# research electives for second year students



## Najam87 (Apr 30, 2006)

hello guys!
this is a wonderfull forum. Does anyone here knows that you can get paid electives (accomodation, travel etc) in the USA? Anyone who does pls come up and tell us all about the experience.


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## Natacha (Feb 19, 2006)

Oh wow! Really? Yeah, I'd love to hear about that.... I would love to know what program offer it and where is it located and if its offered to everyone? Thanks for making us aware of this Najam87.


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## Rehan (Jan 26, 2006)

Najam87,

Unless you are a US citizen, a US permanent resident or hold a temporary work visa you will not be allowed to be employed and receive pay.

If you're a 2nd year student your best bet is to try and get a research elective where you will personally bear all the costs of travel, housing, etc. This will allow you to get some experience and make some contacts. After you have built up your CV, you can then try to get a paid research elective later on in your student career.


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## Natacha (Feb 19, 2006)

Oh ok. So I am a U.S. citizen so this would apply to me. Hey Rehan, do you know of any sites I can visit to gather some more information on this?


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

As far as I know, no one really hands out research electives. You can pay your way into a lot of clinical elective programs because most med schools expect you to do those as part of your basic requirements near you fourth or final year. Clinical electives are therefore openly offered throughout US hospitals and medical schools.

When it comes to research however, it's not required by anybody, and therefore you have to find them all on your own, and pay for all of your own costs. You may as well think of research electives as the same thing as "extracurriculars" on a college application. And since you're going to be doing research for someone on a very limited budget (as all research programs go), your chances of ever getting paid for a research elective are next to nil.


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## Doc_Ammara (May 2, 2006)

well....i have also heard that some students go frm pak to usa or england as clinical elcetives for a month or so...and they r also paid for it like stay and some stipement also(though travelling at ur own) .so if any body knows abt it,plz give me some websites or othr meanz to apply for that ...coz i dun know the procedure of how to apply for it.
Regards,


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## maryam786 (Jul 4, 2006)

salamz people........hey i really need to know when i need to apply for an elective in the US...anyone with an experiance ...i wanna know about a good university hospital..which will except pakistani med students......i wanna go next summers as in july 2007....anyone out there..plz help....and one more thing...am a 4th year student but seemz...am tired of med all of a sudden...need new incentives.....suffering from mid medschool syndrome...hehe


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## tauhid (Aug 15, 2006)

hey, rehan, im in the middle of applying for a research elective at Hopkins, but their application form requires some kind of HIPAA compliance training programme or something, i just wanted to ask u, whether u did tht or not, when u applied, because it says that its compulsory that u complete this training, in order to get a spot.


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Hey man, the HIPPA compliance training is something everyone does. First they give you a bit of reading material and at the end of it there's a short quiz to make sure you read it. It's really only about a 15 minute procedure and it's all done online. You don't have to worry about it until you get there. When you're going through your registration there on your first day, they'll even show you where you can take it right there in their office.

Nothing to worry about... Best of luck on the elective!


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## tauhid (Aug 15, 2006)

oh cool, i thought u had to give it online before u go there, in order to complete your application, coz thts what it says on the site, on the checklist of the application, but anyways thanx once again, cheers.


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## dieanotherday (Sep 23, 2008)

Hey guys. I am doing medicine from Karachi, Pakistan and I just recently passed my second year of MBBS. The thing is I really want to take an international elective in the Summer of 2009. But my seniors are divided on this, as they think its too early and a waste of money. Well I don't think finance is a problems long as I learn something relevant and useful. Plus, I'll be almost over with third year by June next year, so I will definitely have reached a significantly higher stage. So Rehan, and all you people, could you tell me when and where shall I apply. I am considering Concordia Hospital in Sydney and McGill. But I personally want to do perhaps a research elective from the US in the Summer of 2009. Could you guide me on this? And do you the fact that I have never travelled to US in the past is going to hinder my visa application or my application to the Hospital itself? And is the cost as high as my seniors make it sound to be?


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## [email protected] (Dec 19, 2007)

dieanotherday said:


> Hey guys. I am doing medicine from Karachi, Pakistan and I just recently passed my second year of MBBS. The thing is I really want to take an international elective in the Summer of 2009. But my seniors are divided on this, as they think its too early and a waste of money. Well I don't think finance is a problems long as I learn something relevant and useful. Plus, I'll be almost over with third year by June next year, so I will definitely have reached a significantly higher stage. So Rehan, and all you people, could you tell me when and where shall I apply. I am considering Concordia Hospital in Sydney and McGill. But I personally want to do perhaps a research elective from the US in the Summer of 2009. Could you guide me on this? And do you the fact that I have never travelled to US in the past is going to hinder my visa application or my application to the Hospital itself? And is the cost as high as my seniors make it sound to be?


