# joining AMC as a foreign student



## FIA (Aug 8, 2010)

AOA everyone......i applied in NUST (AMC) as a foreign student(i am a pakistani ,did my Fsc from outside Pakistan last year)....just got selected 2 days before ...i wanted to know if i should join it or not because its too expensive(for foreign students).....anybody has an idea what is the ranking of AMC nowadays in Pakistan ???


----------



## GaRfield (Feb 14, 2009)

FIA said:


> AOA everyone......i applied in NUST (AMC) as a foreign student(i am a pakistani ,did my Fsc from outside Pakistan last year)....just got selected 2 days before ...i wanted to know if i should join it or not because its too expensive(for foreign students).....anybody has an idea what is the ranking of AMC nowadays in Pakistan ???



hey whats you merit position. out of what?


----------



## FIA (Aug 8, 2010)

its 9........out of 49 foreign students.......i got admission in MBBS...


----------



## FIA (Aug 8, 2010)

should i join it .......actually i havent given my gov test yet.....cause in pakhtunkhwa tsts are delayed due to flood......and i have already wasted my 1 year...


----------



## saadfaiz92 (Oct 9, 2009)

Join it..I think it's better than waiting..good luck future classmate #wink


----------



## GaRfield (Feb 14, 2009)

saadfaiz92 said:


> Join it..I think it's better than waiting..good luck future classmate #wink


fia which country did you come from?


----------



## FIA (Aug 8, 2010)

*Read the forum rules. Thanks.
*


----------



## saadfaiz92 (Oct 9, 2009)

Nope I'm joining this year..also on SAT international seat..my merit was 19th lol


----------



## FIA (Aug 8, 2010)

nice.......so you got admission in mbbs or bds??


----------



## FIA (Aug 8, 2010)

FIA said:


> *Read the forum rules. Thanks.
> *


thanks.....i will take care next time.


----------



## Catalyst13 (Sep 9, 2009)

NUST is i believe second within the islamabad/rawalpindi area...this is of course an opinion of most of the people who i have met and not a fact but if you like the area you should go for it


----------



## saadfaiz92 (Oct 9, 2009)

Catalyst13 said:


> NUST is i believe second within the islamabad/rawalpindi area...this is of course an opinion of most of the people who i have met and not a fact but if you like the area you should go for it


so what's first then?


----------



## Catalyst13 (Sep 9, 2009)

I would put shifa at first and then at third islamic international. This is of course a personal opinion and the final decision is as always, up to you


----------



## saadfaiz92 (Oct 9, 2009)

Can you give some reasons why you'd put shifa first? thanks


----------



## FIA (Aug 8, 2010)

I came from Saudi Arabia....


----------



## FIA (Aug 8, 2010)

Catalyst13 said:


> I would put shifa at first and then at third islamic international. This is of course a personal opinion and the final decision is as always, up to you [/quo
> 
> 
> Shifa is better than AMC???...last year i got addmission in shifa ....but i did'nt join it because i wanted to join any government college and unfortunately i did not get the admission there.....i have applied in shifa again this year..its results are not out yet(expected in two days)....so can you please guide why you gave shifa the 1st position??thanks..


----------



## saadfaiz92 (Oct 9, 2009)

You already wasted a year...no need to waste anymore


----------



## FIA (Aug 8, 2010)

saadfaiz92 said:


> You already wasted a year...no need to waste anymore


 

ya...and wasteing my one year was all alone my decision......so my family wont let me do that again...but i am still confused...did you apply in shifa?


----------



## FIA (Aug 8, 2010)

i got 67 % in shifa entrance test this year...last year i got the admission even at 54%....so AMC or Shifa???somebody help....


----------



## Catalyst13 (Sep 9, 2009)

If you are sure you will get into Shifa then i would opt for Shifa then, for several reasons. I'm assuming you are a foreigner, so firstly Shifa has the better name, it has a very nice hospital right next to it, and its cheaper than NUST.

and when is your admission fee due to nust? :S


----------



## FIA (Aug 8, 2010)

last date of submission of fees is 18 august in AMC...and shifa's final merit list will be made after 31 august..shifa has a better name than AMC outside Pakistan???

and i am a pakistani  ..i did my FSc from Saudi Arabia...


----------



## Catalyst13 (Sep 9, 2009)

so you applyed as an overseas student?


----------



## FIA (Aug 8, 2010)

Catalyst13 said:


> so you applyed as an overseas student?


 

yes..


----------



## Catalyst13 (Sep 9, 2009)

Then the price thing doesn't really apply to you i guess, but at Shifa you will get the social aspect of schools which many of the other schools miss...you are going to be spending 4 years in school, you don't want it to be boring lol

but it varies from person to person, some people like it, some don't


----------



## FIA (Aug 8, 2010)

Catalyst13 said:


> Then the price thing doesn't really apply to you i guess, but at Shifa you will get the social aspect of schools which many of the other schools miss...you are going to be spending 4 years in school, you don't want it to be boring lol
> 
> but it varies from person to person, some people like it, some don't


 

Price thing does matter because i am paying in dollars....do you have any idea about the environment of army medical??


