

The type of elective you should do is largely dependent on how much time you can spend there. For anything 2 months or less, I would suggest clinical.

Research is largely beneficial if you can get published on a paper or abstract, and more importantly on an important paper, which will usually belong to a research project that may extend well over 1 year's time-- meaning it may be difficult for you to get involved in. Overall, chances of publications are low, unless you really have a lot of time to invest in a project. For this reason, I'd recommend you look towards doing clinical electives more often than research, unless you have something like 3 months or more to spend abroad.

Universities will always tell you to go through the registrar's office, however if you're resourceful enough to find email addresses of faculty members and get a positive response from them, no registrar's office will deny you your elective.

The list you've compiled is a good start. You could also look at University of Southwestern Medical Center, or perhaps other hospitals in Texas.


----------



## nicodemus

Thanks a lot for the advice MastahRiz...

But do you think the faculty members will accept a 3rd year with minimal clinical experience for electives? How should I convince them that I'm suitable for a clinical elective?

And one more question please... Do we have to pay for tuition fees for the clinical electives? If I'm not mistaken, some schools require students to pay tuition fees.. But I thought electives are tuition fee free... Uni of Pittsburg is one of them...

Thanks for the replies...


----------



## MastahRiz

If you know basic history taking and general examination skills, that's really all you need. If you aren't familiar with these skills, then you can still apply as a clinical observer.

Most places will require you to pay, I don't know any off the top of my head that won't.


----------



## nicodemus

Thanks for the reply... I think I have the basic skills although I'm not that fully well-versed with them yet... Still need some practise...

Well, I'll try to apply for it and see what can I get... Really dream of some overseas exposure and to see how it is done there... Wish me luck! #laugh


----------



## comet

sausi.aiims said:


> Yes, you are right Effie. These are the rules, but if you are contacting the faculty directly, and they give a recommendation to registrar to get you an elective under him, obviously Registrar cannot say no. That is the reason, why they say not to contact faculty, so that everything goes through perfect channel, and ppl dont keep disturbing faculty. The faculty under whom I worked, used to recieve almost 15-20 such mails everyday.#happy




Hello everyone I this is my first post and m glad to be on this informative forum.. unlimited cheers to rehan for his wonderful information...Hey sausi,, first of all congrats for your wonderful feats and i really appreciate you sharing your experiences and volunteering to answer our questions.. I got in touch with a professor in JHU who is very positive to have me for research but he said he will have to ask the education office if I am allowed or not.. he also said that if the decision were his it was YES but it is not upto him... now isnt that ironical i mean can an education office say no to him if he is really wanting to have me... and


----------



## MastahRiz

It's just a formality, but JHU is starting to limit the number of foreign medical students who do electives there per year. Hopefully it'll all work out.


----------



## Acidian

If I study abroad but have US citizenship I am still classified as a foreign medical student, right?


----------



## MastahRiz

Yeah, that's correct.


----------



## comet

MastahRiz said:


> It's just a formality, but JHU is starting to limit the number of foreign medical students who do electives there per year. Hopefully it'll all work out.


Thanks MastahRiz for the quick reply, I just wanted to further ask one thing... The professor emailed me ten days ago that he would have to ask the education office and since then I received no feedback from him despite myself repeatedly sending him the reminder emails,so should I wait for the professor asking to the education office for me or I better start the process of filling out and mailing them their application form with other documents (which would take atleast a week for the deans signature and approval ) stating that I have been approved by the respective professor of your institute. #confused


----------



## MastahRiz

I would wait to hear back from the professor that you contacted. Keep in mind that they are very busy and it takes them time to take care of things like that. Try not to email too frequently, otherwise you may seem pushy and the professor may change his mind completely. In a situation like this, I would wait between 3 to 5 days before sending another email. If possible, get his secretary's email address and also ask her to follow up.

I would not recommend filling out all the forms and trying to apply by saying that you've already been accepted because it may cause more harm than good.

Try to wait it out a few more days and see if you get a reply.

Also, don't limit to yourself to JHU, there are a number of institutions that will accept you for clinical electives. You can try at Mount Saini in New York, or UT Houston, or others.


----------



## comet

*sad news*



MastahRiz said:


> I would wait to hear back from the professor that you contacted. Keep in mind that they are very busy and it takes them time to take care of things like that. Try not to email too frequently, otherwise you may seem pushy and the professor may change his mind completely. In a situation like this, I would wait between 3 to 5 days before sending another email. If possible, get his secretary's email address and also ask her to follow up.
> 
> I would not recommend filling out all the forms and trying to apply by saying that you've already been accepted because it may cause more harm than good.
> 
> Try to wait it out a few more days and see if you get a reply.
> 
> Also, don't limit to yourself to JHU, there are a number of institutions that will accept you for clinical electives. You can try at Mount Saini in New York, or UT Houston, or others.


Hi MastahRiz,
 Unfortunately the professor of JHU could not arrange the elective for me, this is very sad and dejecting on my side, but I am keeping a quote of his reply so that every one else can know the present scenario over there and make their own way out. Following was his final reply to me,

 "I have spoken to everyone who would be involved, and you will not be able to work here, unfortunately. The visa and security issues are overwhelming, and the requests for working with us from our own students is so great, that we give them primary consideration. 
I am sorry if I misled you. If it were up to me, I would be fine with working with you. But it is not my choice".


I have no clue how to reply him now and whether still can I expect something from his side...#sad#sad


----------



## MastahRiz

In that case, drop it and move on to getting in touch with more doctors. I've been rejected by plenty, regardless of the excuse. The above quote sounds fairly similar to stuff I've heard before.

Although this thread gives working at JHU as an example, there are plenty of other places where you can still apply. I would stop emailing this doctor and look for others.


----------



## comet

MastahRiz said:


> In that case, drop it and move on to getting in touch with more doctors. I've been rejected by plenty, regardless of the excuse. The above quote sounds fairly similar to stuff I've heard before.
> 
> Although this thread gives working at JHU as an example, there are plenty of other places where you can still apply. I would stop emailing this doctor and look for others.


I guess you are right and this should be just an excuse and not a generalised fact representing the actual scenario of JHU, in that case indeed I better move on to other doctors... thanks a lot for your advice..:happy:


----------



## nicodemus

Hi... Anyone of you around here can recommend some places which I can try to apply for elective but doesn't require USMLE Step 1 or TOEFL?

Mount Sinai, Uni of Michigan requires students to complete USMLE Step 1 in order to be eligible to apply... #confused

Another question... I browse through a lot of websites of other medical schools, most of them require students to be in their final year of studies to be eligible to apply for elective...

Since I'm only in 3rd year, technically I'm not eligible to apply... But would it be OK if I try to apply? Should I apply directly? Or it would be better to get in touch with a doctor of the department I'm interested to do my elective in, then only apply if the doctor agree to take me in? Any advice or suggestions? #wink


----------



## MastahRiz

That might be a new rule, but as far as I know places that do have that rule will allow you granted you get the approval of the doctor beforehand. If not, apply for a research elective instead, or simply an observership.


----------



## comet

*Is it a good opportunity?*

Hi mastahriz and rehan,
once again thanks for your valuable guidance from time to time. Now here I am with an offer from the surgery department from UT southwestern , they have offered me a so called research elective, but my actual job is just to enter data into the database. Some of their surgery professors have been seeing many surgery patients over years and now want their clinical findings to be compiled into a database so that they can derive some statistical correlations and useful conclusions to get published. 
Disadvantages of offer 
1) They are not ready to sponsor me in anyways, I am supposed to bear my own housing expenses outside the campus
2) It is a laborious work for which perhaps they are in a need of a volunteer
3) J1 visa is compulsory for me to comit to project
4) It is an unpaid short term labourious offer for 3 months and that too on J1 visa which as far as I know is meant to be for paid jobs ( does that mean I can have fair chances of visa rejection?)

Advantages of the offer
1) They say that a number of publications would come out over 5 years from the useful data of the database and my name would be published as one of the authors ( how far should I trust this statement?)
2) I shall be allowed to observe in the OT , clinical rounds , conferences of surgery department
3) There is no tuition fee
4) I shall interacting with the whole surgery faculty and residents
Doubts 
1) Should I spend 3 months taking break from my internship at one university for this offer or try for electives in others which I havent be successful in getting one so far ( I mean to ask is it better to work at one place for 3 months or get 3 electives at 3 different universities if offered )
2) Can I expect some ray of hope for surgery residency in this university in future having worked for three months. (research + observership )
3) The university offers F1 visa for electives but in my case it has compulsorily asked J1 visa#confused

Hoping your valuable advices full of experiences at the earliest..


----------



## MastahRiz

Electives will always be unpaid. You will always be expected to pay for your own housing/living expenses. Don't be deterred simply by this reason.

This sounds like a great opportunity and I think you should take it unless you have some other options lined up as well.

I'm not sure what the requirements are for J1 and if the university will only select students with a J1 visa, but I do know that you should be able to get a *B1 visa* without any trouble. I have a number of friends who have gotten a B1 visa for their electives.

I think you should email the department, or the doctor or whoever has accepted you, and ask them if they will still allow you to work there if you have a B1 instead of a J1 visa.

It's definitely a better idea to spend all 3 months at one place. One month at 3 different places will not really help you as much.


----------



## comet

Dear mastahriz,
I am glad that you give such an immediate reply to our queries and your reply indeed satisfies me more than anyone else.Well so far I dont have any other options not even a single one so I better go with this one but in case I am offered other electives suppose at JHU ( which at present although I am denied ) and it their requirement is B1 visa then it may create a problem once i am applied for J1 visa.. anyways shall be updating you with any such options if offered... just one more query as I asked you in my previous post, how bright would be my chances of having surgery residency in the same univ in future, I know its not possible for you to say for sure, but still you can better judge this than me...to avoid both excess of hopes or dismay from side...#yes


----------



## MastahRiz

Just to be clear, the difference between the two visa options is that the J1 is for people who will be getting paid and has a 2 year limit.

You will need to get the B1 visa which is the one visiting students use for visits and tourism. Usually hospitals and universities will allow elective students to come with the B1 visa, so hopefully this isn't an issue.

You don't need to apply for the J1 visa until it's time for your residency, ie when you've actually been accepted and have a residency lined up, then you should apply for the J1, not until then.

A 3 month internship will hardly be enough to land you a residency there, however, it's still a large step in the right direction. Keep in mind that the single most important factor of getting a residency is the USMLE step 1 score. Research publications that you get along with a high step 1 score will be a great start, however you may have to spend additional time doing research there in the future, maybe up to 1 year. This will greatly increase your chances of matching there, so much so that it may very well become a confirmed thing by the time your research year ends.

If I was in this situation I would just forget about JHU right now and focus all of my efforts at UT southwestern. If this is your first elective then you should know that once you've done any elective anywhere, it makes it much easier for you to get electives in the future. In other words, if you don't get the JHU elective right now, you can feel confident that you might always end up there later.

Best of luck, hope it all works out.


----------



## comet

*Now thats what I call an experienced person!!*

Wow mastahriz what an informative, mature and wonderful piece of advice! I am cleared with all my doubts, You are absolutely right ( as usual! ), I must forger JHU right now and concentrate over the offer I have in my hands. Just one more hassle, the univ is asking me to come only on J1 visa , so which visa I finally apply for ; J1 or B1 ; or rather I once again request the univ to see if I could come there for B1...and in case the univ adheres to its demand for me to come on J1 and I procure J1 visa what problems I may face in the future as compared to B1 visa..#roll


----------



## MastahRiz

Did you talk to the university again? Make sure they understand that the J1 visa is for paid positions. How can the university expect you to get a J1 visa when they are saying themselves that they will not be paying you for this position?