I think going for research elective will not harm you as long as $ is not a problem for you! Infact it can do you a lot of good!! You have asked about going to Mcgill and Sydney universities, I think you should decide yourself where do you want to pursue you career because relevant experience either clinical or research in the field of your choice will best serve you if its done in the country where you want to do your post graduation.

Well most universities in the US do not have an official research elective program for international students unlike clinical electives. Most students arrange them by directly contacting the faculty in the US medical schools, you can do the same. Research elective does not only give you US research experience but also you make valuable contacts!! Some do manage to get some clinical exposure at the same time.

So definitely its worth going for. But it would be better if you first get some local research experience. Regarding your visa question, all of my friends got the visa for of electives, but it is always unpredictable sadly. Cost depends on several factors like state, university etc.

I hope this info is helpful


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## dieanotherday (Sep 23, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I think going for research elective will not harm you as long as $ is not a problem for you! Infact it can do you a lot of good!! You have asked about going to Mcgill and Sydney universities, I think you should decide yourself where do you want to pursue you career because relevant experience either clinical or research in the field of your choice will best serve you if its done in the country where you want to do your post graduation.
> 
> Well most universities in the US do not have an official research elective program for international students unlike clinical electives. Most students arrange them by directly contacting the faculty in the US medical schools, you can do the same. Research elective does not only give you US research experience but also you make valuable contacts!! Some do manage to get some clinical exposure at the same time.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot Faizan. I personally want to do it in the States, but just recently I've had seniors discouraging me that its going to be a burden financially. Yes, money isn't a problem but as long as its not some ridiculous amount that I wasn't aware of. I want to do my post-graduate in USA, and so I believe a research elective in USA (Perhaps John Hopkins where I plan on applying) would be helpful too. And how is a University or State going to affect my cost? Though if I still can't help it, I would settle for the one thats costly anyway since I really want to go ahead with it. 
Plus, you said I could make 'valuable' contacts there. Could you elaborate it a little. And one more thing. I've also been hearing this a lot lately that I shouldn't go for the Elective alone to US or Sydney because it becomes difficult there if you don't go with friends etc. Since most of my friends are applying to other countries/hospitals, I am pretty sure I'll have to be on my own. Though I don't personally think its a problem, but do you think it'll be difficult considering I haven't been to either States or Australia before.
Thanks.


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## dieanotherday (Sep 23, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I think going for research elective will not harm you as long as $ is not a problem for you! Infact it can do you a lot of good!! You have asked about going to Mcgill and Sydney universities, I think you should decide yourself where do you want to pursue you career because relevant experience either clinical or research in the field of your choice will best serve you if its done in the country where you want to do your post graduation.
> 
> Well most universities in the US do not have an official research elective program for international students unlike clinical electives. Most students arrange them by directly contacting the faculty in the US medical schools, you can do the same. Research elective does not only give you US research experience but also you make valuable contacts!! Some do manage to get some clinical exposure at the same time.
> 
> ...


Hey sorry for another quote but I just read in another thread what your wrote about the cost: 

Originally Posted by *Aurasatreya*  
_Hello, Rehan
I was interested in applying for Johns Hopkins for a clerkship...
Wanted to know if the clerkship as such is free or paid and other costs involved..just a rough estimate would do
Thank you in anticipation of your response.

Auras_
For 5 weeks of research elective, this is the least that you have to bear

Registration Fee: 250$
Health Insurance: 210$
Airfare: 1300-1500$
Accomodation: 500$
Other expeses: 300$

total:2700-3000$


Does these costs still hold true, I mean even today? So what do other expenses mean? Does it include food? I'm a little concerned about the whole Haram/Halal issue too. I honestly just want to make up my mind so I can concentrate on what disciple I want to take for the research amongst other things. I just feel really excited about it, just hope I get accepted somewhere within US. Research is something I really want to do!


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## Smeer (Jan 29, 2006)

Would anyone happen to know what the difference is between "research" and a "research elective"? I know that research elective implies getting some sort of school credit for the time you spend on the job, but lets say you're doing research with a certain faculty member at a university -- is that the same thing as doing a research elective or is there maybe an important difference between the two?


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

No difference. I only call it a 'research elective' in Pakistan. In the US it's just research.

Clinical electives are usually just called 'away rotations' over there.