----------



## GaRfield (Feb 14, 2009)

FIA said:


> Price thing does matter because i am paying in dollars....do you have any idea about the environment of army medical??



Im from saudi too. i would say go to amc any day. its run by the army. it wil never give you any problems even if you plan to stay in paki.

shifa is private and new compared to amc. and in pak the older the college the more you're respected as a graduate.


----------



## Catalyst13 (Sep 9, 2009)

FIA said:


> Price thing does matter because i am paying in dollars....do you have any idea about the environment of army medical??


the environment of army medical is actually quite conservative



GaRfield said:


> Im from saudi too. i would say go to amc any day. its run by the army. it wil never give you any problems even if you plan to stay in paki.
> 
> shifa is private and new compared to amc. and in pak the older the college the more you're respected as a graduate.


lol, you can not say that a specific college is better just purely based upon age. I would personally rather go to a newer, not brand new but like 5 or something year, old college than a 40 year old one, due to the brand new facilities, cleanliness and such 

and you can go ahead and ask anyone in islamabad and ask which one is better, almost all the time you will get the same reply


----------



## GaRfield (Feb 14, 2009)

Catalyst13 said:


> the environment of army medical is actually quite conservative
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I understand what you're saying. I'm basing my personal opinion on an intense understanding of both the international as well as the local perspective. 

The age factor may not be the case if you go to the u.s after steps but it certainly is an issue in pakistan itself. Go to any FCPS professor or any well recognized name and ask them what is better. The first thing they would go like is "beta amc was established in the 1970's and shifa is what 5 6 yrs old?" 

let me clear it out for you. NUST has been the only university ranked in the top 400 Universities of the world by the Time Higher Education Sup UK.
The ranking is based on its health sciences and engineering programs together.

Lets say someone graduates from AMC. After 5 years and one year of housejob he/she will have no troubles whatsoever settling into the pakistani curriculum, be that fcps or working as Medical Officer (M.O) in govt hosps. As far as i know private graduates can't even do housejobs in govt hospitals anymore (Its better to do it in govt because of patient contact/exposure).

Plus a student of shifa told me that in the 5th year wards you dont even get to touch a patient because its a private hospital and patients would never want a medical student touching them. you can only see. Whereas in the govt hospitals you can perform the diagnostic procedures and sometimes small procedures on patients.

If an amc student wants to go abroad he would have no problem again since it has all the recognition shifa has if not more.

The point is, if you graduate from amc you are securing your pakistani as well as international career. Think of it, 16,000 people apply to amc every year for 150 seats and in shifa only about 2000 apply for 100 seats. 

Again its your own decision to make and no one can force their opinions onto you.


----------



## Catalyst13 (Sep 9, 2009)

GaRfield said:


> I understand what you're saying. I'm basing my personal opinion on an intense understanding of both the international as well as the local perspective.
> 
> The age factor may not be the case if you go to the u.s after steps but it certainly is an issue in pakistan itself. Go to any FCPS professor or any well recognized name and ask them what is better. The first thing they would go like is "beta amc was established in the 1970's and shifa is what 5 6 yrs old?"
> 
> ...



The 16,000 people applying for 150 seats in AMC whereas 2000 apply for shifa is purely based on the cost not because people don't think it is as good. Even for locals Shifa is asking for the 6.5 lac and 2.3 lac for the hostels so thats almost 9 lac excluding cost of food, books and ect. and most of the people in pakistan have difficulty paying that much. Furthermore, after house jobs this is a foreign student that is applying, i doubt he would want to even work at a mesely 30,000 rupees a month in a god forsaken governmental college. At that price it would take like a hundred years to even make back the amount of money you spend for medical college.

Im not gonna argue because i could really care where you go lol, so as always it's your choice


----------



## GaRfield (Feb 14, 2009)

Catalyst13 said:


> The 16,000 people applying for 150 seats in AMC whereas 2000 apply for shifa is purely based on the cost not because people don't think it is as good. Even for locals Shifa is asking for the 6.5 lac and 2.3 lac for the hostels so thats almost 9 lac excluding cost of food, books and ect. and most of the people in pakistan have difficulty paying that much. Furthermore, after house jobs this is a foreign student that is applying, i doubt he would want to even work at a mesely 30,000 rupees a month in a god forsaken governmental college. At that price it would take like a hundred years to even make back the amount of money you spend for medical college.
> 
> Im not gonna argue because i could really care where you go lol, so as always it's your choice



Maybe these foreigners are happy with 30k/month for the time being until they earn their graduate and professional specialized degrees. You do realize that 30k/month is the salary they get.
Once they've done fcps they open their own clinics and earn way more than an american practicing physician in the U.S. Go to Dr. Haroon rasheed's clinic, he probably earns the american salary of a surgeon in a week sitting here in pakistan.