Email them again and ask if there's anyway you can be accepted with a B1 visa since you are coming only for 3 months and you are student who is coming for an unpaid research assistant position. You won't be able to get the J1 visa even if you apply for it as you won't have a paid position.

I haven't ever filled out a US visa application myself, so you should definitely double check on the rules of the US visas and the different types before emailing them again, just to be 100% sure. I'm going strictly off the experiences of a few friends who did electives and had to apply for B1 visas. The J1 is indeed a work visa, but that's for paid work, not assistant or volunteer positions.

Again, I may not be 100% correct here, as the only visas I have dealt with myself are Pakistani visas


----------



## comet

Hmm... seems like a plausible argument ... let me first research about the j1 visa terms and conditions and then talk to the univ.. shall let you know whatever the outcome is..#yes


----------



## Acidian

Does a register of all US physicians exist online?


----------



## MastahRiz

It may, but I doubt it. What we do is use the hospital's website to find their faculty list.


----------



## Acidian

MastahRiz said:


> It may, but I doubt it. What we do is use the hospital's website to find their faculty list.


Thanks. 

I am trying to find doctors who are working on the US who have studied in a particular country previously.


----------



## comet

hey mastahriz,
I got accepted for general surgery subinternship at Tufts, boston, in march but seems I'l have to drop it, coz they ask B2 visa and UT southwestern sending me some special J1 visa form along with their acceptance letter for J1 visa on which they told me that I would not be able to go to ANY other schools for clerkship since this is only for UT southwestern, but luckily I persuaded them to arrange a gen surgery subI also for me for 1 month during my 4 months stay over there. First I thought that I would attend subI of tufts in between in March as well as their 4 months offer of research cum subI total (5 months) but now its clear I have to choose either of ... so my final question "Is it a risk commiting to one uni for four months although the fact that they offering me both research and subI, but at the same time I will have to discard Tufts immediately as well as forget hoping any other future acceptances from JHU or others,since I would be confined to only this uni in case I commit" ( I cant further postpone my internship which I have to finish after coming back )
Moreover right now my gut feeling says that I do this 4 months stuff along with step 2 CS and forget about any other place, straightaway come back, give step 1 in 3 months in July ( I have finished one reading of ) and gamble by applying for surg resid without step2, mostly I wont make it up in which case I give step 2 ck and step 3 , apply for some more research in the same univ and try next year ( 2012 ) for surg resi, what say ( of course I shall not compromise my step 1 score...). 
Sorry if I am bothering you much...#roll


----------



## Acidian

Did you get all these elective options by contacting doctors directly? or going through the universities' application system?

I still think I am doing something wrong.


----------



## comet

Acidian said:


> Did you get all these elective options by contacting doctors directly? or going through the universities' application system?
> 
> I still think I am doing something wrong.


NO it was through the application system, I had applied in April in UT and July in tufts and others,,,, yes also i tried to email the professors to have their direct contact but none worked,,,

As a matter of fact UT southwestern application was closed by May,,



Acidian said:


> Did you get all these elective options by contacting doctors directly? or going through the universities' application system?
> 
> I still think I am doing something wrong.


If you feel you are wrong somewhere you can share your doubts this forum is there enriched with experienced people like rehan and mastahriz ( God bless them!! ) to clear our doubts..


----------



## Acidian

comet said:


> If you feel you are wrong somewhere you can share your doubts this forum is there enriched with experienced people like rehan and mastahriz ( God bless them!! ) to clear our doubts..


I am trying to go by the e-mailing professors approach. And apart from that I am trying to go for professors who graduated from the same University I attend.
I have only emailed 1 doctor till now and got a sort of half reply. He said he would contact administration to check on details but I havn't got a reply back yet.

Did you need any USMLE examinations comet?
Also at what time of the year were applications for the electives you registered for open?


----------



## comet

Acidian said:


> I am trying to go by the e-mailing professors approach. And apart from that I am trying to go for professors who graduated from the same University I attend.
> I have only emailed 1 doctor till now and got a sort of half reply. He said he would contact administration to check on details but I havn't got a reply back yet.
> 
> Did you need any USMLE examinations comet?
> Also at what time of the year were applications for the electives you registered for open?


applications for most of the univ are open round the year except few including the UT southwestern...

No you dont need usmle examinations for most of the univ, only some of the univ such as case westerman, cleaveland, mayo, cincinnati requires it compulsory, others would prefer if you have but not necessary

Regarding the email of prof Mastahriz would be a better person to guide you, since even I could not succeed by this approach inspite of emailing to hundreds of prof, I only got reply of 5 or 6 and that too negative ( m not discouraging you just sharing my experience ), but luckily I got accepted to the ones I applied earlier..

Which univ you refer to by your graduation..?:happy:


----------



## Acidian

comet said:


> applications for most of the univ are open round the year except few including the UT southwestern...
> 
> No you dont need usmle examinations for most of the univ, only some of the univ such as case westerman, cleaveland, mayo, cincinnati requires it compulsory, others would prefer if you have but not necessary
> 
> Regarding the email of prof Mastahriz would be a better person to guide you, since even I could not succeed by this approach inspite of emailing to hundreds of prof, I only got reply of 5 or 6 and that too negative ( m not discouraging you just sharing my experience ), but luckily I got accepted to the ones I applied earlier..
> 
> Which univ you refer to by your graduation..?:happy:


Well I have not graduated yet (that should happen 2012). I attend the University of Malta. So I am trying to find doctors who work in the US who have graduated and got their MD from the UoM.
I am trying to find more doctors. Till now I have about 5 people. I only emailed 1 person though as a trial. As I said I got an acknowledgement and still waiting for further instructions.

Thank you for all this priceless info, comet.


----------



## MastahRiz

comet said:


> hey mastahriz,
> I got accepted for general surgery sub-internship at Tufts, Boston, in march but seems I'll have to drop it, because they ask B2 visa and UT southwestern sending me some special J1 visa form along with their acceptance letter for J1 visa on which they told me that I would not be able to go to ANY other schools for clerkship since this is only for UT southwestern, but luckily I persuaded them to arrange a gen surgery subI also for me for 1 month during my 4 months stay over there. First I thought that I would attend subI of tufts in between in March as well as their 4 months offer of research cum subI total (5 months) but now its clear I have to choose either of ... so my final question "Is it a risk committing to one uni for four months although the fact that they offering me both research and subI, but at the same time I will have to discard Tufts immediately as well as forget hoping any other future acceptances from JHU or others,since I would be confined to only this uni in case I commit" ( I cant further postpone my internship which I have to finish after coming back )
> Moreover right now my gut feeling says that I do this 4 months stuff along with step 2 CS and forget about any other place, straightaway come back, give step 1 in 3 months in July ( I have finished one reading of ) and gamble by applying for surg resid without step2, mostly I wont make it up in which case I give step 2 ck and step 3 , apply for some more research in the same univ and try next year ( 2012 ) for surg resi, what say ( of course I shall not compromise my step 1 score...).
> Sorry if I am bothering you much...#roll


I think you should stick to one place, it'll definitely be better for you in the long run than doing short stints here and there. It sounds like you have a really promising opportunity there. I wish you all the best.



Acidian said:


> Did you get all these elective options by contacting doctors directly? or going through the universities' application system?
> 
> I still think I am doing something wrong.


Emailing doctors individually can be a bit tricky. You have to be tactful about what you say, and make sure your emails are neither too formal nor too informal. It also helps if they're somewhat short. They shouldn't be any longer than say 2/3rds of a page max, or better yet a half a page.

You need to introduce yourself quickly and get your point across. It's perfectly okay to put some parts in bold.

Getting in touch with a doctor through his personal email address implies you have a personal interest in him and therefore you should at least pretend that you do, otherwise it may come off as rude. Take his name and do a pub med search for whatever comes up. Make sure you read at least 1 of his previously published articles. Copy and paste the title of that paper into your email somewhere in the second or third paragraph and mention how you thoroughly enjoyed reading it and were really interested in similar projects of his. Go on to mention why he should pick you for a position, whether research or clinical.

If you have previously worked anywhere else which was even remotely related to the medical field, write that down on a CV and attach that with your email.

Keep it short and to the point, and definitely do not beg anyone. Make yourself sound professional and that your main objective is just to work with this doctor that you are emailing.


----------



## Acidian

Is an elective at Harvard worth the money? I mean all $4000 of it.

My dad is trying to convince me to try hard to go there for an elective (next year).

Is the Harvard name that 'WOW'?

I personally think it is slightly overrated. Any honest opinions?


----------



## MedGrunt

Acidian said:


> Is an elective at Harvard worth the money? I mean all $4000 of it.
> 
> My dad is trying to convince me to try hard to go there for an elective (next year).
> 
> Is the Harvard name that 'WOW'?
> 
> I personally think it is slightly overrated. Any honest opinions?


Harvard accepts most people that are willing to pay and for that very reason might not carry as much weight as an elective somewhere where you're judged solely on merit. That being said if you can't get an elective elsewhere it is something to consider. Just be aware that when you write Harvard on your CV people will know about the $4000 price tag that went along with it.


----------



## comet

Acidian said:


> Is an elective at Harvard worth the money? I mean all $4000 of it.
> 
> My dad is trying to convince me to try hard to go there for an elective (next year).
> 
> Is the Harvard name that 'WOW'?
> 
> I personally think it is slightly overrated. Any honest opinions?


I would also like to bring to your notice that harvard professors most of the times give just an average lor, inspite of your spending 4000$, one of my seniors did an elective from there... so seriously consider before applying to...I personally feel it can be always considered as a last option when you have no other options...



MastahRiz said:


> Did you talk to the university again? Make sure they understand that the J1 visa is for paid positions. How can the university expect you to get a J1 visa when they are saying themselves that they will not be paying you for this position?
> 
> Email them again and ask if there's anyway you can be accepted with a B1 visa since you are coming only for 3 months and you are student who is coming for an unpaid research assistant position. You won't be able to get the J1 visa even if you apply for it as you won't have a paid position.
> 
> I haven't ever filled out a US visa application myself, so you should definitely double check on the rules of the US visas and the different types before emailing them again, just to be 100% sure. I'm going strictly off the experiences of a few friends who did electives and had to apply for B1 visas. The J1 is indeed a work visa, but that's for paid work, not assistant or volunteer positions.
> 
> Again, I may not be 100% correct here, as the only visas I have dealt with myself are Pakistani visas


Hi Mastahriz, 
I did lots of research over J1 visa issue, there is a shortterm j1 visa for max 6 months for shortterm research scholars which is exempt from the 2 year home country rule, but again I could not find if its restricted to paid positions (I wont be paid for electives!!) or others as well, my univ adheres to its norms and says it would be emailing some J1 visa forms to me which I am suppose to fill and post them, but still the big question I could not find an answer to if an unpaid research elective offer like mine can be put for J1 shortterm visa application and how far the chances of rejected. I know you also havent filled a visa application file,but I guess you may have other sources (friends,etc) to help me out..#roll


----------



## Ad33L

i'm thinking of applying to US for clinical electives...i'm currently in 3rd year of med school in Pak...how do i go about???