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## rimzie (Mar 1, 2009)

So, if you do an elective in second or third year, and you get a letter of recommendation from the doctor you were under, that's still valid or whatever when you apply for residency right? I mean, it could be quite a substantial amount of time between doing an elective and applying for residency. I was just wondering if that makes a difference, whether such things expire or something...There's not some sort of limit on how old letters of recommendation can be, is there?


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## WANABEE (Jul 18, 2008)

I am in first year M.B.B.S and want to do research elective in Pakistan in summer 2009. I can find no place where i can do that in Pakistan. PIMS do have research electives but thats only for PostGrduates and not for M.B.B.S students. I really want to do research electives in General or Neuro Surgery. Even shifa does not allow the Students to do research electives untill they graduate. Shifa is offering me research electives only in Community Medicine. Should i do that or try for residency in surgery as i want to become a General or Neuro Surgeon in future INSHALLAH.I want especially Rehan or MastahRiz to answer.Thankyou


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Is going to another city or going abroad an option for you? AKU might let students participate in research electives, though I'm not 100% sure about that. If you don't mind spending your summer break abroad, then you can easily get a research elective at a number of places. If going abroad is not an option however, then I would recommend that you go ahead and participate in the community medicine project, as some sort of research is still better than nothing.


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## WANABEE (Jul 18, 2008)

Hello Rizwan, If have a query. If i go to USA in my third year in summer vacations for electives, is it possible to do both clinical and research electives simultaneously in the 5 to 6 weeks period? This will save time and money and i can also get both the clinical and research electives in my hand at the same time.


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

You certainly *can* do both a clinical and research elective in a 5-6 week period but understand that it's better to do a clinical elective. Any substantial research project that is really worth getting your name on will usually take months or even anywhere around a year, so helping out for five weeks won't really get you anything. One exception would be abstracts that are written without research papers, and are usually done in a matter of 2 or 3 months. If you work really hard then it's possible to accomplish enough to get your name on a publication in just five to six weeks.

If you have only 5 or 6 weeks, I'd recommend that you just go for a clinical elective and learn as much as possible. Study like crazy before you go and study non-stop while you're there. If you plan to do a cardiology elective, then make sure you know everything about basic sciences in regards to the field before you go, eg anatomy/physiology of the heart and its metabolism. (I can't stress this enough, it is a must for all elective periods.)

It'll be a much more rewarding experience, educationally and academically for your career than a short 5 week research stint.


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## WANABEE (Jul 18, 2008)

Rizwan INSHALLAH ill definitely go for clinical electives. But if you happen to visit the John Hopkins website you'll see that the only 3 Pakistanis who got residency in 2008 had achievements like,
1.Name published in journals for research electives(two or more times).
2.Two or more clinical electives
3.Great USMLE score(ofcourse)
3.Extra curricular certificates for e.g someone was good at swimming, someone was a great guitarist etc.
Thus, as the competition is getting tough day by day i was wondering that i should have atleast one research elective in my hand and my name published in a medical journal. But while doing M.B.B.S it seems literally impossible to take out more than 2 consecutive months for it. Even after M.B.B.S one can't give time to that as we have to take our USMLE examination.
Rizwan have you or Rehan ever got to do research elective and your names published? if yes how???


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

You're right competition is fierce, especially at a place like JHU. Research does count for more, but only if you get published and therein lies the problem. It's extremely hard to get published, and to complicate things further, it's even more difficult to get published on a paper of any substantial importance.

What I recommend is that you do clinical electives for now while you have time, since it'll help you learn a great deal, and take a year after graduation to assist in research projects. If you're interested in residency options like JHU, then a year after med school of research at JH would be the best way to achieve that goal. Doing a full year of research will give you the chance to not only get published but to get your name on the big research papers. Unfortunately, research takes a lot more time than we ever get in our summer/winter vacations.

Still, it's up to you-- if you want to concentrate on research starting now, then try to set up a research elective somewhere where you know what you'll be working on and will be able to complete in a matter of weeks or 2 months max.


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## WANABEE (Jul 18, 2008)

Rizwan i am very impressed by the efforts of both of you brothers to get residency in the future. Can you please tell me that so far how many research and clinical electives both you and Rehan have done so far.


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

As we normally go home for each summer/winter vacation, it's a little easier to sign up for electives. Rehan and I have both done about five electives over a span of 3 years.


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## MZ89 (Aug 24, 2009)

I'm a second year student of medicine and want to do residency in ophthalmology in US. So how many clinical electives should i do atleast to get residency in ophthalmology and what'll be the best time for me to do the electives (either 4or 5 year)? and can you please tell me some IMG friendly states for ophthalmology!