If cost was an issue then our senior doctors in pakistan would talk about cost, but no they dont. they talk about reputation, alumni reputation and research example of the past graduates.

K.E is so popular because k.e's graduates have gone on to prove that they know their medicine, by makin inventions, example of which is ommaya reservoir.

people consider shifa for social life and facilities which dont matter after you've graduated. This is in the long run. If private colleges were so upto the mark then foreigners, the real foreigners would not come to k.e amc they would go to shifa and other private colleges with facilities. But no their government sends them to govt schools in pakistan paying the same 10k dollars/month instead of sending them to shifa which would cost 14k dollars. Shifa is also in the list for those foreign countries btw. Again for these countries money is not an issue. so they wouldnt care if its 10k or 14k. its the reputation of the senior classes graduating.


----------



## saadfaiz92 (Oct 9, 2009)

Most of what Garfields saying is pretty much what every single one of my teachers and seniors have said. I mean I want to go to Shifa due to the 'discipline' factor in AMC. But am I really willing to get a degree not as recognized just so I can enjoy the next 5 years of my life? The cost thing is a factor, but in the end the people who get into AMC find a way to pay for it. I told my Dad I wanted to go to Shifa, and he made me talk to at least 4 doctors (all who work in America) who said my best bet would be AMC. Why? A couple of reasons. AMC is far better recognized abroad, people have actually heard of it in other countries, The degree brings more prestige, it has MUCH MUCH more hands-on experience; I think it gets the most cadavers, and it has almost 5-6 specialized hospitals affialiated with it. I mean in the end the best medical school is the one which provides you with the best education and hands-on experience right? I'm willing to join an uber-disciplined school for the next 5 years since it guarantees I will get more experience in the medical field. But in the ending it depends on the hard work of the student, not just to get the degree but to pass the USMLES and go to America. I mean of course if you do electives and what-not you have a better chance than someone who studies in a better medical college but has less electives. About the pay, it's not all about money to some people. But if you do look at money an example would be of 2 friends. Both of their dads are gastroenterologists. One of them works in a Hospital in USA. The other works in a government owned hospital during the day and operates a medium sized clinic at night. Believe me the second one is much better off. Either way if you open up a clinic in Pakistan or USA you're bound to make alot of money. But if you are becoming a doctor just to make more than '30k a year'.....I encourage you to tell that to the interviewers of the schools/hospitals.

Edit: I've visited the Shifa Campus. The basketball court has been converted to a parking lot, there are cracks in the walls, and there is one big room where everyone chills. Not exactly state-of-the-art facilities in my opinion.


----------



## GaRfield (Feb 14, 2009)

GaRfield said:


> Maybe these foreigners are happy with 30k/month for the time being until they earn their graduate and professional specialized degrees. You do realize that 30k/month is the salary they get.
> Once they've done fcps they open their own clinics and earn way more than an american practicing physician in the U.S. Go to Dr. Haroon rasheed's clinic, he probably earns the american salary of a surgeon in a week sitting here in pakistan.
> 
> If cost was an issue then our senior doctors in pakistan would talk about cost, but no they dont. they talk about reputation, alumni reputation and research example of the past graduates.
> ...


10k/yr**


----------



## GaRfield (Feb 14, 2009)

GaRfield said:


> 10k/yr**


saadfaiz, thank you. good to see some sensible people here. 

The 30k/month is a requirement that most doctors here want to do. They do it because it creates reputation for them. That 30k probably goes into their petrol costs associated with going to the govt hospitals. Their real income is from clinic at night.

But they need to work at a govt hospital so they get recognized after their degrees and create a niche for themselves.

Medical profession in pakistan is all about practicing in your own clinic. You cannot dream to live off the salary of a meager 30k/month. if that was the only way of income in pakistan then doctors wouldn't own bmw's and benz. they would be riding on motorcycles with their family. Because a PTCL employee makes 30k/month and cannot afford renting a house let alone a car.

People who want to understand will get my point.


----------



## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

GaRfield said:


> Plus a student of shifa told me that in the 5th year wards you dont even get to touch a patient because its a private hospital and patients would never want a medical student touching them. you can only see. Whereas in the govt hospitals you can perform the diagnostic procedures and sometimes small procedures on patients.


Completely untrue. One out of 100 private patients may refuse. In the off chance that it does, there are always more patients to see whether they're private, clinic, or ER.

My two cents on the rest of the thread: If you go to school in Pakistan it doesn't matter which medical school you go to, it just matters how much effort you put in.