----------



## MastahRiz

I'm a bit busy these days while I finish up my final year MBBS exams, but hopefully, God willing, I'll pass them and be back here to help you guys out by the end of the week.

Thanks, appreciate the patience.


----------



## comet

MastahRiz said:


> I'm a bit busy these days while I finish up my final year MBBS exams, but hopefully, God willing, I'll pass them and be back here to help you guys out by the end of the week.
> 
> Thanks, appreciate the patience.


All the best Mastahriz, I am sure you will definitely pass the exams and that too with flying colors after all God helps those who help others, hope to see you seen with your good news, till then take care...:happy:


----------



## m-a-r-i-a-m

I am 4th year MBBS student in Pakistan. I have read the whole thread and still have some questions. I sincerely hope you guys can answer them and clear my doubts.

1. Am i eligile for clinical electives as i am not in final year?
2. Do i need to mention in email that MBBS is five year programm so they dont mistake me for a final year student as in usa med school is of 4 years?
3.i have sent mails to professors for research electives, they say a month is not enough time for research. i have one month of summer vacations only and i can stretch it to maximum of 6 weeks. what can i do about that?
4.what do we do in research electives actually as a cardiac surgery asst professor at emory university georgia mailed me back asking what are my expectations regarding research elective?
5. university of pensylvania's trauma surgery professor has offered me clinical observership. would that be helpful in future for getting residency in surgery in usa?
6. i am not sure if i qualify for observership. i thought only medical graduates can do that. can u clear that out?
7. what should i prefer clinical observership at upenn or research electives at emory goergia?

I am sorry for asking so many questions. U guys are doing a wonderful job here. Great help.
And please reply soon as i have to send mails to the professors. Will appreciate it alot.
Sincerely,
Mariam.


----------



## SHr3DD3r

Hi, I am a first year MBBS student in Pakistan. And I pretty much know nothing about this sort of stuff at the moment.

So what I wanted to ask is - when do people normally try for electives? And should I just focus on studying until the time I should be applying/trying for electives and not worry about doing anything else?

Thanks for all that you have done so far.


----------



## comet

m-a-r-i-a-m said:


> I am 4th year MBBS student in Pakistan. I have read the whole thread and still have some questions. I sincerely hope you guys can answer them and clear my doubts.
> 
> 1. Am i eligile for clinical electives as i am not in final year?
> 2. Do i need to mention in email that MBBS is five year programm so they dont mistake me for a final year student as in usa med school is of 4 years?
> 3.i have sent mails to professors for research electives, they say a month is not enough time for research. i have one month of summer vacations only and i can stretch it to maximum of 6 weeks. what can i do about that?
> 4.what do we do in research electives actually as a cardiac surgery asst professor at emory university georgia mailed me back asking what are my expectations regarding research elective?
> 5. university of pensylvania's trauma surgery professor has offered me clinical observership. would that be helpful in future for getting residency in surgery in usa?
> 6. i am not sure if i qualify for observership. i thought only medical graduates can do that. can u clear that out?
> 7. what should i prefer clinical observership at upenn or research electives at emory goergia?
> 
> I am sorry for asking so many questions. U guys are doing a wonderful job here. Great help.
> And please reply soon as i have to send mails to the professors. Will appreciate it alot.
> Sincerely,
> Mariam.


Mastah riz would be the best man to answer you but since he seems busy these days owing to exams, I think I can help you as much as my knowledge serves me .. Answers to your questions
1) No you are not, but you can try for the research elective at this stage
2) Yes indeed you need to mention that
3) 6 weeks is fairly enough time for research elective, it means the prof you mailed to may not be interested, so try out mailing others, if the professors do seem interested in you do keep in their touch for future research opportunities after your mbbs
4) Not much idea since me too a novice may be get involved in any of their current projects, something of shortterm duration such as data collection or such other stuffs..
5) an experience at penny shall be definitely helpful if not directly may be in future to get a clinical elective which is denied to foreign students, it shall open the floodgates to you like the case of rehan's friend in nuerosurgery at JHU
6) Med students of any year can qualify for observership
7) This one tricky and subject to individual opinion, still I feel the mass consensus would be toward favouring research elective , try to get both , that is if possible postpone one of the two for your next year vacation...


----------



## yaarbus8

hey can anyone give me a sample letter which he sent to med colleges in the US when applying for research electives? would really help me out..


----------



## MastahRiz

Read the forum rules, thanks.


----------



## thecalccobra

During 2nd year's summer vacations, would it be better to invest my time in research or a clinical elective? For someone who has no prior research experience, would contacting MD, PhD professors be a good idea? Wouldn't they want someone a bit more experienced?


----------



## MastahRiz

Second year is a good place to start.

Clinical electives will teach you more, whereas research electives have the potential to be much more rewarding *if* you get a publication. This however is largely dependent on how much time you can invest in research, which field you're doing research in, how big the research project is, how many other people are working on the same project, how much work you actually get to do on the project, and occasionally, your dedication to the institution and the ability to return there in the future to continue working-- whether on the same project or others.

Clinical electives however are harder to line up when you're only in 2nd year, especially if you don't have any clinical experience at your own school. A really good thing for you to do is line up a research elective for now, and while you're there make as many friends as possible. Do research as best you can, but also try to get friendly with the consultant or head of department who's closest to your project. Eventually, start asking him if you can get in some clinic time here and there and then line up mixed electives there in the future where you work in the lab as well as with the patients.

In the future, feel out what kind of research it is and gauge what your chances are of getting a publication. Once you've done that, you can switch between clinic/lab however you like and get yourself the most benefit.


----------



## thecalccobra

Yeah, all that is to follow. My main concern is what information should be included in the email and how long it needs to be ideally. I am also limited to one medical school so that minimizes the number of emails I can send out.


----------



## vienna24

Hi, I'm a 4th year (out of 6) medical student in Vienna, Austria and I am interested in doing some clinical electives in the US next fall. I have been doing lots of research and I see that I should apply for most clinical electives through the university associated with the hospital. When I apply though the universtiy though, they all ask for "tuition" which is quite expensive for international students. I was wondering- do I have to pay for all of the clinical electives, or is it possible to get around this "tuition" if I apply directly to the doctors as was recommended in this forum? Even if the doctors accept me directly, it was mentioned that I still have to go through the application process during which I assume that I will be confronted with the "tuition fee" again??

Thanks in advance for any help!


----------



## july5

Hi, 
US medical schools usually expect visiting students to cover their own health insurance and malpractice insurance. Did you have any insurance while you were doing your elective in JHU? Also, there is one more thing called "tuition fee" in some medical schools(which vienna24 asked). Some other schools charge visiting students with registration fee. Did you pay any of these at the start of your elective?

Thanks for your great work here


----------



## MastahRiz

Most of the answers you guys are looking for are already spread out through this thread.


----------



## mhf

*confused*

hi i am new to this forum. i am currently in the fourth year of my mbbs.i plan on going for clinical electives this winter at the end of my academic year. i have a few questions and would be very grateful for any help

1) what is the difference between an observership,elective and clerkship?
2) what is the best method to apply should i bombard all the schools with emails or something?
3) what is this behnam medical institute.the name keeps popping up on sites.is it only for med grads or med students as well?

P.S kindly answer the first question in as much detail as possible

THANK YOU


----------



## Madani Sheikh

Hats off to Rehan and Mastahriz. May God bless you both and everyone else here.

Got a little question though:
Do i need a strong bank statement when applying for this Visa?
Is there a chance of getting the visa if i dont have a very strong bank statement?


----------



## MastahRiz

mhf said:


> hi i am new to this forum. i am currently in the fourth year of my mbbs.i plan on going for clinical electives this winter at the end of my academic year. i have a few questions and would be very grateful for any help
> 
> 1) what is the difference between an observership,elective and clerkship?
> 2) what is the best method to apply should i bombard all the schools with emails or something?
> 3) what is this behnam medical institute.the name keeps popping up on sites.is it only for med grads or med students as well?
> 
> P.S kindly answer the first question in as much detail as possible
> 
> THANK YOU


Fourth year is a good time to start setting up "electives." Since your vacation will begin sometime november or december, this is a good time of year to start setting them up. You'll need a lot of time to get all the paper work and housing set up properly.

1. Electives and clerkships are pretty much the same thing. Different people just use different terms. In Shifa, your own daily clinical rotations are commonly referred to clerkships by most of the faculty.

The word 'electives' is usually used over there to refer to rotations or clinical time spent abroad. In the US, they're just referred to rotations, or away rotations when you do them somewhere other than your own school. If you're looking to do an elective, to the US doctors you're basically just looking to do an away rotation.

An observership, is also time spent at another medical institution, however you can do nothing other than observe. Technically you can't even take patient histories or do physical exams. You can't participate in any clinical or surgical work, however you can watch everything that goes on. In an elective, or away rotation, you can get involved in a lot more, and possibly even assist in surgical procedures, depending on your qualifications, basic sciences knowledge, and performance in daily clinic work once you start the elective. An observership is not worth anything really, but it becomes your only option once you've graduated from medical school. 

(You can not do away rotations/electives/clinical clerkships if you've already graduated from med school, however, you can still do observerships.)

2. The best method is really up to you. Some students pay for electives which you can set up at some very good institutions like Harvard, Yale, or Cornell. These are good to have on a resume however your time there will easily be over shadowed by lots of other medical students and getting a strong letter of recommendation is next to impossible. If you have no other options however, it's not a bad way to go.

Alternatively, you can in fact email doctors and ask if they would be open to having a clinical student rotate with them, but 99% of the time they'll simply refer you to their administrative process and you'll have to apply through the official school channels-- which may not always offer electives to international students. *Emailing doctors is usually the better approach when you're looking for a research elective, not a clinical elective. *For a clinical elective, you're better off just looking for medical schools online that accept international medical schools and applying through their official application process. It's a good idea to go somewhere that isn't crowded.

Most schools will require a tuition fee for clinical electives if you're accepted, but it's generally a lot less than what you'll pay at the ivy league schools. You don't have to pay for doing a research elective (except for your own costs obviously) and they're generally more beneficial than a clinical elective *if *you have enough time to spend in research that you can see a project to completion and get a publication out of it. The best thing to look for is somewhere you can do a chart review project, since that's really basic stuff, has a high chance of publication, and does not take a lot of time if you work hard. I'd recommend you do research if you have plans of practicing in the US in the future, however it is a bit risky getting into research since the project may or may not get published in a journal. Two months is usually a sufficient amount of time for chart reviews, but it's up to you which type of elective you want to do. Clinical electives do teach you a lot and will help you in rotations at Shifa, however publishing in a journal will help you a lot more in the long run.

3. That's a place that will set up rotations for medical students who need to have a prolonged clinical exposure in US hospitals as a requirement to graduate and then practice in the US. Needless to say it's not a free service, but that's not what you need anyway and doesn't apply to your situation.

Let me know if you have any more questions.




Madani Sheikh said:


> Hats off to Rehan and Mastahriz. May God bless you both and everyone else here.
> 
> Got a little question though:
> Do i need a strong bank statement when applying for this Visa?
> Is there a chance of getting the visa if i dont have a very strong bank statement?



Yes, you do need a bank statement. I'm not sure of the recommended amount but the weaker it is the stronger the chance that you will not get the visa.


----------



## Madani Sheikh

I consulted a friend of mine regarding this bank statement issue, he said that Bank statement becomes a prob only when you go abroad for studies, they make sure you have enough resources to keep you going while you're there, but since this electives program doesn't require much financial aid so that won't be a problem in the Visa procedure. How much do you think he is correct?