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Electives alone don't really mean anything, publications are what make a difference. You should focus on trying to do clinical electives as ophthalmology research is hard to find for only a month or two, unless it's some sort of a chart review or retrospective study.

In clinical electives you can at least impress the head of department (if you're lucky enough to do your elective with him) and get a strong letter of recommendation.

Clinical electives are something you should line up whenever you're able to spend at least a 4 week period. *Study before going, *or you won't impress anyone and your letter will make that obvious.


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## MZ89 (Aug 24, 2009)

Thanks Rizwan..


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## ayusharora (Jan 15, 2010)

could anyone clearify difference bw observershp, clerkship, research elective and clinical elective............

i'm in 4th sem(2nd proff), want to do RE @Johns Hopkins school of medicine for 1 month, in june or july 2010, how to proceed, plz help me.....


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## chaitanya (Mar 14, 2010)

hi.im in my final year mbbs.i wanto goto usa for doing electives for a month.is that possible for me?where can i find information on that


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## alveena (Dec 29, 2009)

HI im 3rd year student n i want to do elective in uk..so if you can help me about this.


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## iq101 (Apr 20, 2009)

MastahRiz said:


> As we normally go home for each summer/winter vacation, it's a little easier to sign up for electives. Rehan and I have both done about five electives over a span of 3 years.


Hi. I wanted to know that we can apply for electives in any of the five years of MBBS right?


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Yes you certainly can.


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## iq101 (Apr 20, 2009)

MastahRiz said:


> Yes you certainly can.


But first year students can only apply for research electives and not clinical ? Im sorry , I really dont know much about all this.


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Technically you can apply for either, any year of mbbs, but it would definitely be unwise to go to a clinical elective without knowing how to deal with patients at all-- something you won't learn till at least your 3rd year.

You're right that as a first and second year student, you should focus on doing research electives.


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## iq101 (Apr 20, 2009)

MastahRiz said:


> Yes you certainly can.


 Thanks !


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## iq101 (Apr 20, 2009)

I need help in finding universities offering research electives in the UK. Seems like US is more popular for them.
Appreciated.


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## cuteliz00 (May 9, 2010)

*what clinical electives should b applied for in the 3rd year?*

*Mod Edit: Read the forum rules to prevent further deletion of your posts. Thanks.
*


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## Ammara DMC (May 7, 2010)

MastahRiz said:


> Is going to another city or going abroad an option for you? AKU might let students participate in research electives, though I'm not 100% sure about that. If you don't mind spending your summer break abroad, then you can easily get a research elective at a number of places. If going abroad is not an option however, then I would recommend that you go ahead and participate in the community medicine project, as some sort of research is still better than nothing.


hey, i just took my first semester in my med school. I'm on a break these days. I really wanna do research or clinical electives somewhere too. I'm from Karachi. Going to another city for electives wouldn't be a problem at all as long as I learn something and it builds up my cv. There are so many doctors-to-be around.. competition's pretty tough. So I want to start planning from this stage. Can you please help me letting me know where i can do my electives from?
Thank you.

Yes, going abroad is an option. But I just don't know how to go about it.. How do I apply for electives abroad? Would universities be willing to take a freshman of med school with no research or clinical exposure?


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

At the very least you should be familiar with Anatomy, Physiology, and Biochemistry. Therefore, you should wait till at least second year to start research electives, and third/fourth year to start clinical electives.


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## Ammara DMC (May 7, 2010)

So how do I utilise my vacations in productive way? I'm done with first semester. I'm pretty familiar with physio, ana and biochem. What exactly you do in research electives, anyway? You already have a topic in your mind and you work on it during your electives, is that it?
I'm thinking of doing a research to increase my chances of a good match. My colleagues are already working on projects. Can you please guide me on how to go about it?
I'm thinking to present my work in 3rd Molecular Medicine and Drug Research In ICCS, University of Karachi in Jan, 2011. 
For more info about the mentioned symposium, www.iccs.edu


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## ras09 (Jun 27, 2010)

*Welcome to the forum- please read the general forum rules to prevent further deletion of your posts. Thanks.

-Rizwan.
*


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## ras09 (Jun 27, 2010)

You still have not read the forum rules. Next time, you get an infraction.-- Rizwan.


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## mihirkakara (Dec 9, 2010)

Hii there,

I am a 2nd year medical student from india.
I will be going to the US this summer 2011 for the purpose of greencard. I will have to be staying there for around 2 months. I want to do something productive in that time, and I'm planning on doing a research elective somewhere. I'm interested in neuroscience and cancer biology.

Can you please suggest good places, and more importantly, how to go about applying for the RE?