----------



## Umair Naeem (Aug 11, 2010)

Army medical college is better than shifa because most of the intelligent students study in AMC and some dull students study in shifa


----------



## mubashir888 (Aug 12, 2010)

Offcourse Amc is better , becouse i am may join it this year #wink
There are thousands of reasons for that like amc is an army institution, where as Shifa is a private college,Anyone with a bag of money can get in SHifa but even Fozia Fahab's Nephew could not buy her way in AMC#grin ...
Its all About merit and Standard
I am Still making a decision though ... punjab GOvt colleges or Amc #happy


----------



## syntaX (Jun 16, 2010)

Umair Naeem said:


> Army medical college is better than shifa because most of the intelligent students study in AMC and some dull students study in shifa


Excuse me? Have u surveyed? 

you're saying ''MOST'' intelligent students study at amc, meaning the remaining are dull. Likewise, you're saying ''SOME'' dull students study in shifa, then the majority are the ''intelligent'' ones ..... 
How on earth does this prove that Amc's better than shifa?


----------



## mubashir888 (Aug 12, 2010)

syntaX said:


> Excuse me? Have u surveyed?
> 
> you're saying ''MOST'' intelligent students study at amc, meaning the remaining are dull. Likewise, you're saying ''SOME'' dull students study in shifa, then the majority are the ''intelligent'' ones .....
> How on earth does this prove that Amc's better than shifa?


Well u can check ..there are only 50 seats for NUST cadets i.e on open Merit in amc and 16K students applied#shocked ...So only the Cream is Chosen ..SO u can Change that "MOSt" to All intelligent students #laugh 

AMC is better and there is no confusion in that ,,Check the Faculty,facilites.Standard,world Ranking In Short Everything...

Shifa is No match for Amc(no offense) being a private collge and admitting students who could not get admission in any goverment colleges #grin


----------



## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Some of the stereotypical views being expressed in this thread may have been accurate a few years back but things are changing in Pakistan, and for the better. Merit is definitely the only standard anyone will accept these days. If somewhere one student slides through the cracks on connections then that's only one student, and it *can *happen at any college, whether you know about it or not.

Saying only one particular type of student is admitted into any one specific school is completely untrue. I graduated from Shifa and I never applied to government schools, so it would be a completely inaccurate assumption to say I only went to Shifa because I could not get into a government school. In fact, Shifa was the only Pakistani medical college that I applied to. The last time someone bought their way into Shifa was probably right around the time that people were buying their way into other schools as well, and I'd bet that it was more than 10 years ago.

AMC and Shifa are both great schools, however I can list at least 10 students from Shifa off the top of my head that are currently doing residencies in the US (ten more who will be starting residencies soon) while I have yet to see a student from AMC practicing anywhere other than Pakistan. AMC students frequently come to the US for fellowships however only under the mandatory condition that they'll return to Pakistan once that fellowship is completed. To some people, the number of graduates that go on to practice medicine abroad is an excellent measure of how reputable the school they came from is.

Let's try and keep the discussion factual, or at the very least based on educated opinions. If you're going to mention world ranking then please provide a reference. I don't see how this is possible since no current world-wide list of top rated medical colleges even exists. Much of Shifa's senior faculty has been trained abroad in either the US or UK. How many of AMC's have done more than a fellowship abroad?

If 16,000 people apply to NUST that doesn't mean that everyone that applied is a genius. You can look around this forum to see the number of people who regardless of their scores, fancy their chances by applying anyway.

Shifa does get less applicants. They are a smaller college, less widely known, not as prestigious as older institutions, but they are also more expensive than every medical college other than AKU, and that too is a deterrent for many, not an incentive.


----------



## syntaX (Jun 16, 2010)

MastahRiz said:


> .
> 
> AMC and Shifa are both great schools, however I can list at least 10 students from Shifa off the top of my head that are currently doing residencies in the US (ten more who will be starting residencies soon) while I have yet to see a student from AMC practicing anywhere other than Pakistan. AMC students frequently come to the US for fellowships however only under the mandatory condition that they'll return to Pakistan once that fellowship is completed. To some people, the number of graduates that go on to practice medicine abroad is an excellent measure of how reputable the school they came from is.


:thumbsup:


----------



## saadfaiz92 (Oct 9, 2009)

I've been talking to my sister about AMC, She's in her third year. She told me it really sucked atmosphere wise. After her 1st year she even applied again to Aga Khan just so she could get out of AMC. I'm worried now, If I get into Shifa I want to go there, but the problem is that the last date for submission of AMC fees is on the 18th. Can someone give me some advice on what to do?


----------



## arsalan1991 (Aug 31, 2010)

AMC doesnt suck, people say its one of the best. 

How do i apply for hostel accomodation at AMC? im joining this year.


----------