----------



## mhf

*thank u*

thank you rizwan bhai for your help.


----------



## dieanotherday

At Madani Shaikh:
I applied for the visa too while I was going for my elective, and to be honest my Bank statement wasn't that strong. Although they didn't see mine, (I did get the visa) they did see a lot of my other friends' statements when they went. Its their way of assessing the candidate's roots, stability etc. It has less to do with how strong the candidate is financially, so it doesn't need to be a very great amount. It should be a little more than the cost of the entire elective which includes accommodation, food expenses and tuition fee etc. Tell me if you have more questions. xx


----------



## Madani Sheikh

Thank you very much dieanotherday. I really appreciate your help.


----------



## orauf89

ok..now im getting replies..but 3 of the docters asked me if i have a us visa..which i dont.....why are they worried about ,the visa..?does this mean that they will probably not accept me>?


----------



## mzhomsi

hey everyone, i'm new here

i'm in my 3rd yr (of six) in Damascus University, Syria

I found this thread very informative

but it still have two qustions:

1)is there any chance to have clincal elective before being in final year?

2) if i want to do a research elecive, how should my e-mail looks like? "what should i include on it?"
( can you give me an e.g for it?)


----------



## Manoj Sharma

hi! Sir I am 3rd year medical student and I want to do electives in US. Can you just guide me from where should I start as no in my family is in US and no one close to me has any idea in this regard? Please sir help me out?


----------



## AMC-UvA!

Hey Rehan and Mastahriz, thanks a lot for all of the information you gave here about the research electives. It has really been usefull so far. I am a first year medical student (out of six years total) at the University of Amsterdam / AMC and my goal is to practise medicine in the USA after my graduation.

As it has became clear to me that it is really competitive out there to get a residency, I also wanted to get into a research elective. So far I have sent a lot of emails to different doctors of JHU and got one friendly reply back from a doctor that they don't have room at the moment and so he can't accept me. 

Well, I have a few questions about research electives and my situation, I hope someone can answer them:
1) Can I just contact any doctor in any US hospital/medical school who is involved in research, to ask for a research elective, or does a hospital/medical school actually has to have an official elective program (like having it explicitly on the school's site, like JHU)?
2) Does anyone here maybe knows more places to do research electives, besides JHU as I've already tried that? Can't really afford a place like Harvard or Cornell, certainly if I won't get much out of it. I'm desperately looking for any good medical school where I'll have a good chance of acceptance for a research elective for this summer.
3) Do I have any advantage in applying for the different electives considering that the University of Amsterdam has a fairly good world ranking (#49 in 2009)?
4) As I have limited time for a research elective (during summer break= 7-8 weeks max), I've read in this topic that the most rewarding research electives in that timespan are chart review researches. Is there anyway of finding out where are the best places I could apply so I could get into that kind of research?
5) Are the positions for research electives in places like JHU actually available on basis of space? Because I could imagine that a lot of students all over the world would like to this and availabilty on basis of space would just mean that the first ones who apply get the research electives. Don't you have to give some kind of CV or will they judge you on your scores on your transcript? Because I don't know what's the use of the JHU policy for visiting students to also let them send their transcripts if the grading systems are different in many countries.
6) Because I eventually want to go for a surgical residency in the States, it's important to have 1.high USMLE-Step1 scores and 2.research publications, for that reason the electives. But here in the AMC, my medical school, we have a lot of departments with a lot of research going on. And it would be more easy for me to just assist with research over here, because they are very open for their own medical students. Wouldn't it be just as much worth to help here and get some publications here during my years of medical school or is it really necessary to get research experience in the US? Because with the same trouble you go trough *just* *getting *a research elective, you could also just knock on one of the many doors of the research departments of your own medical school, assist in one of their researches, like reviews e.g., and get your name on a publication. I understand why you need to have clinical experience in America, but I don't understand the necessity of research electives, besides the contacts you make that can possibly help you later on. Do you maybe need them to get more chance of succes when applying for a clinical rotation?

I understand I have asked a lot but I'd really appreciate some answers from anyone. Thanks in advance.:happy:


----------



## MastahRiz

^Been a bit busy these days but I'll try to reply to the last few posts as soon as I get a chance.


----------



## Smeer

AMC-UvA! said:


> 1) Can I just contact any doctor in any US hospital/medical school who is involved in research, to ask for a research elective, or does a hospital/medical school actually has to have an official elective program (like having it explicitly on the school's site, like JHU)?
> 2) Does anyone here maybe knows more places to do research electives, besides JHU as I've already tried that? Can't really afford a place like Harvard or Cornell, certainly if I won't get much out of it. I'm desperately looking for any good medical school where I'll have a good chance of acceptance for a research elective for this summer.


Hi AMC-UvA,

1) Using the advice I found on this site, I just directly contacted doctors without going through the official elective programs and I found that it works pretty well. I think research electives offer a lot more leniency than clinical electives as doctors doing research could always use a helping hand.

2) I too am a little short on $$ at the moment, so I tried emailing doctors from universities near my home in California. The University of California in Los Angeles and the University of California in Irvine medical schools (I think) are excellent medical schools in the U.S. that have tons of research going on. I would try emailing some professors in the departments you're interested in and seeing what happens. I've tried both and gotten positive responses.


----------



## MastahRiz

thecalccobra said:


> Yeah, all that is to follow. My main concern is what information should be included in the email and how long it needs to be ideally. I am also limited to one medical school so that minimizes the number of emails I can send out.


Keep your email short. Introduce yourself in no more than 2-3 sentences and mention your year and name of your school. Discuss your interest in the field that you're applying into and your specific interests in that doctor's research. Reference a paper of his/hers by name and mention how much time you have available for research. Also mention any previous research experience that you may have.



vienna24 said:


> Hi, I'm a 4th year (out of 6) medical student in Vienna, Austria and I am interested in doing some clinical electives in the US next fall. I have been doing lots of research and I see that I should apply for most clinical electives through the university associated with the hospital. When I apply though the university though, they all ask for "tuition" which is quite expensive for international students. I was wondering- do I have to pay for all of the clinical electives, or is it possible to get around this "tuition" if I apply directly to the doctors as was recommended in this forum? Even if the doctors accept me directly, it was mentioned that I still have to go through the application process during which I assume that I will be confronted with the "tuition fee" again??
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help!


yes, you have to pay for tuition. There's no way around that. E-mailing doctors is a method recommended just for research electives, not clinical electives.



july5 said:


> Hi,
> US medical schools usually expect visiting students to cover their own health insurance and malpractice insurance. Did you have any insurance while you were doing your elective in JHU? Also, there is one more thing called "tuition fee" in some medical schools(which vienna24 asked). Some other schools charge visiting students with registration fee. Did you pay any of these at the start of your elective?
> 
> Thanks for your great work here


Yes, you have to pay for malpractice insurance and some places will also require you to pay for medical insurance, which can be pretty cheap (25-50 dollars). Malpractice is usually more, around 125 dollars a month. 



orauf89 said:


> ok..now im getting replies..but 3 of the docters asked me if i have a us visa..which i dont.....why are they worried about ,the visa..?does this mean that they will probably not accept me>?


You have to have a visa to visit the US. You can be accepted by as many doctors as you want but you won't be able to travel to the US without a visa.


mzhomsi said:


> hey everyone, i'm new here
> 
> i'm in my 3rd yr (of six) in Damascus University, Syria
> 
> I found this thread very informative
> 
> but it still have two qustions:
> 
> 1)is there any chance to have clincal elective before being in final year?
> 
> 2) if i want to do a research elecive, how should my e-mail looks like? "what should i include on it?"
> ( can you give me an e.g for it?)


1. Yes, of course there's a chance to have clinical electives before final year. You can do them as early as 3rd year even as long as you've started clinical work at your school.

2. See above.




Manoj Sharma said:


> hi! Sir I am 3rd year medical student and I want to do electives in US. Can you just guide me from where should I start as no in my family is in US and no one close to me has any idea in this regard? Please sir help me out?


You'll have to find housing and pay for it yourself. If you're lucky some schools have housing that you can pay them for. If not, a good place to check is craigslist classifieds: jobs, housing, personals, for sale, services, community, events, forums. Once you have an acceptance for an elective, than go ahead and start looking for housing. Be sure to browse under the sublets/temp section.



AMC-UvA! said:


> Hey Rehan and Mastahriz, thanks a lot for all of the information you gave here about the research electives. It has really been usefull so far. I am a first year medical student (out of six years total) at the University of Amsterdam / AMC and my goal is to practise medicine in the USA after my graduation.
> 
> As it has became clear to me that it is really competitive out there to get a residency, I also wanted to get into a research elective. So far I have sent a lot of emails to different doctors of JHU and got one friendly reply back from a doctor that they don't have room at the moment and so he can't accept me.
> 
> Well, I have a few questions about research electives and my situation, I hope someone can answer them:
> 1) Can I just contact any doctor in any US hospital/medical school who is involved in research, to ask for a research elective, or does a hospital/medical school actually has to have an official elective program (like having it explicitly on the school's site, like JHU)?
> 2) Does anyone here maybe knows more places to do research electives, besides JHU as I've already tried that? Can't really afford a place like Harvard or Cornell, certainly if I won't get much out of it. I'm desperately looking for any good medical school where I'll have a good chance of acceptance for a research elective for this summer.
> 3) Do I have any advantage in applying for the different electives considering that the University of Amsterdam has a fairly good world ranking (#49 in 2009)?
> 4) As I have limited time for a research elective (during summer break= 7-8 weeks max), I've read in this topic that the most rewarding research electives in that timespan are chart review researches. Is there anyway of finding out where are the best places I could apply so I could get into that kind of research?
> 5) Are the positions for research electives in places like JHU actually available on basis of space? Because I could imagine that a lot of students all over the world would like to this and availabilty on basis of space would just mean that the first ones who apply get the research electives. Don't you have to give some kind of CV or will they judge you on your scores on your transcript? Because I don't know what's the use of the JHU policy for visiting students to also let them send their transcripts if the grading systems are different in many countries.
> 6) Because I eventually want to go for a surgical residency in the States, it's important to have 1.high USMLE-Step1 scores and 2.research publications, for that reason the electives. But here in the AMC, my medical school, we have a lot of departments with a lot of research going on. And it would be more easy for me to just assist with research over here, because they are very open for their own medical students. Wouldn't it be just as much worth to help here and get some publications here during my years of medical school or is it really necessary to get research experience in the US? Because with the same trouble you go trough *just* *getting *a research elective, you could also just knock on one of the many doors of the research departments of your own medical school, assist in one of their researches, like reviews e.g., and get your name on a publication. I understand why you need to have clinical experience in America, but I don't understand the necessity of research electives, besides the contacts you make that can possibly help you later on. Do you maybe need them to get more chance of succes when applying for a clinical rotation?
> 
> I understand I have asked a lot but I'd really appreciate some answers from anyone. Thanks in advance.:happy:


1. For the most part, yes, you can email any doctor you like for doing a research elective. When you email the doctors don't refer to it as a research elective. Just say you're interested in participating in research as a *research assistant*.

2. Almost every hospital that has a university program associated with them is usually involved in research. There are hundreds of hospitals to choose from, JHU is simply an example that was used in this thread, it's not a recommendation for everyone here to apply to that school.