Thank you.


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## Tahseer (Dec 15, 2010)

Ammara DMC said:


> So how do I utilise my vacations in productive way? I'm done with first semester. I'm pretty familiar with physio, ana and biochem. What exactly you do in research electives, anyway? You already have a topic in your mind and you work on it during your electives, is that it?
> I'm thinking of doing a research to increase my chances of a good match. My colleagues are already working on projects. Can you please guide me on how to go about it?
> I'm thinking to present my work in 3rd Molecular Medicine and Drug Research In ICCS, University of Karachi in Jan, 2011.
> For more info about the mentioned symposium, Official Website of ICCBS Institutions


thanks ammara this info was really helpfull .... i am a freshman at DMC too.... just had my first module.... anyways i visited the site you mentioned... and am i bit confused... should i apply for this program... as i think it'll be time consuming and you know our uni schedule 8.30 am in the morning till 3.30 pm... and being a freshman would this be helpfull???


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## kaz_91 (Jul 30, 2010)

> As we normally go home for each summer/winter vacation, it's a little easier to sign up for electives. Rehan and I have both done about five electives over a span of 3 years.


i've been researching electives and most programs only accept final year students so i was wondering if you could provide names of some specific programs that will accept students in their second or 3rd year of med school....both for clinical and research electives. thanks. i am currently in the second year of medical school. i would really appreciate a reply form mastahriz or rehan!


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## MastahRiz (Jan 26, 2006)

Check out some of the other threads for electives. Thanks.


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## Maha Masood (Jun 28, 2012)

*Research elective*

Hey, where can I do a research elective in Karachi? I'm a first year student of MBBS and I want to spend my time doing something interesting in my summer vacations.


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## armaghan (Nov 13, 2014)

Hi,
i read one of your comments. you mentioned you have done a total of 5 electives in the space of 3 years. Can i ask how you've accomplished that? I've read people commenting they're in their 1st or 2nd or 3rd year and want to do electives or research etc. But isnt it till your 4th and 5th year that your allowed to go for electives abroad? not only that isn't it a pre requisite for most institutions that students have to be in their 4th or 5th year? I'm about to start my 1st year at Shifa International Medical College. And i aim to do post grade in USA like many of my seniors and do residency in the field of my choice InshaAllah. I know for that i need a great USMLE score, Research work and electives.
So please just give me a general outline of what i have to do. There is no guidance available and as a result Google or online forums are the best source for us students. I want to fully utilize my potential. Utilize my summers, utilize my free time. Take every chance i get. One user talked about research in community medicine in Shifa, i think thats a great option. Like you said better than nothing.
Hoping to hear from you soon.


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## locker_13 (Nov 7, 2011)

Asalamo Alaikum... Hope everyone's fine. I have a question....what exactly is a research elective? What does it involve? How will it help me? JazakAllahg


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## locker_13 (Nov 7, 2011)

Aga Khan university offers research electives


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## rosequartz (Jul 24, 2012)

locker_13 said:


> Asalamo Alaikum... Hope everyone's fine. I have a question....what exactly is a research elective? What does it involve? How will it help me? JazakAllah


Walikum as Salam,

From my limited knowledge, a research elective is a type of elective in which a student works with a faculty member (mentor) on one of their research projects. The research experience could include doing a literary review i.e. reading different papers on some topic and summarizing them and publishing your findings as a paper. It could include drafting a new protocol like how a doctor should treat patients or on anything of the sort. It could also include retrospective chart reviews or collecting data and analyzing it, or learning specific research procedures like how to operate PCR, make tissue cultures, or work on designing bio-markers for kidney disease or diabetes, studying the structure of an important bio-molecule, or doing research on the working mechanism of fast twitch or slow twitch muscles. The possibilities are endless. What you do in a research elective depends on what you're interested in what the professor is working on. 

And in order to do a research elective, you would first need to work on a proposal with your mentor and once that is approved, take part in the research with your mentor and then write a paper about your experience and findings, and hope for it to get published. Because a publication will look really wonderful on your CV. 

As for how it helps, well you learn new skills and it increases your knowledge and understanding of the concepts you've studied as you will actually be applying them and discovering something new. It also shows that you have research experience alongside clinical experience,and if you're fortunate enough to get published, you stand out of the crowd. It also helps make connections which could help in future clinical electives or residency placement. 

That's all right off the top of my head. Hope this helps and isn't confusing. 

Waiyyakum.


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## Batool111 (Nov 19, 2017)

I'm in first year of medical college. Can you please guide me about how I'm going to get research or clinical internships abroad.


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