3. Maybe, but not something I would imagine there's a statistic for how much stronger your chances are exactly.

4. You'll have to email doctors and ask.

5. Yes, availability is not guaranteed, lots of medical students apply for electives and you may run into them while you're doing an elective of your own. You will need to send your CV along with your first email to each doctor. If they ask for additional information you'll have to send it.

6. If you can do research in your own school then *definitely* get involved in it. I can't stress that enough.

Good luck, and awesome avatar.


----------



## Smeer

Hey guys,

Sorry don't mean to set aside anyone else's concerns, but I've got one to share as well.

I emailed a doctor for an elective and he responded positively. The problem is on the school's elective site it mentions that only those students from certain schools are allowed to apply with which the school I'm applying to has an agreement (which is only like 8 schools, mine not being one of them).

Any ideas on how to email the elective coordinators in a way that would minimize my chances of being rejected? I feel like just saying "Dr. Whoever has allowed me the opportunity" might not be sufficient, but is it worth a shot or could I maybe word it in a better way?


----------



## MastahRiz

^I've faced that problem a few times before. Most of the time you still have to apply through their official application form and when doing so you usually have a space on that form where you get to write down either your preferred elective specialty or even preferred doctor(s). In that area, go ahead and just write the field/specialty along with the doctor's name. For example, I would just write "Ophthalmology, as per Dr. So and So's acceptance."

At the same time, I would make sure that the doctor I want to work with has already emailed the rest of the administration or staff that would be involved in the elective approval process.


----------



## ratung

okay here is the thing..i am a medical student in 3rd yr.. i am interested in doing research and clinical electives both..i am in pakistan and studying under uhs...i tried emailing jhu for endocrinology bt the director ws nt interested..tell me wht to do..i want an elective for nxt yr.. tell me wht to do... whr to apply...should i try paeds


----------



## MastahRiz

*The first thing you should do is read the forum rules, posting like this^ is not allowed.

Thanks.*


----------



## ratung

did i do something wrong>?


----------



## anticholinesterase

> *3. Posting:* Users should always search the forum before posting a question. More often than not, you can find plenty of general information tailor-made to fit your situation.
> 
> Users should also refrain from double posting (posting the same post in more than one thread), as this is NOT allowed, and makes our job more difficult.
> 
> Please make *an actual title* for your threads. Writing something like PLEASE HELP ME as a thread title gives absolutely zero information as to what your thread is about. Also, please refrain from using all caps. It's unprofessional, makes things harder to read, and is just plain annoying. Posts in all caps will be deleted.
> 
> As a rule of thumb, there is also some general thread etiquette. For example, pLz st0p tYp1nG li3k DIS. It's extremely unprofessional and annoying to read. There's also no need to use 500 exclamation points or question marks after every sentence.
> 
> *Use correct spelling*. Please *stop* *writing in shorthand (**e.g. ur, u, dun, lyk, nt, c00l, etc.)* It helps this forum's image overall and allows for better search results when you try to find information not only right here on the forum but also on Google itself. The more you spell words the way they're supposed to be spelled, the better chances you as well as everyone else has of finding that information.
> 
> *All posts should be entirely in English*, unless otherwise specified by the thread. Additionally, any unpaid advertisements/spam will be deleted immediately. This forum is not here for your advertising campaign.


http://medstudentz.com/63-post1.html


----------



## Vish

can anyone tell me if oncology is a good career option.??
considering that i will be studying in pakistan shoul i opt for a fellowship in oncology ?? or other courses??


----------



## MastahRiz

^Wrong thread.

This thread is for information related to electives in the US. Please post in the proper forum/thread, thanks.


----------



## AMC-UvA!

Hey guys, another question. What if I would get in a research with my medical school and I could get my name on a publication, but the article will be published in a Dutch medical journal, a good one but a Dutch one. How strong would Dutch publications look on my ERAS application when I apply in 6 years, because that shows that I've done a lot of research too, only not in America. Or isn't that much compared to getting published in an American medical journal. I understand that there isn't any Dutch medical journal that's comparable with The New England Journal of Medicine, but can you at least compare a Dutch publication with a publication in one of the 'lower' medical journals in America?


----------



## MastahRiz

You should always try and get into research at your own school. If you can get published then by all means you should try your best to get involved in any ongoing projects at your college/university.

Doing research in the US doesn't ever guarantee you a publication. A publication, no matter where it comes from, is still a publication and you should take advantage of it.


----------



## AMC-UvA!

Hey thanks for the quick reply . Well i guess I won't be doing any research electives then I guess, because there's more than enough to do here.

But if you're saying a publication is a publication, no matter where it comes from, why did you and Rehan do so many research electives in the US? Was there too little research going on in your own medical school that you could get involved in, that made you guys do research electives in the States trying to get experience and maybe publications? Or did the research electives in America give you some other advantage. Because with the information you gave me in the last few posts I don't really understand anymore why you would spend so much money and time on it, if you can do things in your own home institution. That looks like the easy way :razz:


----------



## MastahRiz

Your first guess is exactly right, there was very, very little research going on at our own medical college, most of which was being done by the senior faculty for their own publications.

Rehan and I also chose to do research in the US because we're both US citizens and always planned on coming back to the US immediately after graduating. It made sense to try and get involved in research at an institution of our choice here in the US so that we would have some research experience as well as get to know important faculty members who could write letters of recommendation for us later on.

Since our home was in the US we also made regular trips back here for vacations. No point in sitting around during those vacations when there are so many hospitals everywhere always willing to take on free labor.

Other than a few hundred dollars sometimes required for tuition, we never paid for electives, only travel and occasionally housing.

Even though your goal is to practice in the US, you should still do as much research as you can in your own college while you have the chance. It was an assumption of mine that if I do one or two month electives every year which eventually add up to 1 year of research, that it would be the same as having done 1 year of research after graduating. This may be true for some but wasn't for me, since most ophthalmology research programs all have projects that take well over 9 or 10 months. It's extremely difficult to get published on a project like that when you're only on the team for about 8 weeks.

If you're interested in a field where the average project gets completed in a 2 or 3 months then doing short electives would still be very beneficial and you could get published very easily.

*Otherwise, if you are going to do research, you should do it for as long as possible and at the same hospital.*


----------



## AMC-UvA!

Ok, well I'm interested in cardiothoracic surgery and I'm sure I eventually want to specialize in that field. I know that in the US you do a residency in general surgery first and then a residency in cardiothoracic surgery. So I guess any research that has to do with cardiology, general surgery, or cardiothoracic surgery is good for me. I think most of the researches done in this field are long term clinical trials, so too long for research electives, but I'm not sure, maybe you know?

Another question. I think I have the opportunity to already get involved in a research. I got a reply back today from a principal investigator from a cohort study being done here in the AMC. She said I could come next week to get to know each other and to introduce me and stuff. But the only thing is, it's a research in occupational health. Not really my field of interest, but she said I could maybe have the chance to write an article about a part of the research data. So the advantage is that I could maybe get a publication out of it and research experience, but the drawback is that I could be stuck to it for a long time (I'm not sure how long they expect me to be involved, but I know this is a long cohort study that has still many years left) and it doesn't really show my enthousiasm for cardiothorcaic surgery. Because I also contacted our cardiothoracic surgery department to do research there, but haven't got back a reply yet, I'm afraid I'll maybe miss out on a research opportunity that's better for me. I don't mind the hard work it takes to do the research, I only don't want to have made the wrong choices for when I want to apply for general surgery later after medical school. 

So to summarize the plan for the coming six years: 
1. get 230+ on USMLE Step 1; 
2. get as much research experience and publications as I can (only don't know if it matters if it's in my field of interest); 
3. do as many clinical electives in US hospitals at the end of medical school, preferrentially in the hospitals I want to apply for in the NRMP match;
4. get high grades in medical school (don't know how PD's will judge this as they don't know how the Dutch grading system works);
5. Get as much letters of recommendations as possible (also not sure about this, do PD's also look at letters of recommendation from Dutch professors and doctors, or do they only look at LORs from US doctors?)

Lol, I guess I ask a lot of questions , but here in the Netherlands nobody knows anything about this, because nobody here thinks about going to the US, so this is my only source of information on this subject. Anyways, thanks for answering my questions.
:happy:


----------



## MastahRiz

I'd say wait till you hear back from your cardio department before you decide where to do your research. You're right that most cardio research in the US would probably be long term, and if you can do research in your cardio department than definitely do so.

Since cardiothoracic surgery is *such* a competitive field I think you should definitely consider the strong possibility that you may have to do a year or even two years of research in the US after graduation. The good news is considering you've done research in your own medical school and will have great board scores (God willing), you can get paid for that research position. There are lots of hospitals that are willing to hire for research positions if you can commit at least two years and have great USMLE scores.

Also, your long term plans are solid. I'd recommend you raise that 230 to at least 240 to be safe. (With your dedication I don't foresee that as being much of a challenge.) 

You should also be aware that after graduation, you're not eligible for clinical electives. You can do research which is what you should focus on, or you can do an observership (which is sort of useless...). If you want to do clinical electives, do those during medical school.


----------



## AMC-UvA!

Yeah here they encourage you to do your rotations during 5th and 6th year abroad as much as possible, so I'll just try to do as much of those clinical electives in the US during that time.

And actually doing two years of research after my study sounds like a good deal. Because when I graduate I will be 24, with those two years added I will have the same age other US MDs have after graduation going into residency, only without the enormous study debts they have  . It's the same here, most people usually do research here or get extra clinical experience by working as a 'basic doctor' for an average of 2 years after graduation. Also a lot of people here try to get a PhD after graduation to boost there chances to get a training spot for specialization in the competitive fields. Funny thing is though that cardiothoracic surgery isn't competitive at all here . I guess because it's a pure cardiothoracic 6 year-programme here, that doesnt give you as much experience as the US programme where your also do general surgery. General surgery is very competitive over here, so I think that's the difference. Anyways, thanks for your advice man.

So I see on your site that you're currently in research yourself after graduation. You have any idea how long you still have to go untill you get some good chances in ophtalmology? Hope you'll get into residency soon.


----------



## MastahRiz

Sounds like you got the right idea. I'm sure you'll make your way into the field one way or another.

I'm planning on applying next year so God willing I'll start residency in 2012 (unless doomsday comes along in accordance with Mayan tradition). Until then, research it is. Not a bad gig at all if you ask me.


----------



## 4003

hey does anyone if canadian citizens need a visa to visit the states for electives? Because as far as i know, i doubt it, unless if you're getting paid. But just to double check the fact?


----------



## MastahRiz

Nope, you won't need one. There are very few exceptions, and you can read about those here: Canadians who require U.S. visas


----------



## orauf89

Ok..so this post and some one on one talk with Rehan and Rizwan was really helpfull,And after sending in tons of emails, to USA and UK i have finally gotten electives in england,i wanted to ask about the CRB form, anyone knows what it is and how to get about it.?..i'm required to fill it in before i apply for the visa.
Also everyones been scaring me that its almost impossible to get a visa for england these days, is it true.?


----------



## MastahRiz

Not really sure about that form. I'd suggest you just ask the secretary in that department or whoever has given you the official acceptance what exactly the CRB form is.

Getting a visa is definitely difficult but not impossible. Stay hopeful.


----------



## Ammara DMC

Thanks for the information, guys. I'm still in first year of my med school, Dow Medical College. Would it be wise of me to go abroad for electives and all? Would renowned universities be welcoming me? I totally can afford the expenses. I'm already decided on what I want to specialize in: Anesthesiology. Also, I was considering Nutrition. Can you become a nutritionist or dietitian after mbbs and how? And is it a promising field here and abroad?
Your help will be highly appreciated.


----------



## MastahRiz

^Answered your question in the other thread. Please refrain from double posting. Thanks. (Read the forum rules if you haven't already done so.)


----------



## orauf89

Ok guys, which category visa do we have to apply for, for electievs in Uk.?


----------



## tqamer786

Im looking to apply for something during my 2nd year. Basically a Pediatric Clerkship. I know a ton of institutions that offer electives for 3rd/4th year students but nothing for just a 2nd year student. Im blessed to be from the United States myself so a Visa is a issue. I actually did pretty much what you did several weeks ago and received replies for a doctor shadowing opportunities. im supposing you were a 4th year med student when you went to john hopkins?


----------



## shehryar1987

*Hey Rehan!*
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]I* am a medical student currently in my final Year of Graduation at Khyber Medical College Peshawar Pakistan. I am interested in undertaking a research electives in USA.
* [/FONT]*
[FONT=&quot]I have already completed my clinical rotations in the clinical Departments [/FONT][FONT=&quot]at our college teaching hospitals during my 3rd, 4th and Final Year of graduation(ongoing). I hope that by getting the chance to undertake a clinical electives program [/FONT][FONT=&quot]will broaden my knowledge and can really help me in this field in future as in future i want to do USMLE.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Kindly guide me how to get an elective as the process is very difficult and all my efforts till now have been in vein [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thanking you in advance and waiting for your reply.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Regards, 
[/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]Shehryar Noor[/FONT]
*


----------



## MastahRiz

Hope you guys are reading the whole thread for similar questions and helpful answers.


----------



## tamali123

thanks a lot both Natacha and Rehan.Your conversation helped me a looooooooooooooot.....


----------



## ali raza

*hi*

*Read the forum rules before posting. Thanks.
*


----------



## mahsima

hi
i have 1qs. is mayo clinic good for elective?


----------



## MastahRiz

Sure is.


----------



## 4003

Is it true that Mount Sinai medical center is affiliated with John Hopkins? If so, would it be just as good as going there instead?


----------



## MastahRiz

Although they may in some way be affiliated with JHU, it will not be the same as actually attending Hopkins for an elective, nor will it count for credit as being at Hopkins.


----------



## orlando77

hello, my name is orlando and im from portugal and I will start medical school here next year.
Here in portugal medicine lasts 6 years, and the first 3 years are basic sciences (anatomy, biochemistry, etc.) and the 4th and 5th we learn about the clinical aspects and the different diseases and the 6th year is a "Supervised Professional Practice".
I want to make a residency on the us, possibly on general surgery.
What electives should i consider, and more important when? i was thinking research electives on 2nd and/or 3rd year and possibly clinical electives on the 4th/5th year (during the summer breaks i mean - that last about 2 months).
Probably i would take the step 1 usmle after my 3rd year, so that i'm better prepared.. 

well, i know its still early, but i want to know exactly what to do from the beggining.
I would greatly appreciate any comment. thank you.

one more thing, here in portugal, one of the universities offers a md/phd program in colaboration with Columbia University on NY and Thomas Jefferson, but only for the best 2 students. Would this be an advantage for applying to a residency on the states?


----------



## dr.a

Hi Rehan,
I was wondering when do the electives at JHU start and finish, because I would like to apply for research elective there in the summer 2011. Can you also tell me when did you start mailing the doctors there??

Please reply


----------



## MastahRiz

Research goes on throughout the year, so the only thing that matters is when you have time to go there.

PS
Don't double post. *Read the forum rules!*


----------



## 4003

Would going to Yale for an elective be a good idea? Or are there a lot of students there, similar to Harvard doing electives, which pretty much cuts the chances of a good LOR?


----------



## orlando77

2 questions please
1- is it worth trying to get an observship after my first med school year (6 year program)?
2- are there any research observship or just clinical observships?

thank you!


----------



## dr.a

hi orlando77,
I think if you can handle the expenses of going to US to do both observship and elective(clinical/research), then you should definitely go.

But if you cant handle the expenses then you should only go first for research elective and you can apply for that in any year in college, then after finishing the research elective you should go for clinical elective and most US colleges accept students for clinical elective in their final year and ask for Usmle step 1 score.

There are only clinical observship as far as I know, but there are research and clinical electives.

The difference between elective and observship is that in the observship the US colleges dont give you any credit , But in electives they do.

I hope I answered your questions.


----------



## orlando77

dr.a said:


> hi orlando77,
> I think if you can handle the expenses of going to US to do both observship and elective(clinical/research), then you should definitely go.
> 
> But if you cant handle the expenses then you should only go first for research elective and you can apply for that in any year in college, then after finishing the research elective you should go for clinical elective and most US colleges accept students for clinical elective in their final year and ask for Usmle step 1 score.
> 
> There are only clinical observship as far as I know, but there are research and clinical electives.
> 
> The difference between elective and observship is that in the observship the US colleges dont give you any credit , But in electives they do.
> 
> I hope I answered your questions.



yes, thank you very much :happy: 
just to make sure, if I can afford an observership say at first year I should do it and for example on second year do a research elective? or observership should only be done at the last year like clinical electives? thanks. great information by the way


----------



## dr.a

I think you could apply for clinical observship in any year, but Iam not sure.

I know that *Cleveland clinic* offers an observship program for international medical students. You can contact them for further information.


----------



## orlando77

awesome  thank you


----------



## mahsima

hi guys
what is hipaa & osha certification?


----------



## Guest

thanks, Rehan for starting such an informative thread.


----------



## shaman.adil

Hello,
I just wanted to ask if we do electives in places like England or somewhere else. Would it help us to get residencies in the US?


----------



## 4003

If you want to get residencies in US, then by all means its better to do the electives in the US. Doing electives outside the US won't really have an impact, unless you're competing with someone whose either not done electives or has done it from somewhere else...than you may be at a slight advantage.


----------



## AMC-UvA!

If you are talking about clinical electives you definitely have to do them in a US hospital because that increases your chances to get a residency there. If you are talking about research, just try to get in a good research that's going to get published. So for that you could indeed go to England for example, if it's a good research elective, that can get you a publication in a short time. Maybe you have a professor at your faculty that has some connections and can get you in a research like that. If there is research on your own faculty, that's going to get published then try to get in there.


----------



## iq101

Hi Rehan ( or anyone who could answer this )
I am wondering did you email the teaching professors in each department or of the research department. I am not sure who to email when looking for a research elective.

Thanks !


----------



## 4003

If you plan on doing a research elective, it's better to contact the research department. But like you have to look up how often or how many research publications a doctor has done in your department of interest...and figure out according to that.


----------



## iq101

wasaykhan713 said:


> If you plan on doing a research elective, it's better to contact the research department. But like you have to look up how often or how many research publications a doctor has done in your department of interest...and figure out according to that.


Thank you !
But do I mention a specific project of the particular professor?


----------



## 4003

Yeah you can do that, it'll show that professor that you're really interested.


----------



## iq101

I am a first year medical student. I am confused whether to apply this year or not since I do not have that much knowledge of basic sciences as yet.


----------



## 4003

better to apply in second year if you want to make an impression...at least you'll know some of it.


----------



## MastahRiz

You should at least know the basic sciences for any field before attending an elective or you will most likely do yourself more harm than good.


----------



## salman_ts

Hello so here is my question when does one start applying for the clinical and research experience? I am a MBBS student going to start first year shortly..


----------



## 4003

It's been stated earlier in this thread many times.
Research elective can be done "any time", meaning during medical school and after medical school. A clinical elective is most likely done in third year or after.


----------



## xhedwig

Rehan said:


> Being a student at a Pakistani medical college myself, I know that to practice in America I will need to have a somewhat competitve application after graduation in order to secure a residency spot in the field of my choice.
> 
> After talking to some professors and figuring out what I needed to make myself a competitive applicant I realized that after USMLE scores the two most important things were hands on clinical experience and participating in research electives, both in American hospitals.
> 
> So last year I had the chance to visit two US hospitals and participate in a clinical and research elective. The first hospital where I participated was Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, MD.
> 
> At that time I was interested in Pediatrics so I went to the Hopkins website and began searching for faculty in the different pediatrics departments and wrote down their names. Then in order to contact them I had to search for their e-mail addresses. The e-mail addresses are not always easy to find and Hopkins' site is no exception. In order to find out the e-mails of the people I wanted to work with, I found this site where I was able to search by doctor name and get a corresponding e-mail address.
> 
> After finding e-mail addresses of all the people who I would write to regarding the opportunity for a research elective I drafted an e-mail in which I could change the names of the physicians easily and send out to multiple receipients. In the e-mail I was sure to include:
> 
> which year of medical school I was in at the time
> how much previous clinical/research experience I had already obtained at my home school
> the fact that I would be responsible for all costs associated w/ housing, transportation, and registration (if required)
> and that I am very interested in the field in which I am applying and am seriously considering pursuing it as a career choice
> 
> All pretty much common sense stuff but from what I've seen, it really does boost your chances in securing a spot. The next thing to do is e-mail as many people in a department or in different departments as you can. You're working on the shotgun approach here---you send out 15-20 e-mails and hopefully will get a response back from about 3-5 of them. Many times doctors are simply too busy to cater to a medical student and therefore the more people you get in touch with, the better your chances are of getting accepted.
> 
> Once a doctor e-mails you back expressing interest in having you with his or her department it is your duty to foster that line of communication and maintain it until you actually do go for your elective. Doctors are simply too busy to have the time to follow up after your request for an elective so the name of the game here is persistence. Many times requesting to be put in touch with the doctor's secretary can help you out a lot in figuring out what paperwork you need to send and where's the best place to secure housing.
> 
> Be sure to send in all your paperwork as soon as possible and if you require a visa give yourself at least 90 days before you have to go in order to apply (especially if you are male). If you request Johns Hopkins International Student Center to send you an official letter confirming your elective dates, you can submit that as proof to the US Embassy which will make it much easier for you to obtain a B1/B2 Travel Visa.
> 
> My experience at Johns Hopkins in the Pediatrics Ophthalmology department was wonderful and I encourage everyone else who is looking for a place to do an elective to apply to Johns Hopkins School of Medicine.
> 
> After you've gotten in touch with the doctor you intend to work with, contact the Office of the Registrar via their website and request the paperwork you need to complete in order to be a *Visiting Medical Student*.
> 
> Last but not least, keep in close contact w/ the registrar's office, the physician and the US Consulate and if you get your Visa for travel to the US, you should be all set to arrive at Johns Hopkins and partake in some of the most intriguing and ground breaking research happening in the United States.
> 
> I apologize if any of this is unclear--I wrote it up in a hurry but please feel free to ask any questions you have!
> 
> Also others who have already done research/clinical electives elsewhere, please let us know about them and how you were able to get them!


I was wondering how people go on about doing electives. What year of medical school did you apply for your electives?


----------



## MastahRiz

No need to quote page long posts! :- )


----------



## arghal

Hi rehan.
. Ok so Im interested in applying for cardiology. I just got done with my first year. So is it suitable for me to apply for a clinical elective at a good medical college in the US now or should i wait it out? Secondly, Research electives scare me because i do not know anything about doing research, the basic procedures. 
Also, how much prior knowledge should i have? because i intend to apply for cardiology or cardio surgery which I already have studied, so should i go for it? 
(maybe of topic)What if I observe a doctor in pakistan would that be helpful? Correct me if i am wrong,Because i realize that medical students in the US have more knowledge then us as they are required to do bachelors. The only way medical students in pakistan can gain an advantage over them is to work in a government hospital here. As they allow students to actually gain more clinical practice and experience, there you are more likely to get sued then to learn anything, as students can not touch patients. My friend in 2nd year of medschool actually got to hold a retractor during a surgery. 

Thank you


----------



## ann00

I am in 4th year DMC and keen interested to join elective in USA. I would like to know before I go for it - do I have to pass USMLE first or it does not matter at all? Your response will be highly appreciated.


----------



## Mehreen*

Hey Rehan and Rizwan. 
Thank you so much for starting this thread! I finally have an idea on how people get a hold of electives, and even understand the difference and significance of both research and clinical electives. 
Yes maybe I sound dumb, but seriously when you're someone who has NO medical background, you are actually kind of lost and rely mostly on other people's experience =s
I am currently a first year at Dow Medical College. We get off for a month in September 2011 and I am considering to do a research elective during that period. You guys have already given us alot of information on this subject, but I still have some queries..
Firstly is the procedure for applying to Aga Khan University's research electives the same as discussed above? I ask because when I was browsing through their site I noticed a few things.
1) You could contact individual doctors of your required field who have ongoing research projects and ask if you can assist them.
or
2) You could mail their research department requesting an elective or any other questions that you may have.

I was simply confused as to what procedure to follow. =/

Also as a first year would it be a good idea to hunt down a research opportunity abroad? Because I do plan on doing clinical electives in the US in the future (Inshallah) but considering the economic climate these days, going in the first year only does not seem such a smart idea.

Your advice would be much appreciated. ^^
Thank you!


----------



## 4003

ann00 said:


> I am in 4th year DMC and keen interested to join elective in USA. I would like to know before I go for it - do I have to pass USMLE first or it does not matter at all? Your response will be highly appreciated.


Some places require it and some don't.


----------



## ann00

Please read the forum rules, thanks. -Moderators.


----------



## MastahRiz

ann00 said:


> I am in 4th year DMC and keen interested to join elective in USA. I would like to know before I go for it - do I have to pass USMLE first or it does not matter at all? Your response will be highly appreciated.


Nope! No USMLE required for electives.



Mehreen* said:


> Hey Rehan and Rizwan.
> Thank you so much for starting this thread! I finally have an idea on how people get a hold of electives, and even understand the difference and significance of both research and clinical electives.
> Yes maybe I sound dumb, but seriously when you're someone who has NO medical background, you are actually kind of lost and rely mostly on other people's experience =s
> I am currently a first year at Dow Medical College. We get off for a month in September 2011 and I am considering to do a research elective during that period. You guys have already given us alot of information on this subject, but I still have some queries..
> Firstly is the procedure for applying to Aga Khan University's research electives the same as discussed above? I ask because when I was browsing through their site I noticed a few things.
> 1) You could contact individual doctors of your required field who have ongoing research projects and ask if you can assist them.
> or
> 2) You could mail their research department requesting an elective or any other questions that you may have.
> 
> I was simply confused as to what procedure to follow. =/
> 
> Also as a first year would it be a good idea to hunt down a research opportunity abroad? Because I do plan on doing clinical electives in the US in the future (Inshallah) but considering the economic climate these days, going in the first year only does not seem such a smart idea.
> 
> Your advice would be much appreciated. ^^
> Thank you!



You may as well try both approaches. Anytime is a good time for electives.


----------



## inception

ok people i have read all the 307 posts i am a second year student my queries are
1 what should i include on my cv for research electives
2 i plan to be a medical specialist or neurophysician insha Allah so what sort of professors should i be sending out mails to


----------



## mihirkakara

Hii there,

I am a 2nd year medical student from india.
I will be going to the US this summer 2011 for the purpose of greencard. I will have to be staying there for around 2 months. I want to do something productive in that time, and I'm planning on doing a research elective somewhere. I'm interested in neuroscience and cancer biology.

Can you please suggest good places, and more importantly, how to go about applying for the RE?

Thank you.


----------



## Cutaneoplast?

Acidian said:


> Well I have not graduated yet (that should happen 2012). I attend the University of. So I am trying to find doctors who work in the US who have graduated and got their MD from the.
> I am trying to find more doctors. Till now I have about 5 people. I only emailed 1 person though as a trial. As I said I got an acknowledgement and still waiting for further instructions.
> 
> Thank you for all this priceless info, comet.


Hey Acidian, do you use MSN Messenger or email, PM me please for it please. I want to discuss something with you. Thanks!


----------



## zeeshi16

hey all I am just starting my 3rd year n am interested in doing clinical elective in th US.I wanted to ask which year is the best for doing an elective.Can I do it in my #rd year


----------



## zeeshi16

3rd year sorry


----------



## TalhaMahmood

Hi, I wanted to know If all the electives for IMGs were payed electives. thanks!


----------



## kaz_91

hey rehan and rizwan, you guys have mentioned how we should choose research electives on the basis of probability of being published but how could someone ever be sure of that also most universities give only about a month's holiday which is the time that we have for electives which is not a significant amount of time, so as you mentioned before doing 6 weeks worth of electives how benficial was that and did you get a publication out of it? thanks. i've gone thorugh the entire thread im pretty sure im not repeating anything sorry if thats the case.


----------



## MastahRiz

zeeshi16 said:


> hey all I am just starting my 3rd year n am interested in doing clinical elective in th US.I wanted to ask which year is the best for doing an elective.Can I do it in my #rd year


Any time after starting 3rd year is a good time for clinical electives.



TalhaMahmood said:


> Hi, I wanted to know If all the electives for IMGs were payed electives. thanks!


No, electives are not paid.



kaz_91 said:


> hey rehan and rizwan, you guys have mentioned how we should choose research electives on the basis of probability of being published but how could someone ever be sure of that also most universities give only about a month's holiday which is the time that we have for electives which is not a significant amount of time, so as you mentioned before doing 6 weeks worth of electives how benficial was that and did you get a publication out of it? thanks. i've gone thorugh the entire thread im pretty sure im not repeating anything sorry if thats the case.


Six weeks is plenty of time to get published as long as you work hard enough. Find out about short projects which may be available for you.


----------



## zeeshi16

thanx mastahriz for the rep.
I really dun have any sort of clinical experience except for the basic stuff IM/IV injections canulas etc. so can i still get a clinical elective and should i mention to them that i dun have any clinical experience.


----------



## MastahRiz

First read the forum rules. Thanks.


----------



## zeeshi16

Ok here is my query without the shorthand if that was what you meant.

I really dont have any sort of clinical experience except for the basic stuff IM/IV injections canulas etc. So can i still get a clinical elective and should i mention to them that i dont have any clinical experience


----------



## MastahRiz

That's fine. For a clinical elective I suggest that you know how to take/present a history and perform a general physical exam + abdominal exam. Learn additional examination procedures if you have time and make sure to review the basic sciences behind whichever field you will perform your elective in.

If you're going to apply for a cardiology elective then be sure to read anatomy/physio/biochem of the CVS before starting.


----------



## zeeshi16

thanks a lot


----------



## nikole95

Neurotic1234 said:


> ohh lets c..my elective is at the Kennedy Krieger Institute..i guess thats not a part of the Johns Hopkins Neurology Dept...i think its a separate entity..so the chances of workin wid the neurosurgery dept seems very limited.
> 
> from wut u said, i presume ur friend wants to do a residency in neurosurg. did the elective at JHU in NS help him? If yes, in wut way was it beneficial?
> 
> thanx..ur very fast at replying!


I can't stress enough how much it has helped him. Because of his research elective this past summer, his faculty advisor is allowing him to return back for clinical electives in neurosurgery this coming winter, and also just putting that he did a research elective on his CV and that he received an LOR from a faculty advisor at JHU has allowed him to be accepted for electives at the University of Pittsburgh and Mayo Clinic just to name a few. A great LOR from JHU can open doors!


----------



## saadfaiz92

Rehan, I have a question. Which year were you in when you went for your first elective? Thanks.


----------



## wiiii

Ok i'm new here , no questions at all "at least not yet" ,, may i say that this topic has been a tremendous help to me ,, u guys set a great example for generosity ,, all the members here who answered all these questions, really thank you from all my heart ,, i wish u accept me as ur younger brother and it'd be an honor to me to learn more from u all


----------



## Guest

This is really amazing. Pretty nice post up there...actually i have been accepted for an elective at JHU in Neurology. The elective is a research elective. Was wondering how you were able to participate in clinical activities being an international student.


----------



## LatinGeorge

*Elective pointers..*

Hey guys, first of all congrats to the people who got research and elective opportunities.

I got a clinical elective in a university (2 months), all i can say is email every program that sounds interesting for you. I wrote hundreds of emails and hundreds of ... WE DO NOT TAKE IMG's etc etc .. so dont be discourage, someone can open you a door.


I read the entire thread, but didnt find anything about what im going to ask..

Once you get the elective,

Can someone please advice me in DO's and Dont's
I really like the program ill attend, i want to impress them. Im going for 2 internal medicine specialties, any advice would help.

I've looked everywhere, just got the basic :

1. Be the first to arrive and the last to leave.
2. Be proactive and volunteer for extra work
3. Dont miss a day even if they tell u
4. Know your patients.

But any other specific pearls of wisdom would be well recieved!!#happy


----------



## tanim18

thank you for the useful information. but I was wondering when did you apply for research/clinical elective-was it during your 5th year or your intern year after your final prof. Im going to start my 3rd year soon inshallah and I was wondering when would be the best time to start applying for electives.


----------



## izzah.vasim

hey rehan,im a 4th yr medical student at KING EDWARD MEDICAL UNIVERSITY,LAHORE,PAKISTAN..i wnted to knw that wether applyin to john hopkins for research electives requires USMLE STEP1 or not???


----------



## Sulaman

Rehan i would like to ask you that how much on average would i have to spend on my 6 weeks elective?


----------



## talib

@ topic. I am hearing that Shifa now gives breaks for Electives to their student's after 2nd year..?

And also, since you said that it's important to take part in a research elective that you can get published in, can you please name the places where there are frequent publications, and that would give me a better chance over other IMG's applying.


----------



## Electives USA

talib said:


> @ topic. I am hearing that Shifa now gives breaks for Electives to their student's after 2nd year..?
> 
> And also, since you said that it's important to take part in a research elective that you can get published in, can you please name the places where there are frequent publications, and that would give me a better chance over other IMG's applying.


It's doubtful that you get breaks just for electives. You get a 2 month vacation between 4th and final year that most students use for electives but since the college intends these breaks to be used for clinical electives it wouldn't make sense that they also give you a similar break after 2nd year when you haven't even started clinical rotations. (Moral of the story: don't pay attention to rumors.)

As for frequent publications, that's something that changes all the time. You should check out pubmed or US Top Hospitals and dig around to see who are the big names and big hospitals and who publishes a lot and in which field. You can find all that kind of information from faculty web pages.

There isn't a single or even a list of ten hospitals that are going to help you get into a residency program just because they publish. Any place that publishes (and there are literally thousands of them) will get you published and help you as compared to others.


----------



## MastahRiz

Sulaman said:


> Rehan i would like to ask you that how much on average would i have to spend on my 6 weeks elective?


Without taking into account your flight or housing, you would probably need about 400- 500 dollars / month for food.


----------



## Electives USA

MastahRiz said:


> Without taking into account your flight or housing, you would probably need about 400- 500 dollars / month for food.


Housing probably another 500 to 1200 depending on where you go and where you stay. 

Flight is pretty variable.


----------



## Electives USA

izzah.vasim said:


> hey rehan,im a 4th yr medical student at KING EDWARD MEDICAL UNIVERSITY,LAHORE,PAKISTAN..i wnted to knw that wether applyin to john hopkins for research electives requires USMLE STEP1 or not???


You don't need to have passed your USMLE's to participate in a research elective.


----------



## Wajiha Tauqir

Assalamo alaikum  Thank you its really helpful..
I am too new in here,just took my exam of first year of MBBS, If you can guide me about studies..? Like i have plans for USMLE and further research but i need guidance as i m too new in this field..
I hope a reply soon =)


----------



## karan

hello neurotic1234 and rehan.....i am new to this forum found u guyz on google....found this page extremley useful....and before i ask you my querries i would like to congratulate both of you for gainin an elective at jhu...#happy..u guyz hit the bulls eye...


i am currently in my 3rd year and will entering 4th year in jan '12 and i am very much keen on doing surgery..especially neuro and have been reading different forums..and obviously ive realised tht getting surgery in usa is very difficult...and a research/clinical elective in neurology will go a long way to help me..

wt i wld like to know is...what all did you submit to the university for your neuro elective..i mean apart from your 4 years med scholl certificates and your deans noc..like your usmle score,other credentials...coz i dont have any so far...and i am good in grades..though not extraordinary...but i can work hard in my final year and step1..i am really ready on doin whatever it takes to get a neuro elective at jhu...

please any wisdom from you end...will make me feel much better and help m a gr8 deal....

thnx...#happy


----------



## MastahRiz

^Please read the forum rules. Posting like that is not allowed. Thanks.


----------



## kichimu

Hello Rizwan,

I'm a Shifa student. I wanted to apply for an elective and I met with Dr. Ali. He told me I should get in touch with you. Could I possibly get a contact email or something? Thankyou.


----------



## R.T

HI, i just came accross this post and it seems to be very helpful! I'm currently a 2nd year med student at the ziauddin university in karachi ,Pakistan . I'm really looking forward to apply for a research elective abroad by thend of this year for which i need to start applying now. From a good guidance through my seniors ive come to a conclusion that a an official research elective wont be of any use since they dont usually take people from 2nd year and the ebst way to do itis to find emails and mail all the doctors 1 If anyone could please help me and get me started with the process will be really really appreciated , regard , rabya!


----------



## mahmoud selim

R.T said:


> HI, i just came accross this post and it seems to be very helpful! I'm currently a 2nd year med student at the ziauddin university in karachi ,Pakistan . I'm really looking forward to apply for a research elective abroad by thend of this year for which i need to start applying now. From a good guidance through my seniors ive come to a conclusion that a an official research elective wont be of any use since they dont usually take people from 2nd year and the ebst way to do itis to find emails and mail all the doctors 1 If anyone could please help me and get me started with the process will be really really appreciated , regard , rabya!


Hey Rabya
i think if you read the first post in this thread by Rehan, you would find the necessary information you are looking for. I'm also a 2nd year med student in cairo-egypt and im looking for the same thing for next summer, so I'm following the steps mentioned by rehan and i hope it would work for both of us. best luck


----------



## WANABEE

Hello Everyone,
I am a Third Year Medical student in Pakistan. I want to go for clinical electives in a US hospital in summers of 2012. I want to get residency in 'General Surgery' in a US hospital in Future INSHALLAH.
I want to know that at this stage (3rd Year M.B.B.S) which field would be the best for me to do clinical electives so that in the future my chances of getting a U.S Residency becomes bright in "General Surgery"?
As General Surgery is taught in Fifth Year M.B.B.S in Pakistan would it be the right option for me to apply for clinical electives in "General Surgery in 3rd Year"? If not then which field would be the most suitable?
I am expecting help from everyone who has an answer especially Rehan bhai  or Rizwan bhai 
Thanks a lot in advance


----------



## WANABEE

*Help Needed*

Hello Everyone,
I am a Third Year Medical student in Pakistan. I want to go for clinical electives in a US hospital in summers of 2012. I want to get residency in 'General Surgery' in a US hospital in Future INSHALLAH.
I want to know that at this stage (3rd Year M.B.B.S) which field would be the best for me to do clinical electives so that in the future my chances of getting a U.S Residency becomes bright in "General Surgery"?
As General Surgery is taught in Fifth Year M.B.B.S in Pakistan would it be the right option for me to apply for clinical electives in "General Surgery in 3rd Year"? If not then which field would be the most suitable?
I am expecting help from everyone who has an answer especially Rehan bhai  or Rizwan bhai 
Thanks a lot in advance #happy


----------



## Belu

Rehan, thanks a lot for all the information you've posted it was really helpful for me!
I know this post it's really old, but it still helps people who are searching for clinical elective opportunities. I am trying to contact the student coordinator in JHMS but i could't get to her yet. I have a question about johns hopkins elective rotations, and maybe you could help me..... in their website they have a link "visiting students policy" which I entered and read < and they actually accept non-LCME accredited students.... but i'm not sure if they accept any of them or students from schools that have a previous arrangement with JHMS.
thank you very much, and hope to contact you soon....
Belen.


----------



## Muhammad waqa

HEY REHAN BHAI.I M JUST DNE WD MY 3RD YEAR EXAMS FROM AMC ABTBD,PAKISTAN.HOPEFULLY I WUD GET CLINICAL ELECTIVES IN CARDIOLOGY DEPT NEWZEALAND AS MY APPLICATION IS UNDER DA PROCESS AND I HAD APPLIED IN TIME AND MY EXAM MARKS TO DATE ARE EXTRAORDINARY ALHAMDULILLAH.........I HAVE 2 QUESTIONS (1)AS FAR AS THE RESEARCH ELECTIVES AT JHU ARE CONCERNED DO I NEED TO SUBMIT OTHER REQUIRED DOCUMENTS ALONG WD APPLICATION FORM AT DA TIME OF APPLICATION TO REGISTRAR'S OFFICE OR THE OTHER DOCUMENTS NEED TO BE SUBMITTED ONLY AFTER AN ELECTIVE PLACEMENT IS CONFIRMED (2)I HAVE HEARD THAT USMLE CAN HELP ONE NOT ONLY GETTING RESIDENCY IN USA BT THEY R ALSO VALID FR NEWZEALAND??????Z IT TRUE????????BECX IF IT Z SO THEN I SHALL BETTER FOCUS ON AUKLAND'S ELECTIVES BECX USA IS ALWAYS A BIG ASK AS COMPARED TO OTHER COUNTRIES.................THATS IT.AND YEAH,REHAAN BHAI IF U DONT HAVE ANY INFO ABT MY 2ND QUESTION PLX CAN U GET IT CONFIRMED FR ME FRM SM GENUINE AUTHORITY OR SOMEBDY INFORMED ABT THAT.ACTUALLY I COULDNT FOUND THAT SORT OF INFO FRM NET AND MY SENIORS SAY THAT SO.............


----------



## possimpible

Rehan said:


> My experience at Johns Hopkins in the Pediatrics Ophthalmology department was wonderful and I encourage everyone else who is looking for a place to do an elective to apply to Johns Hopkins School of Medicine.
> !


I got accepted for a research elective in JHU for five weeks in paedriatic cardiology. The doc who accepted me is a Phd. I really wanted this elective but now i don't know if it's going to be of any help. The doctor said someone in the group is going to be mentor me while I'm there. What if in the end I don't even get a good LOR? Is it worth it?


----------



## MalteseMed

*electives database*

Hi,

I know this reply is 6 years late, but I've just found out on the aamc electives database that John's Hopkins doesn't accept International students for electives. Is this a recent development or is this information false?


----------



## medico89

Hi Rehan,

lovely post Do you know anything about Cooks County John H. Stroger Hospital in Chicago? I am contemplating doing a peds cardio elective there. I wanted to know if you could tell me something about Cooks County ? 

Thanks a ton


----------



## ComputerKid

MalteseMed said:


> Hi,
> 
> I know this reply is 6 years late, but I've just found out on the aamc electives database that John's Hopkins doesn't accept International students for electives. Is this a recent development or is this information false?


I'm pretty sure this is a recent development. Pretty unfortunate too.


----------



## Sarah08

Has anyone applied through the American Elective website? If anyone has, please let me know I would love to hear about your experience! Also, I know electives are not possible once you have completed your final year of medical school, but are they allowed in Pakistan? Like can you do an elective in Pakistan after graduation? 
Thanks!


----------



## raviganda

*College Affiliation Needed?*

hello rehan you have been really informative .. but i have one question .. i read on john hopkins site ,they had mentioned that visitor students can only be from institutions affliated to hopkins .. so my question is whether ur clg in pakistan was affliated to hopkins or there is no such condition thanks in advance


----------



## ayesha_

Why's this topic not stickied any more?


----------



## Fatima 93

*3rd Year Electives*

Hello Rehan. Thankyou for the awesome post. I have a Question, how many weeks of USCE is required to land a residency in US? so that we can plan our clinical electives accordingly. As, you know in Pakistan, we start our core clerkships in 3rd year which we finish by Final year, is there any chance that we can obtain a US clinical elective before final year? do you know of any US hospital/university which accepts 3rd or 4th year international medical students?


----------



## Salman.Qureshi

Informative post indeed. Thank you for sharing.


----------



## Mian Shafaat

I want to know that how can a 4th year MBBS student of Pak join any good reputed hospital of USA for purpose of electives?


----------



## rizwan94

Mian Shafaat said:


> I want to know that how can a 4th year MBBS student of Pak join any good reputed hospital of USA for purpose of electives?


You could use AAMC's EEC to search up elective opportunites all over the US that accept international medical students. Everything you need to know is given over there. Here's the link: 

https://services.aamc.org/eec/students/

Good Luck.


----------



## Azeez Ullah

I'm Azeez Ullah from Khyber medical collage ,i'm 1st year student ,i'm interested in research work very much , I really wana contribute something speacil to medical world in field of neurology . I has not enough knowledge about it but i wana start work on it from now .I also want to qualify USMLE as well ....so what should i need to do for these two things to achieve them ,right from now ................


----------



## desaarz

Aoa rehan...what was the topic of your research?


----------



## Rajesh Saagar

Thanks for sharing your good experience with us! This would definitely help the young minds that are aiming high to achieve something in their career.


----------



## r_sidd

*Electives In Australia Vs US*

What is the standing in the US of an elective done in an Australian hospital? Would a LOR from Australian doctor be considered equal to one from a physician in the US, when you apply for US residency?

Thanks.


----------



## mandeepkumar

Hello Rehan,
I am student of MBBS from Pakistan and completed my 1st of MBBS year. I am currently enrolled in 2nd year. I am looking for observerhip/research electives. 
Is that possible to do observership/research electives in John Hopkins during my 2nd year ?
STEP 1 OR TOFEOL REQUIRED OR NOT FOR RESEARCH ELECTIVES ?
Anyone know which hospital accepts 2nd year students for observership/research electives. ? 
Please share your ideas.


----------

